.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[AlpineCarpetbagger]

A Sound of Thunder


Major points for those who know the reference without research.




P

For this we have to go back, back to the time when dinosaurs weren’t just confined to zoos.

 

[coleman]

That is somethin Gman!, props to a job well done! Ill gladly admit, I was 100% nay sayer when this thread started, but Iv since ( following the whole thread) have changed my thoughts.

I’m pretty married to a particular .375 for this season, but next season I’m super excited to trade in my 375(s) for a .223 for moose and bear, who knows, maybe mountain goat too. Very curious on the expiry time difference I will see between the two. I don’t care about meat loss, but I do care about a fast kill. From what I’m seeing, the expiry times with these small pills seem as quick, if not quicker then my experience with .375’s, which is quite a bit.

Plus, gives me a great excuse to buy another rifle .

Thanks for posting that fine bear!!

I knew ya would come around haha! Look forward to seeing the wood Rokstok it’s gonna go in!!

 

[Decker9]

I knew ya would come around haha! Look forward to seeing the wood Rokstok it’s gonna go in!!

Years ago I owed a savage precision carbine in .223, amazing trapline rifle, Iv kicked myself for years for selling it.

I shot a big wolf once with it, about 15’ away, 45gr vmax in the chest. The body cavity looked like a grenade went off inside, after skinned, it was a purple body, not the regular pink lol. I’m excited to have a reason to get back into a .223, especially if it passes my “see for myself”, as it would be a great setup for my recoil sensitive daughter.

The rock stock unfortunately, has no place in my safe lol. Fine lines only!!

 

[Elite]

Very interesting video of a 223 with match king at distances

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CMCctx]

I sure wish I'd known about this thread! I've been a .223 supporter for years and have caught a lot of flack from family and friends (I'd like to point out that it was unwarranted due to my 100% shot/kill rate.... which is probably just now jinxed).

Had I known that so many others were interested I would have photographed the most recent autopsy. Both lungs were spaghetti and the heart was not quite as devastated, but still impressive. bullet was stopped in the rear part of the far shoulder almost in the ribs. Shot was made at sub-100 yards and he didn't make it 10 afterward. I have also had surprisingly good success with Hornady Interlock 60 grain. Holds together well and (again, hopefully not to jinx it) expands reliably.

What's funny about this last trip was I brought a friend and I guess he thought I was joking when I said what I was bringing. We get out there and he (I thought at the time) joked that I could use his spare rifle if I wanted to. I replied that I'd grown up hunting this property and it was in my family for many years before I was even thought of, I "knowed what I brung". First morning I see this broken-tined buck for a brief moment but took too long to decide if I'd shoot. I sent a message to my buddy that a shooter was coming his way and where to look if he was going where I expected him to go. He saw but didn't get a shot. That evening he mentioned, again, that I could use the spare .243 he brought. Again, I declined. Next evening he shoots a doe that went by him the same way the buck did the morning prior. I was goofing with a granola bar and spooked her, but was able to get a quick text that another shooter was headed his way. I headed his way when shooting light expired and he confirmed he shot the doe with his .270 (ammo type unknown). we followed the blood for hours until it dried up completely, searched longer but were forced to admit defeat. I'll be damned if I didn't see that doe the very next morning, being pursued by this same buck. Obviously one caliber produced, and one didn't. I'll let y'all decide.

I can't dump it all on the .270. This guy is a solid hunter and shooter. Just one of those off times, I think it was. I still give him shit for it, though.

Kicking myself for not knowing about this thread years ago. I would have documented by escapades much more thoroughly.

 

[ORJoe]

Look what you monsters did!


And now begins cheat sheet chapter two

They did it! The maniacs did it!
Coastal. Alaskan. Brown. Bear.
He did it twice

Walrus now. Fkin weirdos
Another Brown bear, now testing the limits of "Wut about a marginal shot?"

New animals are slow, here's a bullet cutaway pic

Pig skull cutaway pics. Shots with 22LR and 77 TMK on different pigs

Moose, 80gr ELD

New season starts on page 442
Plus there's a Youtube video with some arguments and memes starting on page 441

 

[ElPollo]

I sure wish I'd known about this thread! I've been a .223 supporter for years and have caught a lot of flack from family and friends (I'd like to point out that it was unwarranted due to my 100% shot/kill rate.... which is probably just now jinxed).

Had I known that so many others were interested I would have photographed the most recent autopsy. Both lungs were spaghetti and the heart was not quite as devastated, but still impressive. bullet was stopped in the rear part of the far shoulder almost in the ribs. Shot was made at sub-100 yards and he didn't make it 10 afterward. I have also had surprisingly good success with Hornady Interlock 60 grain. Holds together well and (again, hopefully not to jinx it) expands reliably.

What's funny about this last trip was I brought a friend and I guess he thought I was joking when I said what I was bringing. We get out there and he (I thought at the time) joked that I could use his spare rifle if I wanted to. I replied that I'd grown up hunting this property and it was in my family for many years before I was even thought of, I "knowed what I brung". First morning I see this broken-tined buck for a brief moment but took too long to decide if I'd shoot. I sent a message to my buddy that a shooter was coming his way and where to look if he was going where I expected him to go. He saw but didn't get a shot. That evening he mentioned, again, that I could use the spare .243 he brought. Again, I declined. Next evening he shoots a doe that went by him the same way the buck did the morning prior. I was goofing with a granola bar and spooked her, but was able to get a quick text that another shooter was headed his way. I headed his way when shooting light expired and he confirmed he shot the doe with his .270 (ammo type unknown). we followed the blood for hours until it dried up completely, searched longer but were forced to admit defeat. I'll be damned if I didn't see that doe the very next morning, being pursued by this same buck. Obviously one caliber produced, and one didn't. I'll let y'all decide.

I can't dump it all on the .270. This guy is a solid hunter and shooter. Just one of those off times, I think it was. I still give him shit for it, though.

Kicking myself for not knowing about this thread years ago. I would have documented by escapades much more thoroughly.

View attachment 722808View attachment 722809

What bullets are you using?

 

[bubba580]

Yeah. Everything thing I’ve shot with TMK’s has been absolutely wrecked when I open them up and look inside. I have no doubt that it’s dead. In open country I probably would have watched it drop within 50-60 yards… but where I am, 50-60 yards in thick cover can make stuff really hard to find. The few animals that I shot that actually ran have bled pretty good.. but it seems like t

Where on the body are you shooting them at for most of them to be drt?

According to most reports in this thread, and my own experiences as well, the majority of deer and pigs hit by the 77 grain tmk with typical heart/lung shots run about 10-40 yards before expiring, which is of course excellent.

I'm not doubting you at all, just curious about shot placement.

 

[CMCctx]

What bullets are you using?

77gr Sierra TMK and Hornady InterLock 60gr. I've used others in the past that worked decently well, but the more I dug into the caliber I kept moving on to the incremental steps up. I have the utmost faith in both projectiles, but my sample size is limited to Whitetail, pigs, Axis, Fallow, and Aoudad. No moose or bear where I hunt, and haven't had the chance on an elk.

 

[yeti12]

77gr Sierra TMK and Hornady InterLock 60gr. I've used others in the past that worked decently well, but the more I dug into the caliber I kept moving on to the incremental steps up. I have the utmost faith in both projectiles, but my sample size is limited to Whitetail, pigs, Axis, Fallow, and Aoudad. No moose or bear where I hunt, and haven't had the chance on an elk.

You are using a interlock after reading and participating here?

 

[CMCctx]

You are using a interlock after reading and participating here?

Seeing as how my very first post outlined that I just found this thread (this site for that matter) two months ago, I'm not sure how to answer that question. I did wait to post until I read through the whole thread.

I guess if you're really ready to have your mind blown: I'll continue to use both unless I find evidence that one of them is not fit for use. This thread is obviously full of evidence that the 77gr TMK is fit for duty, which I'm also supportive of and if I had to put a ratio on my use it's probably 80/20 in favor of the TMK. In my (admittedly small sample size, don't recall offhand anyone posting about this projectile by name) first hand experience, inside of 100 yards the InterLock 60gr has been 100% successful, and truth be told I haven't used it past that (thick woods in Breckenridge, TX) but wouldn't feel bad about pushing it a little further (more open spaces in Kerrville, TX).

 

[Nomosendero]

10-12 years ago, pre 77TMK for me, I loaded the 60 Hor. soft point for my Grandkids. I would not let them shoot over 125 yards or so. One shot kills each time, not the devastation of a TMK but good performance.

 

[Tahr]

If people have read this thread and remain blinkered to the possibility of other projectiles being capable of killing animals as dead as the ones shot with the 77TMK they really have lost their objectivity.

 

[Axlrod]

If people have read this thread and remain blinkered to the possibility of other projectiles being capable of killing animals as dead as the ones shot with the 77TMK they really have lost their objectivity.

Well I don't really know what blinkered means. But the 77 TMK works very well, has been available lately, and shoots good. So i don't have any reason to buy/test/shoot anything else in .224. I'm certain there are others, but why bother?

 

[Antares]

Blinkered = wearing blinkers (aka blinders)

I agree with @Tahr, I love this thread/concept but I've never shot a 77 TMK in my life; it's 73 ELDMs for me because that's what's readily available in my area.

 

[CMCctx]

Blinkered = wearing blinkers (aka blinders)

I agree with @Tahr, I love this thread/concept but I've never shot a 77 TMK in my life; it's 73 ELDMs for me because that's what's readily available in my area.

I just found some more Black Hills 77gr TMK yesterday, but it would be nice to have a regular, reliable source! Never used ELDMs but after reading this thread I've been tempted to try them. Two of my rifles don't group super well with BH TMK.

 

[ElPollo]

If people have read this thread and remain blinkered to the possibility of other projectiles being capable of killing animals as dead as the ones shot with the 77TMK they really have lost their objectivity.

I actually think this thread has discussed a lot of different bullets for the 223. Of the top of my head, the ones I can think of are ELDM, ELDX, Bergers, Gold Dots, TTSX, DRT, Federal Fusion, AAC Black Tips, and Winchester power points. I don’t think anyone has said any of these bullets won’t kill if they are put in the right place. The discussion has been really focused on which of these maximize wound channels and TMKs, ELDM, and ELDX seem to be the leaders in that. Fusions and Gold Dots may perform similarly for wound channels, but have lower BCs. Initial comments on the AAC Black Tips suggest they may be similar to TMK and ELDM. The few responses on the DRT 79 gr suggest that they are the top tier among non-lead options. I tend to look at this thread to get intel on how different bullets might function on game.

 

[turbo406]

Forgive me if this was already answered as I am only about 39 pages in but gotta ask before it slips my mind. Form any info on the 80 eldm or eldx as compared to the 77 TMK? The eldx has promise of being a 77 TMK substitute that you can actually get your hands on.

 

[Luke S]

The problem with an 80 gr. ELDM/ELDX for some people is you can't load it to AR length mags. I tried with a 75 gr.and it didn't work.
Do I give up much with a 73 gr. ELDM? I can't remember much about them but I have loaded ammo for those and a very limited supply of TMK handloads.

 

[turbo406]

The problem with an 80 gr. ELDM/ELDX for some people is you can't load it to AR length mags. I tried with a 75 gr.and it didn't work.
Do I give up much with a 73 gr. ELDM? I can't remember much about them but I have loaded ammo for those and a very limited supply of TMK handloads.

Thats not the end of the world for me, I am going to by running them in tikka 223 and 22 250. Not really opposed if they shoot to changing out to an aics or a longer tikka style mag if it runs in the 223.