.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[plebe]

We’re saying more or less the same thing even if I phrased it poorly. All the tests are 1 bullet or one group, all say results are going to be erratic because you hit different twigs every time, and all say “dont shoot thru brush”. Unfortunately shooting through a LOT of brush—it may not be as thick as what some picture all the time, but shooting through tiny windows in a wall of brush many yards thick would not be at all an exaggeration—is as normal as can be in some places. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, sometimes the bullet actually makes it through the window, but its never “controlled” enough to say why.

Photos for humor, not to make any point. Fwiw both were 250grain 45cal copper monos (barnes t-ez) fired from a muzzleloader at 45-70ish velocity, and neither connected with the deer on the other side. Neither is “brush” and neither was fired “through brush” intentionally, but it seemed a good time to drag them out.

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I don’t have a picture of the tree, but I saw a buck killed by a 30-06 where the bullet passed through a trunk sized about between what’s in your pictures. The shot was probably 50yds with the deer 10 feet or so behind the trunk struck by the bullet. Can’t remember if it was a hardwood or softwood. I know it’s totally anecdotal but I was pretty amazed. I don’t plan to shoot through trees and didn’t run out and buy a 30-06 or anything.

Nonetheless, I’m interested in what science has to say about deflection. It’s a hunting reality for my situation, and while the deltas might not be worth pursuing, physics always does it’s part. I wish there was more data.

 

[plebe]

Chupacabras and T-Rexes, lol.

 

[Elmer J. Fudd]

223 on walrus


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At this point we have to ask if the blood in the water is bait for Jaws

 

[Shraggs]

Or shamu…

 

[ElPollo]

Or shamu…

Moby Dick?

 

[SouthPaw]

Godzilla.

 

[Maverick1]

An arrow.

Good to see you finally come around!

 

[Thegman]

I don’t have a picture of the tree, but I saw a buck killed by a 30-06 where the bullet passed through a trunk sized about between what’s in your pictures. The shot was probably 50yds with the deer 10 feet or so behind the trunk struck by the bullet. Can’t remember if it was a hardwood or softwood. I know it’s totally anecdotal but I was pretty amazed. I don’t plan to shoot through trees and didn’t run out and buy a 30-06 or anything.

Nonetheless, I’m interested in what science has to say about deflection. It’s a hunting reality for my situation, and while the deltas might not be worth pursuing, physics always does it’s part. I wish there was more data.

A few years ago on Kodiak, I called in a decent 3x3. It was in the alders, but I had a wide and open lane.

When he was about 50 yards I shot center of chest. Tikka 30-06 w/150 ETips. Nothing...wtf?

Fortunately, for a hunter like me, Sitka Blacktails are kinda dumb. He pauses, probably thinking "wtf?" as well, but then continues walking to me. Second shot worked. I found a single small alder branch that had been clipped by the first shot and at least I felt better about my shooting.

As I said earlier, I've seen plenty of tracers take an instant, sharp 60° turn, usually down to the right, when shooting through brush and twigs. It doesn't take much.

Most do make it through unscathed, but just know that shooting through any brush is, literally, a crap shoot.

 

[Thegman]

A 223 w/77 tmk, specifically have taken oddles if big game - pigs, deer and elk, one elk at 803 yards by Form of course.

Thegman takes the holy grail threshold of “enough” gun for general big game by taking a medium grizzly with a not ideal shot and it drops dead in 50 yards… yet questions of ethics exist about the lack of lethality due to low ft pounds of energy.

Could pnwgator, form, thegman shoot the next level?

I saw on tv this island, it has dinosaurs - I’m think a 12 ton t-Rex. Would this get the community thinking…

Thoughts?

IDK, lizards are tough to kill quickly, 12 ton ones are probably especially tough to kill quickly. From what I've heard, you want to hit them 1/3 of the way above those little arms.


Might be a long tracking job with no blood, but at least there should be big tracks to follow. You might need my dog.

Until that happens, the next project is a full frontal chest shot bear, but unfortunately this will have to be a black one, at least until after June 30th. I'm pretty confident of the outcome.

 

[pbroski]

IDK, lizards are tough to kill quickly, 12 ton ones are probably especially tough to kill quickly. From what I've heard, you want to hit them 1/3 of the way above those little arms.
View attachment 720243

Might be a long tracking job with no blood, but at least there should be big tracks to follow. You might need my dog.

Until that happens, the next project is a full frontal chest shot bear, but unfortunately this will have to be a black one, at least until after June 30th. I'm pretty confident of the outcome.

Depending on the angle, a shot to the neck vertebrae, spine, or hip, with a large caliber rifle loaded with solids is what I would do. That should drop it for good. Then a shot to the lungs to finish it.

 

[JBradley500]

I like to give 'em the ol' Pangaea heart shot.

 

[ElPollo]

IDK, lizards are tough to kill quickly, 12 ton ones are probably especially tough to kill quickly. From what I've heard, you want to hit them 1/3 of the way above those little arms.
View attachment 720243

Might be a long tracking job with no blood, but at least there should be big tracks to follow. You might need my dog.

Until that happens, the next project is a full frontal chest shot bear, but unfortunately this will have to be a black one, at least until after June 30th. I'm pretty confident of the outcome.

Man, the backstraps on that thing look fricken huge. I’m in, but we are going to need a big crew to pack it out.

 

[eric1115]

IDK, lizards are tough to kill quickly, 12 ton ones are probably especially tough to kill quickly. From what I've heard, you want to hit them 1/3 of the way above those little arms.
View attachment 720243

Might be a long tracking job with no blood, but at least there should be big tracks to follow. You might need my dog.

Until that happens, the next project is a full frontal chest shot bear, but unfortunately this will have to be a black one, at least until after June 30th. I'm pretty confident of the outcome.

Good news is that the "but the shoulder!" crowd won't have a whole lot to squawk about. T-Rex humerus and shoulder look pretty unintimidating.

 

[Shraggs]

IDK, lizards are tough to kill quickly, 12 ton ones are probably especially tough to kill quickly. From what I've heard, you want to hit them 1/3 of the way above those little arms.
View attachment 720243

Might be a long tracking job with no blood, but at least there should be big tracks to follow. You might need my dog.

Until that happens, the next project is a full frontal chest shot bear, but unfortunately this will have to be a black one, at least until after June 30th. I'm pretty confident of the outcome.

Gold star on the homework!

Lungs above heart is interesting, need a good windage call or nice brain hit. But how thick is its chest compared to a bear? This might be the perfect proof the 223/77 can penetrate a skull!

Man, the backstraps on that thing look fricken huge. I’m in, but we are going to need a big crew to pack it out.

Yes i kinda missed the tons of meat to pack out! Think we need the whole 223/77 Clan for this job, hope Ryan can get a boat big enough... Maybe the new Disney boat is available for a week and the Clan.

Depending on the angle, a shot to the neck vertebrae, spine, or hip, with a large caliber rifle loaded with solids is what I would do. That should drop it for good. Then a shot to the lungs to finish it.

Sorry friend, this opportunity is exclusively for the 223/77 Clan.

 

[ElPollo]

Sorry friend, this opportunity is exclusively for the 223/77 Clan.

When did we start excluding and discriminating? I am okay with someone who defines their pronouns as 375 H&H.

 

[canyonhunter47]

 

[roosiebull]

I did a similar thing with a 375 Ruger before I knew better and never found the bear.

Did you get a bigger gun since that? Sounds like you just needed more shock

 

[roosiebull]

IDK, I've had exactly the same experience with 308 and 30-06 on bears. Didn't seem to offer any wiggle room.

Like I say about bears: Hit em right, and they're not tough, hit em wrong, and they are.
Like pointed out above, I've found it surprisingly easy to hit them wrong, especially when you've been shooting deer and other cervids for years.

Can’t get more accurate than this, you are correct

 

[roosiebull]

I'm not sure that's a fair ask anymore. When it was sub 200 pages it was fair, but even that was a homework assignment most wouldn't have time for. I'm lucky I read it when i did. Now, it's at least 150 pages of reloading/ammo search/rifle selection/off topic drivel.

If there was a sticky post with the updated table of content, 100 pages of necropsy and kill photos/data, and maybe three or four redundant arguments by different fng/dissenters, that would be a fair assignment. Just enough to be like, "here's the data, here's photographs of proof, here's 5 people who already made the same argument you think might be new."

Tons of great info in here, but no way I'd read it start to finish at 360+ pages.

Why should anyone take the time to do that? If you want the information, read the thread… nobody is trying to convert anyone to shooting a 223 at big game, this thread is a huge collaboration of information that crumbles all of the fuddlore, I don’t care if anyone reads it, it’s accessible and great information for those willing to

People can continue to live by misconceptions, and most will, but if you want to understand ballistics and projectile choices better, there is a ton of golden information in this thread… if you think the 223 is a marginal cartridge at this point, you have a fairly large misunderstanding of both… doesn’t effect anyone but yourself and keeps some unintended humor in this thread when people chime in

 

[Big_wals]

View attachment 720295

This is gold. Heres an extra thumbs up since I can only do one on your actual post