.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Deere_Man]

It’s probably a typo. It looks more like a black tip AMAX than a VMAX. It actually looks like a .224 SST.

 

[Taudisio]

It doesn’t look like a Vmax. Here is a cross section Jboomhauer did on Snipers Hide:


View attachment 773931

It looks identical to the vmax to me, just has a boat tail and extra weight.

 

[Big_wals]

It looks identical to the vmax to me, just has a boat tail and extra weight.

That’s what it looks like to me to. Jboomhauer measured the jacket thickness on the 55 vmax and the 75 sabre, it’s only a 0.0002” difference. Aac says its a vmax, I have no reason to not believe them.

 

[Taudisio]

That’s what it looks like to me to. Jboomhauer measured the jacket thickness on the 55 vmax and the 75 sabre, it’s only a 0.0002” difference. Aac says its a vmax, I have no reason to not believe them.

I’d love to see how he measured .0002”!

 

[Cactus kid]

Ive followed this thread for a while, and i am curious on frontal shots with .223 tmks. Any experince?

 

[Deere_Man]

I just spoke to Shannon in the reloading tech support group at Hornady and he says that they manufacture the bullet for AAC and that it is a unique design that is meant to do exactly what the description suggests on the website:

“Our Sabre Blade Black Tip bullets are designed, Developed With, & Manufactured By Hornady for maximum expansion and weight retention upon impact.”

 

[Tahr]

Ive followed this thread for a while, and i am curious on frontal shots with .223 tmks. Any experince?

No problem at all. Adequate penetration. With frontal shots an understanding of the animals anatomy is as important as the bullet selected. A low chest shot with the bullet striking above the heart and not high enough to destroy the lungs can result in a runner.

Here: I shot this with a 77TMK front on

 

[Hoosker Doo]

No problem at all. Adequate penetration. With frontal shots an understanding of the animals anatomy is as important as the bullet selected. A low chest shot with the bullet striking above the heart and not high enough to destroy the lungs can result in a runner.

Here: I shot this with a 77TMK front on

I bought the upgraded version of that scope thanks to you and these videos you keep posting. The DNT Thermnight that also throws in thermal as well. So, thank you haha.

 

[4090Sharps]

I’d love to see how he measured .0002”!

Presumably melt or dissolve the lead and measure the wall thickness with a ball micrometer that measures to .0001”. It would be pretty simple.

 

[Taudisio]

Presumably melt or dissolve the lead and measure the wall thickness with a ball micrometer that measures to .0001”. It would be pretty simple.

I’m doubtful.

If he did, I’d be curious if he took a sample of 10 for the exact same bullet/lot number and he couldn’t find the same, 1/15th of a hair, difference between them.

 

[The Guide]

I’m doubtful.

If he did, I’d be curious if he took a sample of 10 for the exact same bullet/lot number and he couldn’t find the same, 1/15th of a hair, difference between them.

I doubt that bullet diameter is verified within 0.0002 let alone the cup thickness.

Jay

 

[Big_wals]

I’m doubtful.

If he did, I’d be curious if he took a sample of 10 for the exact same bullet/lot number and he couldn’t find the same, 1/15th of a hair, difference between them.

Nope, pretty sure he only measured one of each. With an “optical Comparator”.

 

[Taudisio]

Nope, pretty sure he only measured one of each. With an “optical Comparator”.

I doubt that bullet diameter is verified within 0.0002 let alone the cup thickness.

Jay

I think we all agree they are the same construction as the v-max, just heavier/longer with a boat tail is where we are going with this.

Which is a great thing, making it a “heavy for caliber, expanding, tipped bullet” according to the results here and @Formidilosus recommendations. Bonus is the price of them for more practice per $ for the non-reloader.

 

[Pharmseller]

One more data point, a young Mule deer forky yesterday. 75 gr ELDM at 2915 mv.

No necropsy as I shot him close to dusk and I was flying solo. Not a lot of time to gut, drag, get to camp, hang/skin/etc. before full dark.

I was set up for 500 yards but of course he showed up at 80 yards, far to the right of my position picture. He saw me move and I rushed the shot a bit, hitting high. Took out the spine so he dropped on the spot but both lungs were shredded also. I might find bullet fragments when I butcher.

Overwatch





As he lay.





Prior to gutting





Interesting palmation of his horns.






P

 

[4090Sharps]

Nope, pretty sure he only measured one of each. With an “optical Comparator”.

I was thinking like a poor without access to the good stuff!

 

[Poe]

In general, so far. 10’ish inches of penetration if it hits major bone at high impact velocities.

Just curious how many inches of penetration you typically see with the 73eldm. I know you had previously stated it didn’t go as deep as the TMK but just curious how much less. Hopefully in a month or so I can test them on something bigger than coyotes

 

[The Guide]

Just curious how many inches of penetration you typically see with the 73eldm. I know you had previously stated it didn’t go as deep as the TMK but just curious how much less. Hopefully in a month or so I can test them on something bigger than coyotes

I wouldn't think much less but less. I had one deer that was a complete pass through (no bone on entrance and centered a rib on exit @ close to 250 yards and another that hit the ball of the shoulder joint and still made it into the body and through the heart. These are the only 2 we have taken with the 73gr ELDM.

Jay

 

[bearcreekbandit]

Tyler Freel shot his moose this year with a 22 ARC and 88 ELDm. He's doing good work bringing some of these ideas that run contrary to conventional wisdom to the masses with outdoor life.

I will have a talk through video on this on OL’s YouTube and it’s gonna be a good point of reference to come. My 20” gas gun was giving 2695fps with the factory Hornady 88s and I shot the moose 3 times (which was a mistake, I only should have shot once, but hey).
First shot hit middle of a rib, tore off portion of near lung lobe and punched baseball-sized hole through middle of lungs, ending up in offside lung.
Second shot was running follow-up, hit in rear of hind quarter. After about an inch, put a racquetball sized wound channel about 10” to the femur and shattered it.
Third shot must have hit a twig and tumbled, impacted a couple inches from first shot, tore off lower near lobe of the lung, exited offside lung about size of a golf ball, and recovered bullet in off shoulder against scapula. Bullet did not expand, but appears to have keyholed into the moose. Still pretty impressive and would have exited a deer.
Three shots were fired in about 5.5 seconds and moose went down 40 seconds and 20ish yards after first shot.

 

[KHntr]

I usually shoot through ribs, lungs/heart, but on this last, sample of one, bear, hitting a bunch of bone, it seemed like there might have been more penetration(???). Have you seen anything like that?

Hmm. Not sure to be honest. I’m a dedicated shoulder shooter on everything, either punching the onside or aiming for the offside via exit. The only shot I’ve had that was just ribs was the moose last year 2nd round, and that exited.

 

[sierracharlie338]

I will have a talk through video on this on OL’s YouTube and it’s gonna be a good point of reference to come. My 20” gas gun was giving 2695fps with the factory Hornady 88s and I shot the moose 3 times (which was a mistake, I only should have shot once, but hey).
First shot hit middle of a rib, tore off portion of near lung lobe and punched baseball-sized hole through middle of lungs, ending up in offside lung.
Second shot was running follow-up, hit in rear of hind quarter. After about an inch, put a racquetball sized wound channel about 10” to the femur and shattered it.
Third shot must have hit a twig and tumbled, impacted a couple inches from first shot, tore off lower near lobe of the lung, exited offside lung about size of a golf ball, and recovered bullet in off shoulder against scapula. Bullet did not expand, but appears to have keyholed into the moose. Still pretty impressive and would have exited a deer.
Three shots were fired in about 5.5 seconds and moose went down 40 seconds and 20ish yards after first shot.

That looks like some quality damage!