.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Thegman]

Follow up to the original autopsy after butchering last week.
First shot entered just inside the point of the onside shoulder (as per the field pic) and exited at the last rib.
Second shot entered a couple of inches back from the trailing edge of the onside shoulder and exited through the offside shoulder, just catching the edge of the scapula. Wound channels after a 10 day hang in the cooler were 2.5”+ in the muscle tissue. Wounds in rib cage with supporting bone structure were 1.5”.

This combo has to vie for the Most Efficient Killer prize. What was the approximate penetration of the 88s?

 

[Thegman]

If you guys want some good ol fudd lore and entertainment from some uneducated folks then you'll enjoy this video.

Watched this last night and my wife said the one guy is too squishy to take seriously.

I really have to admit, this is probably his best video ever. I was literally laughing out loud while watching it.

It was as funny as an episode of The Office with Dwight and Michael being interviewed about hunting with a 223.

 

[Blurred]

Well mainly due to ease of placement.


However, when you get to heavy for caliber bullets that fragment, there’s simply more bullet to fragment. A 77gr bullet in 30cal of like construction will penetrate about 6-8 inches at same velocity. A 77gr .224 bullet like the TMK penetrates 16-20 inches. People go the wrong way with “marginal” rounds- they think because it’s small that they need a super tough, deep penetrating bullet. All that does is create narrow wounds that take more time for the animal to succumb. A heavy, rapidly fragmenting bullet creates a much wider wound, while still having enough bullet to penetrate.

Hello Form. I've listened to your pod with the Exo guys for literally 10x. You confirm what I've always considered logical for so many years as a bowhunter. I live in Gunnison, Colorado...so legally I can't use less than 243 so I'm going to build a 6 creed. Anyway, for now, I've taken my Sig Cross 308 from heavy for caliber (178 eld-x) to a 125g tmk.....recoil feels about half and It's shooting sub moa @200 yards. I'll definitely use this setup on my mule deer tag...but have also considered it on my elk tag. The only inconsistency from what you suggest is that I'm not using a "heavy for caliber" round. I load the 125g tmk (and sometimes 125g sst) with 47.0 grains of IMR 4895 which gets me around 2900 FPS. I will not hunt with it beyond 500 yards. My question is, have you ever experimented with a similar setup? Do you think penetration is sufficient for such a "light for caliber" projectile when it comes to Elk? Thanks for everything you've done in this industry.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

“Trying to hunt at them”

That video is gold.

“The percentages” , yet literally talking out their backsides and using no data.

“77 TMK, I feel if your going to do this, it’s probably one of the worst match bullets”

 

[pbroski]

Those guys are armchair experts. Probably never been in the backcountry.

 

[BigNate]

Bummer that the video is getting so much traffic it'll probably help them.

I'm sure they mean well. But Hopefull Ballistics doesn't understand ballistics at all, and neither does the host.

 

[Poe]

I know it’s not large game but I got a chance to finally try out the new to me tikka and the 73gr eldm. Shot was around 100 yards and actually pushed part of the lungs out the exit hole. Hoping to try this out on white tails this season aswell as a bunch more coyotes. I will be splitting my coyote calling up between the tikka with the 73’s and my semi auto .223 shooting Speer 52gr HP’s and 60gr vmax

 

[Gettincloser]

I know it’s not large game but I got a chance to finally try out the new to me tikka and the 73gr eldm. Shot was around 100 yards and actually pushed part of the lungs out the exit hole. Hoping to try this out on white tails this season aswell as a bunch more coyotes. I will be splitting my coyote calling up between the tikka with the 73’s and my semi auto .223 shooting Speer 52gr HP’s and 60gr vmax

Every hunt is a coyote hunt if one shows up!

I have been waiting on a big buck to come and and seen a coyote... I instantly stop deer hunting and start coyote hunting! Every time!

 

[IDHoundsman]

I know it’s not large game but I got a chance to finally try out the new to me tikka and the 73gr eldm. Shot was around 100 yards and actually pushed part of the lungs out the exit hole. Hoping to try this out on white tails this season aswell as a bunch more coyotes. I will be splitting my coyote calling up between the tikka with the 73’s and my semi auto .223 shooting Speer 52gr HP’s and 60gr vmax

Hell yeah! Looks like the coyotes I’ve whacked with the 73 ELDM out to 493 yards.

 

[BLJ]

Every hunt is a coyote hunt if one shows up!

I have been waiting on a big buck to come and and seen a coyote... I instantly stop deer hunting and start coyote hunting! Every time!

Fact.

 

[ChrisAU]

22CM 291 yards, had just stood up out of his bed or was about to lay down. One poorly placed 75 gr ELDM broke his front left humerus clean in two just below the joint with the scapula and entered low in his chest. No damage to heart but lower right lung was shredded. No exits. This shot knocked him down into his bed where he laid for a few seconds and appeared very dead. However, he did stagger back to his feet and took a couple steps in the sage brush immediately surrounding him. 2nd shot tore through his neck and blew a baseball size wound out the back. That was lights out of course. Died about 10 feet from his bed.

 

[KHntr]

This combo has to vie for the Most Efficient Killer prize. What was the approximate penetration of the 88s?

On last years moose (170 yards), a mule deer (400 yards), this years elk (109 yards), I’m seeing about 3 feet + of penetration.
To be fair, exits are small, and would appear to be just a piece of the core. On the other hand, the ones we’ve caught have been jacket and core together, but separated.

 

[Thegman]

On last years moose (170 yards), a mule deer (400 yards), this years elk (109 yards), I’m seeing about 3 feet + of penetration.
To be fair, exits are small, and would appear to be just a piece of the core. On the other hand, the ones we’ve caught have been jacket and core together, but separated.

I usually shoot through ribs, lungs/heart, but on this last, sample of one, bear, hitting a bunch of bone, it seemed like there might have been more penetration(???). Have you seen anything like that?

 

[primarchtimmy]

I know it’s not large game but I got a chance to finally try out the new to me tikka and the 73gr eldm. Shot was around 100 yards and actually pushed part of the lungs out the exit hole. Hoping to try this out on white tails this season aswell as a bunch more coyotes. I will be splitting my coyote calling up between the tikka with the 73’s and my semi auto .223 shooting Speer 52gr HP’s and 60gr vmax

Fiochi 40 VMAX works incredible. I found it better than the 50 VMAX out of a 1:8 twist. I'll do some grouping but it was very impressive out to 100

 

[ElPollo]

UPS just dropped this off. View attachment 772452

I shot AAC 77 gr TMK stuff today. Averaged 2680 fps out of an 18” Tikka barrel with a suppressor. That’s about 80 fps slower than the Black Hills TMK. I shot a 20 round group with it at 100, prone off a backpack, a Molinator, and my bino harness that was right at 1.6”. I think that is pretty respectable. It hits center and 0.1 Mils lower than my Black Hills. Shot it on steel after that at 350 to 630. I’m not unhappy with that for $0.80 per round. I shot about 150 rounds of it today.

 

[Tahr]

I processed the larger of the 2 deer (above) today.
As said the bullet was a 60 grn Hammer Hunter at 3280fps from a 20" barrel .223, the range was about 200 yards and she was quartering towards me. The bullet struck her through the bottom joint of her leading shoulder. It split the heart. Impact velocity was 2600fps.

Simply posting this to show a different perspective and to add to the evidence that the .223 is very effective on deer, especially where there is adequate penetration combined with fragmentation.

This pic is of the inside of the shoulder (nothing was recoverable really).


This pic is looking into the body cavity at the entry through the ribs inside the shoulder. You can also see shed petal damage too.



And here is the shank that I found in the off side flank just under the skin. They are designed to shed their petals like this.

 

[sierracharlie338]

I processed the larger of the 2 deer (above) today.
As said the bullet was a 60 grn Hammer Hunter at 3280fps from a 20" barrel .223, the range was about 200 yards and she was quartering towards me. The bullet struck her through the bottom joint of her leading shoulder. It split the heart. Impact velocity was 2600fps.

Simply posting this to show a different perspective and to add to the evidence that the .223 is very effective on deer, especially where there is adequate penetration combined with fragmentation.

This pic is of the inside of the shoulder (nothing was recoverable really).


This pic is looking into the body cavity at the entry through the ribs inside the shoulder. You can also see shed petal damage too.



And here is the shank that I found in the off side flank just under the skin. They are designed to shed their petals like this.

Nice work thanks for sharing that!

 

[Reddish]

I usually shoot through ribs, lungs/heart, but on this last, sample of one, bear, hitting a bunch of bone, it seemed like there might have been more penetration(???). Have you seen anything like that?

There’s probably a more scientific explanation, but usually soft tissue and organs cause rapid expansion of a bullet. I’ve had the same experience of hitting bone on entry and it seems to penetrate farther. Guessing it’s bc the bullet doesn’t expand the same as it would in soft tissue.

 

[Salty Guerrilla]

22CM 291 yards, had just stood up out of his bed or was about to lay down. One poorly placed 75 gr ELDM broke his front left humerus clean in two just below the joint with the scapula and entered low in his chest. No damage to heart but lower right lung was shredded. No exits. This shot knocked him down into his bed where he laid for a few seconds and appeared very dead. However, he did stagger back to his feet and took a couple steps in the sage brush immediately surrounding him. 2nd shot tore through his neck and blew a baseball size wound out the back. That was lights out of course. Died about 10 feet from his bed.

View attachment 773188

Beautiful buck! Bravo!

 

[Poe]

Fiochi 40 VMAX works incredible. I found it better than the 50 VMAX out of a 1:8 twist. I'll do some grouping but it was very impressive out to 100

I haven’t tried the 40’s for a season and on the closer shots I had no issues but on the longer shots the 55’s did seem to anchor coyotes better. The BC’s really suck but in my opinion for coyotes under 300 yards in a .223 or 22-250 the Speer 52gr hp is one of the most under rated coyote bullets.