.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Der Schwabe]

Though my passion was bowhunting elk (until the imported wolves wiped out my favorite hunting area Grrrrr ) I was firmly in the "big gun for big game" camp.
7mm WBY mag, 300 Win Mag. I've taken a few (6 or 7?) bull elk with the 7. Never missed or wounded any with that gun, however ranges probably never exceeded 200 yards or so. Went on a DIY hunt in AK for moose and caribou with the 300 Win Mag. Got both, also not over that 200 yard range. A couple years ago I had the opportunity to hunt late season cow elk. Used the 300 Win Mag, unsuppressed. I wounded and lost one. About 350-400 yards; don't recall exactly but I ranged it. Then I missed a standing broadside shot at 190 , prone, unhurried, solid rest, witnessed by a friend (just to make it more humiliating ). Tag left unfilled. Last winter I wounded one at around 350-375 and lost it. Then I killed a cow around 350 and a calf about the same. My wounding events and the clean miss probably would have ended up being kills except for the fact I could not tell which elk I'd shot at due to recoil, the fact that (in my limited experience) elk of either sex can appear as though nothing happened even though mortally wounded and the group milling as they usually do so I had no follow-up shot. There was plenty of time for multiple shots each time as they stood and looked for a while.
Of course, I'm not proud of this but those are the bare facts. I doubt I'm such a rare bird.

Of all the almost 4000 pages of this thread here's a question that hasn't been asked: Those who've shot at elk or moose with the 223 and 77 grTMK's, how many have been (assumed) missed and lost, wounded and lost VS hit and retrieved? I pose the same question to the big gun/big game crowd also.

My guess is the ratio of wounded and lost VS taken is (much) greater for the big gun crowd.
I could be wrong.
I thought I was once but I was only mistaken.

I would like to hear of the losses using this combination also. As many times as this bullet has been used successfully, there have to be some wounded/missed outcomes.

 

[mt terry d]

I would like to hear of the losses using this combination also. As many times as this bullet has been used successfully, there have to be some wounded/missed outcomes.

With more precise shooting along with easier follow up shots and an optimized bullet, not necessarily but possibly so. Certainly more elk have been shot at with larger calibers by more hunters, why are other large caliber shooters silent, especially the ones who have stated they'd never use a 223 for elk?

 

[Spoonbill]

With more precise shooting along with easier follow up shots and an optimized bullet, not necessarily but possibly so. Certainly more elk have been shot at with larger calibers by more hunters, why are other large caliber shooters silent, especially the ones who have stated they'd never use a 223 for elk?

The large caliber shooters are likely silent because they would A. have to admit that recoil does actually affect their shooting and B. would further prove the point that a less hard hitting caliber would actually be a better choice.
Just my uneducated opinion but most of the people posting in this thread are likely shooting their 223s more than people shoot the magnums. More practice shooting results in less lost game.

 

[robtattoo]

Just my uneducated opinion but most of the people posting in this thread are likely shooting their 223s more than people shoot the magnums. More practice shooting results in less lost game.

I think it's very telling, towards this point, that those of us who endorse & use the .223 over large, magnum chamberings, are buying projectiles & reloading components by the thousand. Hundreds at least.

When was the last time you heard of a hunter buying 180gr .30 call bullets in multiples of 500?

 

[Castle Rock]

Good point

 

[ztc92]

I think it's very telling, towards this point, that those of us who endorse & use the .223 over large, magnum chamberings, are buying projectiles & reloading components by the thousand. Hundreds at least.

When was the last time you heard of a hunter buying 180gr .30 call bullets in multiples of 500?

This is the main driving force in my opinion and it perfectly describes me.

I started shooting when I was a young kid and have remained active with shooting and hunting ever since, on par with the rest of my family who taught me. We all hunted with bolt action .270’s that we would “sight in” each fall with 5-10 rounds before rifle season. We would also shoot some small game with semi-auto .22’s and hunt birds with pump shotguns. On good years we would even do a little target shooting (from a bench with a lead-sled) a few times over the summer with our hunting rifles to practice at longer ranges and learn how to hold-over with our duplex reticles. This was my approach to shooting/hunting for 20+ years and yet virtually none of it translated to how to use a bolt-action rifle to hunt big game.

In the last year since drinking the Kool-aid and buying a Tikka .223, I’ve shot and practiced more than in the past 20 years combined. What’s more, I’ve taught myself how to reload ammo so I can use the TMK’s, I’ve practiced shooting from field positions and I’m getting better at managing recoil and spotting my impacts. Finally, I now have a rifle/scope combo that I can trust so I know any miss is on me, not the gun or ammo.

Given all this, I’m now confident that if I could go back in time and use my Tikka .223 with my current skill set, every deer I missed or wounded growing up because “I had buck fever”, “the scope lost zero” or “I didn’t have a solid rest” would all be dead.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

Certainly more elk have been shot at with larger calibers by more hunters, why are other large caliber shooters silent, especially the ones who have stated they'd never use a 223 for elk?

They're not silent, they're absent. This thread hasn't been kind to opposing opinions. Not every person who is skeptical about 77grTMK for mature bull elk is a Fudd. It keeps getting brought up because the thread is flooded with deer, pigs, and antelope lethality which should surprise nobody. Cow elk don't seem to enjoy getting hit either. Mature bulls on the other hand have been sparse. There have certainly been lost animals with the combination, just as there has been with any other bullet ever produced. Even if some people opened up with stories about how they lost an animal with seemingly good shot placement, it doesn't detract from the success stories because it's not really a scientific process with percentages and equal variables. There are also thousands of 223 kills not uploaded to this thread every year. Quite a few people have responded with the real answer here: that their practice makes them a better killer, and that is a much better control over variables than simply sizing up powder and bullet weight alone.

 

[Axlrod]

I think it's very telling, towards this point, that those of us who endorse & use the .223 over large, magnum chamberings, are buying projectiles & reloading components by the thousand. Hundreds at least.

When was the last time you heard of a hunter buying 180gr .30 call bullets in multiples of 500?

Well not 180's but 215's

 

[woods89]

Well not 180's but 215's

I know a guy as well who has a lot of 205 EH and 215s as well. He's definitely the exception, though.

Most of the people I talk to about the 223 for big game that can't wrap their minds around it also can't wrap their minds around shooting 500 rounds a year.

 

[Axlrod]

I know a guy as well who has a lot of 205 EH and 215s as well. He's definitely the exception, though.

Most of the people I talk to about the 223 for big game that can't wrap their minds around it also can't wrap their minds around shooting 500 rounds a year.

Yea it's ingrained that a 223 is a varmint round. I was out to dinner last night and an acquaintance asked me what would be the best big game round to get, when I told him a 223 he said "What!"

A guy I became friends with 27 years ago only hunted with a 22/250 and 55 gr soft point factory ammo. He killed a mature bull every year and various other big game animals. He told me back then the key was low recoil and placing your bullet through the middle of the lungs.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

A guy I became friends with 27 years ago only hunted with a 22/250 and 55 gr soft point factory ammo. He killed a mature bull every year and various other big game animals. He told me back then the key was low recoil and placing your bullet through the middle of the lungs.

Wow!

I'm reading Alaska's Wolf Man and he said the 220 Swift was the most emphatic killer of any cartridge he used. Also said he wouldn't use it on grizzlies but that was with 1920's light bullets.

 

[mtnwrunner(Trandy)]

PSA and FYI.........
So, today I went and compared 3 different manufacturers of the 77 TMK'S. Black Hills, Stand 1 Armory and AAC.....Palmetto State Armory. 30 rounds prone, no time in between other than mag change. (You know, the groups open up when the barrel gets hot). I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. Rifle was a crappy tikka factory CTR and the AAC seemed to have a bit more pop.
If you watch Stand 1 and Palmetto, the 77 tmk unicorns do become available every once in awhile.

Enjoy that Tikka.........
If you don't have one, well thats just on you.

Randy

 

[Castle Rock]

0.2R

 

[Antares]

Wow!

I'm reading Alaska's Wolf Man and he said the 220 Swift was the most emphatic killer of any cartridge he used. Also said he wouldn't use it on grizzlies but that was with 1920's light bullets.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the .222 Rem used to be a very popular cartridge for deer culling in NZ.

 

[mtnwrunner(Trandy)]

0.2R

As soon as I get my cone where I want it, then I'll make my zero adjustments. But you're close.

Randy

 

[Formidilosus]

As soon as I get my cone where I want it, then I'll make my zero adjustments. But you're close.

Randy

NO! It’s Right .2!

 

[PNWGATOR]

Direction!

 

[Te Hopo]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the .222 Rem used to be a very popular cartridge for deer culling in NZ.

Yup that's correct, an old mate told me that at the time scopes were becoming more commonplace and the 222s low recoil meant that neck and headshots were easy.
Especially compared to the open sight sporterized Lee Enfield 303s that were used before.

 

[Mike Islander]

0.2R

Please forgive my ignorance, but what does 0.2R mean in this context?

 

[Billy Goat]

Please forgive my ignorance, but what does 0.2R mean in this context?

Mils and direction.

However, it's backwards for best use. Should state direction then correction.