.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Thegman]

That is somethin Gman!, props to a job well done! Ill gladly admit, I was 100% nay sayer when this thread started, but Iv since ( following the whole thread) have changed my thoughts.

I’m pretty married to a particular .375 for this season, but next season I’m super excited to trade in my 375(s) for a .223 for moose and bear, who knows, maybe mountain goat too. Very curious on the expiry time difference I will see between the two. I don’t care about meat loss, but I do care about a fast kill. From what I’m seeing, the expiry times with these small pills seem as quick, if not quicker then my experience with .375’s, which is quite a bit.

Plus, gives me a great excuse to buy another rifle .

Thanks for posting that fine bear!!

Yeah, this was an interesting "experiment". The fact that the bear didn't get any further and/or live any longer with a 223/77TMK through the shoulder than a similar size bear last year hit with a 338 WM, broadside, is, well, interesting...

I wouldn't be surprised if I'd taken the same shot as the 338 WM'd bear it would have died even faster. Unfortunately I only get to try this experiment once a year.

 

[Turkeytider]

Not exactly on topic and no desire to hijack thread, but for those who hunt big ( grizzly, brown ) bears on a " regular" basis, what does one do with a big bear after shooting it? Being from the deep South, I`ve never known anyone who hunted them. Can you eat them? Are we looking at strictly trophies ( rugs, heads, full body mounts, etc. )? I`ve personally never shot at anything bigger than a wild turkey.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

All said, I'm not saying the 223/77TMK is the best rifle possible for dangerous game. This was more about answering the question of "Will it work on something dangerous with less than ideal shot placement?". Sample of one says "Yes, it will".

Very nice Thegman.

However, I think you failed on the "...with less than ideal shot placement?..." question. Just speaking from my experience on most animals, the route your bullet took is an excellent killing route. In my experience, it's one of the best placements to make things soupy. That shot is likely to hit the dorsal aorta. It's a great shot.

I understand what you were saying though. Congrats!

 

[omicron1792]

Not exactly on topic and no desire to hijack thread, but for those who hunt big ( grizzly, brown ) bears on a " regular" basis, what does one do with a big bear after shooting it? Being from the deep South, I`ve never known anyone who hunted them. Can you eat them? Are we looking at strictly trophies ( rugs, heads, full body mounts, etc. )? I`ve personally never shot at anything bigger than a wild turkey.

There is an article in national news about a family that got a parasite from undercooked bear meat

 

[Thegman]

Not exactly on topic and no desire to hijack thread, but for those who hunt big ( grizzly, brown ) bears on a " regular" basis, what does one do with a big bear after shooting it? Being from the deep South, I`ve never known anyone who hunted them. Can you eat them? Are we looking at strictly trophies ( rugs, heads, full body mounts, etc. )? I`ve personally never shot at anything bigger than a wild turkey.

In some places apparently the meat can be terrible. Where I am they're bottom of the list, but usually edible at least. Some people eat them on occasion. Neighbors took the meat from mine last year. They'd apparently had enough this year. Hide and skull are the only salvage requirement for grizzly/brown bears.

 

[Turkeytider]

In some places apparently the meat can be terrible. Where I am they're bottom of the list, but usually edible at least. Some people eat them on occasion. Neighbors took the meat from mine last year. They'd apparently had enough this year. Hide and skull are the only salvage requirement for grizzly/brown bears.

Good `ole trichinosis ( Trichinella spiralis ). None for me, thanks. Took too much microbiology and parasitology in college! While we`re not at the top of their menu, I always got the impression that they enjoy eating us more than we do them!

 

[Thegman]

Good `ole trichinosis ( Trichinella spiralis ). None for me, thanks. Took too much microbiology and parasitology in college! While we`re not at the top of their menu, I always got the impression that they enjoy eating us more than we do them!

I eat black bear for breakfast 5 days a week, I think it's great meat. Lots of people here like it a lot. Grizzly isn't as good, but both carry tricinosis. Not too different than domestic pork from back in the day, or wild today.

 

[atmat]

I eat black bear for breakfast 5 days a week, I think it's great meat. Lots of people here like it a lot. Grizzly isn't as good, but both carry tricinosis. Not too different than domestic pork from back in the day, or wild today.

This is the answer. I’ve not tried grizz. But trich is not a reason to avoid bear meat.

 

[z987k]

This is the answer. I’ve not tried grizz. But trich is not a reason to avoid bear meat.

Any wild carnivore or omnivore basically has trich. Even if they don't, you have to treat the meat as if it does because you really don't want it.
Cook it appropriately and it's fine.
I've not had grizz, supposed to taste terrible, I might save some for sausage this year to find out once and for all. Maybe some stew meat.
Black bear is great, except as steak. Because you have to cook it to a point that any steak would be terrible. Makes great sausage or anything that sits in the crock pot for 8 hours.

 

[z987k]

Yeah, this was an interesting "experiment". The fact that the bear didn't get any further and/or live any longer with a 223/77TMK through the shoulder than a similar size bear last year hit with a 338 WM, broadside, is, well, interesting...

I wouldn't be surprised if I'd taken the same shot as the 338 WM'd bear it would have died even faster. Unfortunately I only get to try this experiment once a year.

Are you hunting on the road system? 16 allows 2 a year no closed season, and it could really use more hunters helping to get the numbers down. 5 Black bears to.

 

[bnsafe]

you guys are turning green with envy with hunting bears, especially grizzly. Alaska must be the holy grail

 

[Thegman]

Are you hunting on the road system? 16 allows 2 a year no closed season, and it could really use more hunters helping to get the numbers down. 5 Black bears to.

I'm in 13 on the road system. Hoping they raise our limit to two as well. This area is lousy with grizzlies too.

 

[z987k]

I'm in 13 on the road system. Hoping they raise our limit to two as well. This area is lousy with grizzlies too.

Ya, your bou population has collapsed over there. The shooting gallery adfg created back in 21 or 22 didn't help. Legal moose are pretty rare to.

 

[Toomuchon]

Well, I rest my case that you have no case. What, that is a completely worthless jib that serves no purpose, I take it back.

If your case is that someone else does not make the case for you and asks to have it shown, well my conclusion is that you have no case worth discussion.

Everything can succeed and everything can fail. One failure, or a few successes make for a very weak case. Hell, Bella Twin took a world record grizzly with a 22 (probably a 22 short, but perhaps a 22 long rifle) and Gene Moe Killed a costal brown with a knife.

If limited data is all the data we have, then we have no choice but to use it. However, there is a whole lot of success data buried in the thread with a few people who don't like certain aspects (no exit, poor blood trails, Etc.). If you want to have a case, for your accusation of intellectual laziness, which you have now specifically leveled against me by the way, stop being intellectually lazy yourself and make a case. That case, to be worth considering, must show that the 223/TMK fails more than a commonly accepted alternative (say a 7 mag loaded with Accubonds).

For the record, it was my own attempt to actually make a case against the 223/TMK that lead to me accepting it, because I failed to find the data I expected that showed it not to work.

Unfortunately it appears that @Tahr post has been taken out of context. I know that he shoots a LOT of deer with multiple .223’s and has been doing so for a number of decades. I can’t speak for the exact number, but I’d expect several hundred, if not a thousand. Based on the vast data set that he has presented in our local hunting forum, there is no overwhelming preference for a specific bullet to be used on medium game. Anything from Hornady 55gr SP, 53gr ELD-M, TMK through to 74/80gr locally manufactured projectiles. They all do the job once they’re placed where they need to go.

Seeing as you’re looking for an argument against the .223, vs the 7mm mag you mention - I would say the only real disadvantage of the .223 is wind drift. However, the disadvantage with the 7mm is recoil. There’s no free lunch anywhere, and literally every aspect of life involves compromise.

 

[Pharmseller]

The primary point of this thread is that bullet construction matters more than headstamps. It was stated in the first post. Bullet construction, as long as a shot is within the terminal velocity range of the bullet, determines wound channel volume and depth. What you’ll find if you take the time to go through this thread is that the right bullet in a 223 will result in more than enough damage and penetration to ethically harvest any game in North America and it will do it in a package that has less recoil and is easier to shoot accurately.

Kind of a mic drop post.




P

 

[SloppyJ]

I started my own thread as to not derail this one buy Gator asked me to add this.

I recently decided to dive into the .223 madness with yall. I was building a short action and had everything but my barrel. I'm still waiting on my 6creed barrel but I found a PVA .223 prefit in the classifieds with some brass so I said hell, why not.

Long story short, I took it out today for the first time and I haven't had that much fun since I was a kid. The instant feedback you get from spotting your shots took me all the way back to shooting 22s. My first loads were on point and I can't tell you how satisfying it was to watch a hole appear right where I have the cross hairs.

I live in the south. My first rifle was a .243. Then it quickly graduated to a 30-06. This line of thinking challenges the status quo down here very heavily. I'm glad I jumped in and I think I might take a couple deer with it later this year.

My first loads were 24.6g varget under a 75gr ELDM at 2.5". Can't complain about this 10rd group.

 

[Toomuchon]

That’s a pretty sick looking setup, very nice!

 

[JBradley500]

What velocity were you getting, like 2750?

 

[SloppyJ]

What velocity were you getting, like 2750?

2799.9 was the average so I'm going to round up to 2800. It's a 22" barrel with a Dilligent Defense Wolfhunter (6mm).

 

[prairieboy]

H4895 with 75 eldm gets me 2940-2950 from a 22" tikka. What was your charge weight?

i dont remember off the top of my head but i ran into case capacity issues with lc-13 cases. same with varget. Could have even been accuracy issues that caused me to drop it and move on, again id have to check my notes.