.223, 6mm, and 6.5 failures on big game

[huntnful]

I have not. That's beyond the range I'm actually going to shoot at an animal with them. Through the 500y I've shot them, if it's not on, it's within the noise and cone this rifle shoots.
The purpose of this gun actually isn't a real long range gun. It's that it's got a 450y mpbr and shoots really soft. I can let about anyone borrow it when they're with me and within(well within) that range it's point and shoot. Or shooting small things where ranging isn't possible.

Gotcha! Makes perfect sense. That’s exactly what my 6 PRC is for as well. No recoil and I plan to have my daughter start wreaking havoc with it shortly. It’s a very capable cartridge. And an easy and fun little wildcat.

 

[Formidilosus]

That bull was dead. I dont have anyone stop shooting until they hit ground. Especially with 7 minutes of daylight left.just shows how tough some are then others too. That bull could have gone bad the other bull dropped one shot same distance same heard. That bulls internals was destroyed and the fact a guy never shot 700 yards was able to stack 4 in boiler room with a big bad magnum off a terrible position he was in. Just shows it can be done. I think smaller gun wouldn’t of made tbat scenario any better. Bullet performance was excellent.@SouthPaw

See this is where it becomes obvious that I like/I think/I feel is what is driving your responses- like the vast majority that hold the same stance. You shot a single elk with a 22cal, shot it twice- and then used that as the “evidence” that it’s too small. But then turn around and someone shoots 4 quick shots from a 30cal mag- “it’s no big deal, it was dead on its feet”.

 

[hunterjmj]

That bull was dead. I dont have anyone stop shooting until they hit ground. Especially with 7 minutes of daylight left.just shows how tough some are then others too. That bull could have gone bad the other bull dropped one shot same distance same heard. That bulls internals was destroyed and the fact a guy never shot 700 yards was able to stack 4 in boiler room with a big bad magnum off a terrible position he was in. Just shows it can be done. I think smaller gun wouldn’t have made tbat scenario any better. Bullet performance was excellent.@SouthPaw

What bullet ?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I’ll be hunting them next year as a nonresident though. Fines are less than a tank of gas. No brainer!!!

Still probably a steeper fine than using smaller than 6mm on elk in Calorado

 

[barehandlineman]

See this is where it becomes obvious that I like/I think/I feel is what is driving your responses- like the vast majority that hold the same stance. You shot a single elk with a 22cal, shot it twice- and then used that as the “evidence” that it’s too small. But then turn around and someone shoots 4 quick shots from a 30cal mag- “it’s no big deal, it was dead on its feet”.

No ive shot many many elk and understand they dont always go down in one shot with a big gun with a good bullet. Common sense tells you smaller will not make it better. I gave it one go with a 22 creedmoor with almost perfect environment and did not perform. Where a 30 cal dropped that same elk instantly. Night and day difference between the guns

What bullet ?

230 a tip

 

[Formidilosus]

No ive shot many many elk and understand they dont always go down in one shot with a big gun with a good bullet. Common sense tells you smaller will not make it better. I gave it one go with a 22 creedmoor with almost perfect environment and did not perform. Where a 30 cal dropped that same elk instantly. Night and day difference between the guns

Except that you just admitted it didn’t do it on another- that is not being intellectually honest. Nor is it logical thinking.

 

[barehandlineman]

No I admitted some elk are tougher then others. If i had more daylight that bull was dead on one shot. With your theory what would of a 6mm offered me over that 30 cal in that instance? Nothing

 

[hunterjmj]

No ive shot many many elk and understand they dont always go down in one shot with a big gun with a good bullet. Common sense tells you smaller will not make it better. I gave it one go with a 22 creedmoor with almost perfect environment and did not perform. Where a 30 cal dropped that same elk instantly. Night and day difference between the guns

230 a

No ive shot many many elk and understand they dont always go down in one shot with a big gun with a good bullet. Common sense tells you smaller will not make it better. I gave it one go with a 22 creedmoor with almost perfect environment and did not perform. Where a 30 cal dropped that same elk instantly. Night and day difference between the guns

230 a tip

You just told me the Berger 215 hybrid is a horrible bullet but I had had the same scenario as you? Bull soaked up 4 bullets but was dead with the first shot. Hard to know until you skin/gut them. Shoot what you will cause I could care less but like form said, be honest.

 

[barehandlineman]

ugh where was i not being honest. Ive not had good luck with bergers. I run a tips they work for me. My issue with bergers some pencil some blow up to much inconsistency.

 

[hunterjmj]

ugh where was i not being honest. Ive not had good luck with bergers. I run a tips they work for me. My issue with bergers some pencil some blow up to much inconsistency.

I told a story of a bull I shot last year with 215 bergers. All 4 shots hit him in the lungs. In retrospect the first shot killed him but I keep shooting just as you do. Then you said bergers are terrible. Maybe a tips suck cause you had to shoot 4 times? I've shot a lot of animals with the 215 and never experienced penciling or blowing up. I don't shoot hundreds of elk/ year either so maybe you're right.

 

[barehandlineman]

I just gave you my opinion and experience with them. Bergers shoot smaller but Ive never had best of luck hunting with them. Killed plenty but ive just had performance issues with 180’s 7mm and 30. 215 and 300’s. A tips have performed identical for me on every elk moose deer. With identical terminal performance what would be the issue with one elk out of dozens? The one and only elk shot with 22 creed got stoned by that same bullet.

 

[Formidilosus]

No I admitted some elk are tougher then others.

So the single 22CM elk couldn’t have been a “tough” one?

If i had more daylight that bull was dead on one shot.

And if you “had more daylight” the single lung shot from the 22CM would have been a dead elk.

How is it that you are unable to critically think about what you are “saying” and see the cognitive disconnect?

With your theory what would have a 6mm offered me over that 30 cal in that instance? Nothing

I didn’t say it would get you anything. It also doesn’t mean it would have cost you anything. Not one person is telling you that a 30cal mag with fragmenting bullets won’t kill elk. You, along with @Ucsdryder are doing that, yet have extremely limited experience with the smaller caliber, optimized bullets that are being discussed; or in his case-none.

It’s baffling how an intelligent person would make declarative statements about something not working, when they have no experience base using that item, and in-spite of the reality that those with the lots of experience are not only nearly unanimous in saying it works well- but post extremely detailed information about how it works, in some cases with hundreds of pictures.


I know that 338cal heavy fragmenting bullets kill well- I have done it repeatedly.

I know that 30cal heavy fragmenting bullets kill well- I have done it repeatedly.

I know that 7mm heavy fragmenting bullets kill well- I have done it repeatedly.

I know that 6.5 mm heavy fragmenting bullets kill well- I have done it repeatedly.

I know that 6mm heavy fragmenting bullets kill well- I have done it repeatedly.

I know that .224 heavy fragmenting bullets kill well- I have done it repeatedly.


Notice- “I have done it repeatedly” is stated. Not- “I did it one time” or “I have never done it”. And not allowing for “x” outcome with one caliber, but not allowing it for all.

Now I don’t have 66 5point Roosevelt bulls- my “best” season was 20 elk- but I have and do use all of those listed above, and directly witness others do as well (all the way to 50 BMG), and the definitive statements made about “bigger better” has not and does not play out when seen in large sample sizes side by side, across the board at all ranges and situations… and when people aren’t allowed to cherry pick.
No one can watch the videos from impact to time of incapacitation (down and unmoving) and say which elk were shot with .224’s, and which were shot with 300 mags. What data does show is that as recoil and muzzle blast goes up, on average the amount of rodeos and wounded animals also go up.

 

[Brucebarker024]

No I admitted some elk are tougher than others. If i had more daylight that bull was dead on one shot. With your theory what would have a 6mm offered me over that 30 cal in that instance? Nothing

I shot a mule deer with a 2 inch mechanical broadhead and he died within 30 seconds. Another buck took 3 180 hybrids in the chest cavity before he died. Does that mean the arrow and broadhead I used are more lethal and effective than the 7 SAUM I used?

I will add, I don’t have a dog in the fight. People should shoot what they want but they should also be honest and reasonable.

 

[huntnful]

I shot a mule deer with a 2 inch mechanical broadhead and he died within 30 seconds. Another buck took 3 180 hybrids in the chest cavity before he died. Does that mean the arrow and broadhead I used are more lethal and effective than the 7 SAUM I used?

I will add, I don’t have a dog in the fight. People should shoot what they want but they should also be honest and reasonable.

This buck went 5 yards. 2” SEVR


This buck went 70 yards (in about 10 seconds). 180 Berger Hybrid.


I can’t say which is “more” lethal. There’s just so many things that cause so many different outcomes. So all I do is just keep killing animals to form an opinion is all.

I’ve also stoned a buck with a behind the shoulder shot with a 180 hybrid, and had one run 70 yards with a lung shot expandable.

So it’s just about perspective and killing enough, and seeing enough killed to build upon it. And one bad outcome or bullet performance can absolutely change or shift that perspective. Despite it technically not being enough data. It’s enough for someone to go “yeah I didn’t like that, I’m not going to try it again”.