What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[Dobermann]

I know some of those writers like Bryce Towsley are fans of the 338 and up so I am interested to read what he says.

I don't know much about Bryce Towsley, but a I once read a book of his, which contained all sorts of misinformation ... not someone I'd be seeking credible terminal performance data from ...

 

[SwiftShot]

There's a TON of posts on cartridge selection and bullet threads that go "have you read" the following:
1) the .223 thread
2) the 6mm thread
3) the 6.5mm thread

I've read those, and see a lot of animals and wound channels. I likely missed the nexus or catalyst for what has created this, but Rokslide is very much a place where you're going to get a posting response such as:
"you don't need a 7 PRC, get 7mm-08"
"Magnums are uneccesary to effectively kill game < 700 yards"
etc etc.
@Ryan Avery you shifted from margin of error, big 30s, and came around to super fast 6mm like 6 UM in like 2 years. What was the main thing that changed your mind?

I've read one comment along the lines of "being tired of the constant recommendations for smallest cartridge possible" or similar. I imagine that sentiment is not singular.

My Question: is the justifcation or cause of this people successfully killing animals with smaller catridges and caliber bullets using match-type bullets creating large wound channels? I've heard hit rates/statistics cited, but unsure where to read about this. For those "converts" who have seen the smaller cartridge light - can you please expain to me what/why? If repeated elsewhere in hundreds of pages of the evidence based (ie kills) threads, I still thought it might be useful to tuck the "why" topic into a dedicated thread.

Again I'm not saying it is wrong - I'm just noticing a very prevelant trend and trying to fully understand it. And I own a 6.5CM which was purchased due to cheaper ammo, less recoil, availability, etc so I have some understanding and experience with the benefits cited. I also own a suppresssed 7 PRC, which I read is basically too much recoil/gun for western hunting? I think Form said somewhere a full 6.5 PRC around 16 ft-lb of recoil was the practical limit for most adults, and they always do better < 10 ft-lbs?

I've heard the Shoot2Hunt podcasts and read the threads, and haven't walked away with a clear "why."

Brief me. Please.

There is a very vocal person selling it on rokslide. He is the 223 thread.

 

[fwafwow]

Would folks defend the NRA if it was run by pedophiles if the results were good? It’s a rhetorical question, but assuming the answer is “no” then defending the organization despite what management actually did just means some have drawn a different line in what behavior is not acceptable based on the outcomes.

And just think of how well the NRA could protect our rights in the future if they had not wasted (or worse) all of that money. What a war chest they would have.

I’m a Life Member and would like to give more, if the NRA was overhauled.

 

[pacoalcracker]

Just because your wife overspends at the store and still can't cook very well...but, you're not starving and eat what she cooks...does not make her a terrible wife and cause for divorce. Same for NRA.

 

[fwafwow]

Just because your wife overspends at the store and still can't cook very well...but, you're not starving and eat what she cooks...does not make her a terrible wife and cause for divorce. Same for NRA.

What if your wife stole your money and spent it at the store on a boyfriend?

Yeah, we have derailed what was already a tangent. Sorry to the OP and everyone else.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Rokslide is a unique combination, lots of folks with different views and lots of folks that different things work for them, and created a following for the smaller calibers.

NRA: the people were the problem, not necessarily the majority of issues they stood for. When it comes to second amendment and similar rights, would I want them representing what I believe or not. It's a lesser of evils, if you will.

 

[sclb745]

I don't have near the clout as some of the guys on here, but I've not carried my 7RM in two seasons and opt for my 6.5 CM these days. When I shot my first deer with a 140 ELDM, even after seeing all the success, I was nervous as blank. But when the bullet impacted the deer and the ground was swept out from under him, nerves were no more. Was even more impressed when I dressed the deer and saw the internal damage.

I admit, I've got some of that old school fudd mentality of needing two holes in the animal and have not went smaller than the 6.5 CM yet, but it's also my smallest bolt rifle in the safe. That will be different next year. I'll either have a 6 ARC or 6 CM that I'll carry and will stick to the 108 ELDM in either. There really is no reason for me to carry anything bigger than that in the woods.

 

[pacoalcracker]

I did find the article written in AH by Towsley "The Importance of Long Range Values". It was the October issue and it starts on page 48. He recommends the minimum of 6.5 caliber and 130gr bullet for longer range hunting of any big game if you are going to engage, even though he clearly does not condone it. He goes into his reasoning and his experiments shooting at LR with some experts. Yeah, he is calling it out and he says he has been for a long time but too many are out to prove something that isn't in sportsmans best interests. I'm not saying he is right or wrong, but he does have a large hunting audience and I'm sure plenty of anti-hunter readers as well.

As for me, I will stick to my 270 or 308 for Pa deer and bear hunting and 7prc and 300wsm for anything farther to my self-limited range of 450 yards if I absolutely had to. You can almost always get closer than that if you try. I have nothing to "prove" by extending that range or shoot a 223 for big game....but to each their own.

 

[General RE LEE]

I see value in watching the hit and what immediately follows through the scope.

 

[Pharmseller]

Just because your wife overspends at the store and still can't cook very well...but, you're not starving and eat what she cooks...does not make her a terrible wife and cause for divorce. Same for NRA.

Can you post pics of the wife?

To stay on topic, here’s a bacon cheeseburger with grilled onions from the buck I killed this year with a .223 using a single 75 gr ELDM. DRT.







P

 

[Billogna]

 

[goalie]

View attachment 794507

I laughed so hard when I saw this.

 

[wind gypsy]

I did find the article written in AH by Towsley "The Importance of Long Range Values". It was the October issue and it starts on page 48. He recommends the minimum of 6.5 caliber and 130gr bullet for longer range hunting of any big game if you are going to engage, even though he clearly does not condone it. He goes into his reasoning and his experiments shooting at LR with some experts. Yeah, he is calling it out and he says he has been for a long time but too many are out to prove something that isn't in sportsmans best interests. I'm not saying he is right or wrong, but he does have a large hunting audience and I'm sure plenty of anti-hunter readers as well.

As for me, I will stick to my 270 or 308 for Pa deer and bear hunting and 7prc and 300wsm for anything farther to my self-limited range of 450 yards if I absolutely had to. You can almost always get closer than that if you try. I have nothing to "prove" by extending that range or shoot a 223 for big game....but to each their own.

My membership must have lapsed, i dont recall seeing that issue but then again i dont find much value in most of the ads and elementary stuff written in AH. What does he define as "Longer Range"? I'd like to hear the relevance of why a 130 grain 6.5 pill is the cut off.

 

[huntnful]

Form.....I see Bryce Townsley has, and now editor in chief J. Scott Omstead are calling you .223 for large game and long range small caliber hunting guys out.....publicly, in American Hunter magazine (NRA). Not you specifically, but the concept you are pushing(perhaps he knows of the RS 223 pages). Page 8 of the December issue. Me personally, I don't care a lot about what others shoot but I certainly won't be doing it since I can handle the cartridges that I shoot. I just find it interesting, with the wider viewpoint on the concept, outside of RS. Seems you have an excellent opportunity to set them right, like you attempt to do here. Somehow, I don't think you will exercise it.

I’ve never seen the .223 actually recommended for long range. Tested to long range to prove expansion and lethality, and then shared, yes. But never whole heartedly recommended for it.

I think people like to take things out of context in those publications to cause an uproar and gain traction.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Agree, it's not been touted for longer range than the bullet construction and velocity allow for proper expansion.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Despite any difference in case size or caliber, bullet performance is all that's left at the end of the day. We do all have common ground in that regardless of what we shoot.

 

[ElPollo]

Elpollo...millions of NRA members get AH magazine...and read it. Sorry if you cannot see the benefits to reading, and more importantly, backing those that protect your freedoms to shoot and hunt. It's your loss to contend with. I read every single day......it's part of retaining intelligence.

Benefits of reading? I read plenty, but don’t waste my time with bad sources. I’ve seen multiple copies of AH over the years and have never found it to be worth the paper it was printed on.

 

[Jake Larsen]

I’ve never seen the .223 actually recommended for long range. Tested to long range to prove expansion and lethality, and then shared, yes. But never whole heartedly recommended for it.

I think people like to take things out of context in those publications to cause an uproar and gain traction.

Who honestly reads AH? Or any of the written publications? They’re pandering to their base, which is mostly older guys who have read the same outdoor writers for decades. It’s an easy way to get the old guys sitting in their rockers to guffaw and huff at these new age internet hunters and their stupid ideas. There’s a good chance none of these writers have even taken the time to read through the piles of evidence that flies in the face of their conventional “wisdom” let alone actually test it for themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ElPollo]

Elpollo...millions of NRA members get AH magazine...and read it. Sorry if you cannot see the benefits to reading, and more importantly, backing those that protect your freedoms to shoot and hunt. It's your loss to contend with. I read every single day......it's part of retaining intelligence.

By the way, you might want to look up the definition of “passive aggressive behavior” and read it. You might get something beneficial out of it. But maybe not.

 

[ElPollo]

It would be great if we could focus on the topic of the thread and not go down the NRA politics rabbit hole.