Wyoming Corner Crossing defense fund

[dieselchessy]

Cowbell, in other areas I generally agree with you so please let me know if I am making an incorrect assumption, but the price of the federal land tacked on to a ranch is for the leased grass, not for the recreational lease. Because of the status quo there has been a general move to land owners feeling they own the leased ground.

I dont think anyone discounts the fact that wildlife benefits from private ground and there is alot of chest puffing over this, but what are you really saying? If people get more access to federal surface the recourse is to destroy habitats? High fence everything to exclude wildlife? Turn off water? What dose that say about the humble rancher living in tune with nature. Also I really doubted landowners are willing to remove the revenue stream they get from outfitting and trespass fees.

I say this for the sake of discussion not as an insult. I remember you saying you are in ag and seemed to have very even handed ideas about stocking rates and fees for fed land.

Reading that real estate add one gets the feeling that land is primarily leased for the private recreation opportunities. Going so far as to list off the recreation opportunities afforded by those locked up public lands, and pointing out court cases seeming to solidify the legality of locking up those lands for exclusive private recreational use.
There is very little mention of grazing allotments, and profitable cattle operations. That property is listed as a recreational Mecca. Not a working ranching business.

 

[realunlucky]

Reading that real estate add one gets the feeling that land is primarily leased for the private recreation opportunities. Going so far as to list off the recreation opportunities afforded by those locked up public lands, and pointing out court cases seeming to solidify the legality of locking up those lands for exclusive private recreational use.
There is very little mention of grazing allotments, and profitable cattle operations. That property is listed as a recreational Mecca. Not a working ranching business.

I think the entire point was that's not what is included within these blm lease agreements.



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[highfastflyer]

Some on here ask about the legalities vs. the traditions of corner crossing. As an old long term Wyoming resident I’ll give you my perspective. Nobody cared about going out to all those checkerboard lands and corner hopping in the 1960s and early 70s. Anyone was free to access those lands back then. In the late 70s things began to change as hunting and recreation and Outfitting became a bigger business. Then the government tried forcing the Leo Sheep Company to build a road across a corner. Leo Sheep sued and the Judge found in favor of Leo Sheep that no implied easement existed. After the 1979 Leo Sheep vs. United States case all government agencies started treating checkerboard lands as inaccessible and corner hopping as Illegal. This brings us to the stalemate where we are at today. Back 40-50 years you could access any of those lands without recourse in the Southern Wyoming checkerboard lands. Nowadays nobody gives access and all the hunting is leased to Outfitters. Personally, I do not think the government and the railroad in 1869 intended to block out those lands and could even foresee corner hopping as an issue, but as the laws evolved and big business became paramount to those ranches they started enforcing and pushing to lock out the public and we are left with the mess we have today.

 

[Zeke6951]

There has been several post that say the private landowners are locking them out of public land. The PL are locking people out of private land. If you can get on the public land legally without touching private space, go for it. The private landowners only want the laws that are on books enforced. Yes it is to their benefit. Your complaint should be with the lawmakers not the private landowner.

 

[realunlucky]

There has been several post that say the private landowners are locking them out of public land. The PL are locking people out of private land. If you can get on the public land legally without touching private space, go for it. The private landowners only want the laws that are on books enforced. Yes it is to their benefit. Your complaint should be with the lawmakers not the private landowner.

The supreme court has already ruled that government lands share the exact same rights as average private land. So the leased land can only be used for what is explicitly granted in the lease

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[wapitibob]

Personally, I do not think the government and the railroad in 1869 intended to block out those lands and could even foresee corner hopping as an issue, but as the laws evolved and big business became paramount to those ranches they started enforcing and pushing to lock out the public and we are left with the mess we have today.

It's possible the RR never relinquished access to those parcels; time will tell.

 

[chasethomas]

I hope this goes well; if you don't step foot on private land then you shouldn't get a trespass ticket

 

[wind gypsy]

Looks like donations have spiked a bit since Rinella put this on the gram.

 

[wind gypsy]

BLM lands are always listed as part of the property in the west. The leases go with the ranch.

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Yep. I’d encourage anyone to look up a bunch of these big ranch listings. Vast majority right up front “30,000 acre ranch for sale including 17,500 deeded acres”. It’s how they do it, not a one off. There is a value tied to having access to public that is blocked by your land and people pay for that value. Problem is it’s a gamble because the guy they bought it from didn’t own it either. Sucks if you paid buku bucks but it’s always belonged to to public and that’s a risk they took.

 

[wind gypsy]

There has been several post that say the private landowners are locking them out of public land. The PL are locking people out of private land. If you can get on the public land legally without touching private space, go for it. The private landowners only want the laws that are on books enforced. Yes it is to their benefit. Your complaint should be with the lawmakers not the private landowner.

Guess we’ll find out who should be complaining to the lawmakers in WY with this one.

 

[deepnsteep]

Guess we’ll find out who should be complaining to the lawmakers in WY with this one.

I'd be shocked if the legislature could solve this. Bills that attempt to come up occasionally and seem to die a swift death, no matter whose air space you're in so to speak. I think the only way we get any clarity on this issue at all is through the courts' interpretation of the laws that already exist. It ain't going to happen quickly and don't be surprised if the precedent will still leave significant gray area.

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[wyodan]

Personally, I do not think the government and the railroad in 1869 intended to block out those lands and could even foresee corner hopping as an issue, but as the laws evolved and big business became paramount to those ranches they started enforcing and pushing to lock out the public and we are left with the mess we have today.

I had a history professor in college that would disagree with this. The checkerboard lands were to give the railroad control to twice as much land as they were deeded and the public knew about. It is also the reason for some of the big sweeping curves in the railroad. The curves gave the railroad much more land than if it was a straight shot.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I had a history professor in college that would disagree with this. The checkerboard lands were to give the railroad control to twice as much land as they were deeded and the public knew about. It is also the reason for some of the big sweeping curves in the railroad. The curves gave the railroad much more land than if it was a straight shot.

Ever been in the middle of nowhere and come across railroad tracks leading to nowhere. Yep…same reason!

 

[CorbLand]

I had a history professor in college that would disagree with this. The checkerboard lands were to give the railroad control to twice as much land as they were deeded and the public knew about. It is also the reason for some of the big sweeping curves in the railroad. The curves gave the railroad much more land than if it was a straight shot.

It is also well documented that the railroad did this as they were paid by the mile.

Its not some new fad that some businesses are leaches off the Government.

 

[Bobbyboe]

It's possible the RR never relinquished access to those parcels; time will tell.

Tell me more…

 

[BuzzH]

Tell me more…

Its being looked into by going back into old records what rights were retained and those that weren't under the various government land give-away programs.

 

[cnelk]

$45,000+ raised

That is a serious defense fund

 

[wind gypsy]

$45,000+ raised

That is a serious defense fund

Is it though? For 4 defendants and each of their lawyers? $11,500 per person in lawyers sounds like maybe a couple days work in support of each defendant.

I know meateater is donating some proceeds for anything purchased from the meateater store when you use promo code "CAL" at checkout. Be interested to see what that amounts to.

 

[Wapiti1]

Is it though? For 4 defendants and each of their lawyers? $11,500 per person in lawyers sounds like maybe a couple days work in support of each defendant.

I know meateater is donating some proceeds for anything purchased from the meateater store when you use promo code "CAL" at checkout. Be interested to see what that amounts to.

The key to making it work is the re-imbursement of court fees from the Fed. Same deal the anti's use to litigate grizzly bear hunting and swatting flies in your living room.

But, I agree, this isn't a thousands of dollars thing. It's a hundreds of thousands thing to make it truly successful.

Jeremy

 

[wind gypsy]

The key to making it work is the re-imbursement of court fees from the Fed. Same deal the anti's use to litigate grizzly bear hunting and swatting flies in your living room.

But, I agree, this isn't a thousands of dollars thing. It's a hundreds of thousands thing to make it truly successful.

Jeremy

Yeah, all i know is business related litigation which I understand is a completely different ball game. But in my experience it's pretty common to just pay or walk away from millions because lawyer fees are going to cost at least as much.. So when I think of $11k i feel like a guy can't be getting too much for that.