Wyo Corner Crossing JURY TAMPERING?

[redfish]

The events of last week exposed a new low in our judicial system. This trial was conducted in a very Latin America dictatorship way, with the Co. Prosecutor clearly sitting in the pocket of the fat cat landowner but, now, THE JUDGE? The facts show that in the early stages of the trial (jury selection), the Prosecutor ordered the Sheriff to issue 2020 trespassing citations to 3 of the hunters IN FRONT OF the jury pool. 58 potential jurors, might I add. Heck, they should've gone full __________ and cuffed n' stuffed the hunters, too.

This maneuver was a blatant "kill 2 birds with 1 stone" by not only attempting to sway the final 6 jurors, but to also influence the remaining jury pool in the upcoming 2020 trespass trial. Most jury candidates are on a 3 to 6 month notice, so undoubtedly the remaining 52 citizens who saw this staged act will be candidates for the new trial.

From what I understand, once the defense team heard of this, they immediately called foul and lobbied for a mistrial. The judge, the "Hon'" Susan Stipe, rejected their protest. Fortunately, 6 common sense jurors didn't take long to reach a Non Guilty verdict.

So....now in America, or at least in Carbon County, Wyoming, a Prosecutor and Judge can collaborate to influence a jury pool and it looks like they'll continue to pour on charges to the "Missouri 4" (I guess 3) until they get a verdict that'll please their decision maker, obviously Mr. Fat Cat. Other then a few online folks, I'm not seeing the the total anger at this injustice. Again, this is Banana Republic stuff and heads aren't rolling? Someone here explain to me how this in-your-face act of injustice is allowed to continue with absolutely no repercussions to the Prosecutor and Judge.

 

[redfish]

Oops, forgot to mention the Sheriff Dept involved in this ticket issuing. You also have a County Sheriff not only OK doing this in front of a Jury pool......but also DOING IT? Is there no common sense, no dignity in the inner bowels of Carbon County?

 

[Rich M]

It is called POLITICS.

I'm surprised they didn't get the guys based on the fact that the WY regulations essentially say not to corner cross.

Maybe they just got too complicated as opposed to pulling out the regulations and showing them to the jury.

 

[downthepipe]

WWLD. What would Longmire Do

 

[redfish]

you obviously didn't fully read my post, follow the trial or understand statutes. REGULATIONS that "essentially" say no corner crossing? What are you talking about?

 

[Rich M]

you obviously didn't fully read my post, follow the trial or understand statutes. REGULATIONS that "essentially" say no corner crossing? What are you talking about?

What is with everyone?

Read below. B&M all you want - I take this as saying you can't corner cross. "Not accessible without permission of a private landowner" is a dead giveaway.

Why the jury found em not guilty is messed-up. The prosecutor screwed up. He could have pulled the hunt planner map up and showed the folks what is below, then explained that corner crossing is not allowed, stopped there instead of trying to prove ill intent or whatever. Sometimes less is more.

No - I didn't watch, don't really care about corner crossing after a GW specifically told me not to do it in 2017, that it is illegal and he would ticket us if we did. Kinda figured he meant it. Lotsa folks told me he was wrong and that I should do it anyway. That was messed-up.

If I'm driving across the country to WY to hunt, I'm not gonna go on to a property that a GW tells me to stay off of and the state of WY considers generally not accessible.

If they don't punish these guys somehow, there is gonna be a large uptick in corner crossing this year and a whole bunch of new business for the GW and sheriffs.

This is from the hunt planner - ELK Unit 118 - feel free to verify it. Similar language in the antelope and deer hunt planners too.

Access Information

PUBLIC ACCESS INFO ​

Approx. % of Public Land: 70%
Access to Public Land: Fair

Access Notes - Roughly 70 percent of Area 118 is public land, with most of the private land being found in the southern half in what is called the “checkerboard,” where every other square mile is private. As a result, public lands in the checkerboard that do not touch a public road are generally not accessible without permission of a private land owner. There are few public roads, and ranches in this area tend to be large, so significant blocks of the southern portion of the area are either unavailable to hunting or available only to outfitted clients or by trespass fee. The Wyoming Game and Fish Department’s Chain Lakes WHMA provides access to ~100 square miles of public and deeded lands in the northwest corner of the checkerboard, but is too arid to hold many elk. There is good access to public land for most of the northern portion of the hunt area. View the hunt planner map for available Walk-In lands open to elk hunting.

BLM 1:100,000 Quad Maps: Rawlins, Bairoil, Red Desert

USFS Designated Wilderness Areas: None

Hunting Access in Wyoming - Public Access Summary

 

[Billy Goat]

Kinda interesting first post.

 

[Wrench]

PDR/FOIA can be a powerful tool....

 

[Wyobohunter]

The events of last week exposed a new low in our judicial system. This trial was conducted in a very Latin America dictatorship way, with the Co. Prosecutor clearly sitting in the pocket of the fat cat landowner but, now, THE JUDGE? The facts show that in the early stages of the trial (jury selection), the Prosecutor ordered the Sheriff to issue 2020 trespassing citations to 3 of the hunters IN FRONT OF the jury pool. 58 potential jurors, might I add. Heck, they should've gone full __________ and cuffed n' stuffed the hunters, too.

This maneuver was a blatant "kill 2 birds with 1 stone" by not only attempting to sway the final 6 jurors, but to also influence the remaining jury pool in the upcoming 2020 trespass trial. Most jury candidates are on a 3 to 6 month notice, so undoubtedly the remaining 52 citizens who saw this staged act will be candidates for the new trial.

From what I understand, once the defense team heard of this, they immediately called foul and lobbied for a mistrial. The judge, the "Hon'" Susan Stipe, rejected their protest. Fortunately, 6 common sense jurors didn't take long to reach a Non Guilty verdict.

So....now in America, or at least in Carbon County, Wyoming, a Prosecutor and Judge can collaborate to influence a jury pool and it looks like they'll continue to pour on charges to the "Missouri 4" (I guess 3) until they get a verdict that'll please their decision maker, obviously Mr. Fat Cat. Other then a few online folks, I'm not seeing the the total anger at this injustice. Again, this is Banana Republic stuff and heads aren't rolling? Someone here explain to me how this in-your-face act of injustice is allowed to continue with absolutely no repercussions to the Prosecutor and Judge.

It’s all over the country. “Justice” is usually served to the monied at the expense of everyone else. This is similar to public land skiing cases. Resorts hate it when you ski on publicly owned USFS land without riding the lifts. Ask me how I know

 

[wind gypsy]

What is with everyone?

Read below. B&M all you want - I take this as saying you can't corner cross. "Not accessible without permission of a private landowner" is a dead giveaway.

Why the jury found em not guilty is messed-up. The prosecutor screwed up. He could have pulled the hunt planner map up and showed the folks what is below, then explained that corner crossing is not allowed, stopped there instead of trying to prove ill intent or whatever. Sometimes less is more.

No - I didn't watch, don't really care about corner crossing after a GW specifically told me not to do it in 2017, that it is illegal and he would ticket us if we did. Kinda figured he meant it. Lotsa folks told me he was wrong and that I should do it anyway. That was messed-up.

If I'm driving across the country to WY to hunt, I'm not gonna go on to a property that a GW tells me to stay off of and the state of WY considers generally not accessible.

If they don't punish these guys somehow, there is gonna be a large uptick in corner crossing this year and a whole bunch of new business for the GW and sheriffs.

This is from the hunt planner - ELK Unit 118 - feel free to verify it. Similar language in the antelope and deer hunt planners too.

Access Information

PUBLIC ACCESS INFO ​

Approx. % of Public Land: 70%
Access to Public Land: Fair

Access Notes - Roughly 70 percent of Area 118 is public land, with most of the private land being found in the southern half in what is called the “checkerboard,” where every other square mile is private. As a result, public lands in the checkerboard that do not touch a public road are generally not accessible without permission of a private land owner. There are few public roads, and ranches in this area tend to be large, so significant blocks of the southern portion of the area are either unavailable to hunting or available only to outfitted clients or by trespass fee. The Wyoming Game and Fish Department’s Chain Lakes WHMA provides access to ~100 square miles of public and deeded lands in the northwest corner of the checkerboard, but is too arid to hold many elk. There is good access to public land for most of the northern portion of the hunt area. View the hunt planner map for available Walk-In lands open to elk hunting.

BLM 1:100,000 Quad Maps: Rawlins, Bairoil, Red Desert

USFS Designated Wilderness Areas: None

Hunting Access in Wyoming - Public Access Summary

"Generally" not accessible.

 

[redfish]

Rich M., at risk of offending you, let me just say you're ignorant of the whole corner cross situations. "Regulations"?? Who's regulationrs? And a game warden told you that ya can't corner cross? They'll give you a ticket (the gw will) in Wyoming? Check this memo that was issued to Wyoming Game & Fish from the WY Attny general: https://www.wyoleg.gov/InterimCommittee/2019/01-2019060313-04Trespass-CornerCrossing.pdf

 

[Wyobohunter]

Rich M., at risk of offending you, let me just say you're ignorant of the whole corner cross situations. "Regulations"?? Who's regulationrs? And a game warden told you that ya can't corner cross? They'll give you a ticket (the gw will) in Wyoming? Check this memo that was issued to Wyoming Game & Fish from the WY Attny general: https://www.wyoleg.gov/InterimCommittee/2019/01-2019060313-04Trespass-CornerCrossing.pdf

It’s a big old mess that needs to be fixed. In my opinion the fix is allowing corner crossing. There is zero damage to private land. Any attempt to stop it is simply landowners trying to claim public land for themselves; “generally” for profit.

 

[Btaylor]

It’s a big old mess that needs to be fixed. In my opinion the fix is allowing corner crossing. There is zero damage to private land. Any attempt to stop it is simply landowners trying to claim public land for themselves; “generally” for profit.

Kinda like outfitters claiming all wilderness areas for profit

 

[Wyobohunter]

Kinda like outfitters claiming all wilderness areas for profit

Watcha talkin’ bout? I hunt wilderness without an outfitter

It’s also kind of like certain species requiring a guide for NR hunters in AK.

Your point is taken. Living in WY doesn’t make me more capable of surviving the big bad wilderness. That law is definitely welfare for outfitters. Even if I’ve said otherwise in the past. My point of view has changed. Even though we strongly disagree about some serious stuff, I’d rather share a mountainside with you than any outfitter in the state. I doubt you’d try to pressure me off the mountain. Lots of outfitters (not all) do that. I’ve experienced it. I’ve been generally annoyed and even downright pissed off at the antics of some DIY R and NR hunters but none have tried to pressure me out of an area.

 

[WCB]

It’s a big old mess that needs to be fixed. In my opinion the fix is allowing corner crossing. There is zero damage to private land. Any attempt to stop it is simply landowners trying to claim public land for themselves; “generally” for profit.

I'm fine with corner crossing...however if proven you touched private property and didn't cross EXACTLY at the corner...you should be fined no matter the intent. Also what happens if a land owner places a corner post on each parcel that is private. you would be absolutely forced to touch their post/property....FINE.

The air space is the real question as most of it is what is "reasonably" usable. Well a 4-5 ft fence height is pretty reasonable at a minimum.

 

[HvyBeams]

What is with everyone?

Read below. B&M all you want - I take this as saying you can't corner cross. "Not accessible without permission of a private landowner" is a dead giveaway.

Why the jury found em not guilty is messed-up. The prosecutor screwed up. He could have pulled the hunt planner map up and showed the folks what is below, then explained that corner crossing is not allowed, stopped there instead of trying to prove ill intent or whatever. Sometimes less is more.

No - I didn't watch, don't really care about corner crossing after a GW specifically told me not to do it in 2017, that it is illegal and he would ticket us if we did. Kinda figured he meant it. Lotsa folks told me he was wrong and that I should do it anyway. That was messed-up.

If I'm driving across the country to WY to hunt, I'm not gonna go on to a property that a GW tells me to stay off of and the state of WY considers generally not accessible.

If they don't punish these guys somehow, there is gonna be a large uptick in corner crossing this year and a whole bunch of new business for the GW and sheriffs.

This is from the hunt planner - ELK Unit 118 - feel free to verify it. Similar language in the antelope and deer hunt planners too.

Access Information

PUBLIC ACCESS INFO ​

Approx. % of Public Land: 70%
Access to Public Land: Fair

Access Notes - Roughly 70 percent of Area 118 is public land, with most of the private land being found in the southern half in what is called the “checkerboard,” where every other square mile is private. As a result, public lands in the checkerboard that do not touch a public road are generally not accessible without permission of a private land owner. There are few public roads, and ranches in this area tend to be large, so significant blocks of the southern portion of the area are either unavailable to hunting or available only to outfitted clients or by trespass fee. The Wyoming Game and Fish Department’s Chain Lakes WHMA provides access to ~100 square miles of public and deeded lands in the northwest corner of the checkerboard, but is too arid to hold many elk. There is good access to public land for most of the northern portion of the hunt area. View the hunt planner map for available Walk-In lands open to elk hunting.

BLM 1:100,000 Quad Maps: Rawlins, Bairoil, Red Desert

USFS Designated Wilderness Areas: None

Hunting Access in Wyoming - Public Access Summary

Jury listened to the facts and testimony and found them not guilty. You don't think they had big maps showing the jury where the alleged crime took place?

The G&F and sheriff offices don't deal with civil matters and shouldn't respond to corner crossing allegations. Hunters ARE DOING NOTHING ILLEGAL when corner crossing.

Sorry you listened to a warden who didn't know what he was talking about. They have no power in that arena and they know that.

FYI- The hunt planner is not the law. Just like BLM website posting corner crossing is illegal isn't the law. Until a federal judge rules on the matter, and his ruling has been reviewed, it's all speculation.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Also what happens if a land owner places a corner post on each parcel that is private. you would be absolutely forced to touch their post/property.

I don’t view that as any different than any other attempt to block the public from public land. I can do most things on my property up to the point of harming the surrounding public.

 

[tony]

So one elected office can tell another elected office what to do?
prosecutor orders sheriff to write tickets?

 

[redfish]

Jury listened to the facts and testimony and found them not guilty. You don't think they had big maps showing the jury where the alleged crime took place?

The G&F and sheriff offices don't deal with civil matters and shouldn't respond to corner crossing allegations. Hunters ARE DOING NOTHING ILLEGAL when corner crossing.

Sorry you listened to a warden who didn't know what he was talking about. They have no power in that arena and they know that.

FYI- The hunt planner is not the law. Just like BLM website posting corner crossing is illegal isn't the law. Until a federal judge rules on the matter, and his ruling has been reviewed, it's all speculation.

aww, let's not be to hard on Rich M. Like I said, he's either very ignorant of what he calls "the Regulations" or is just following the old internet practice of pulling BS outta' his azz. Very doubtful Rich has ever even been to Wyoming and most of us here can verify that Wardens will not address corner crossings...and haven't since 2004. Rich must of been watching Northwoods law......

 

[Wyobohunter]

It’s nearly laughable for me to say this but…

Let’s try to keep this one civil