Why WY?

[Jethro]

As most of you are aware we have another 16+ page bash WY thread going about the injustices of not getting a tag. Although it is more civil than the numerous other threads we've had in recent past, its still mostly just many of the same mouths saying the same thing over and over. I always follow them, but as I read the current one, all I can think is why is it always WY? Why don't complaint threads of other states reach mob status like WY?

We lose tags in CO, nobody says a word (or is even aware). We don't have regular threads complaining about NM where its tough as heck to get a NR tag and certainly not DIY friendly. I don't know ID, but we've gotten to the point of NR traveling across the country and camping out................just to buy the tag. My apologies to the other western states, I don't know your system. But we don't get the outrage like WY brings.

Why does WY trip everybody's trigger so much? My question is sincere. I don't get it. I love WY and yes I wish I could have a Gen tag every year. But I've got to be realistic.

 

[huntabsarokee]

Maybe because Wyoming is the last great elk state for NR? NM has poor NR draw odds for years. Colorado only has a few units that feel like you have a golden ticket. Wyoming just feels like its the last great elk spot of the West.

 

[robtattoo]

^^^
Pretty much that.
For years Wyoming was a pretty easy state to draw. General NR tags were abundant & reasonably priced. Cow tags were an almost annual guarantee & if you were wanting to enter an LE draw hunt, it was predictable. Easy to gauge how many points were required & plan accordingly, while still being able to cow hunt probably 8/10 years.

Then they moved the draw dates. Apply by the end of January & you used to know what was happening by March (I think. Might be off on that) Now you have to wait until July & if you didn't draw, well, too bad. It's too late to apply for any other state.

The sudden & rapid change of the points system for 'Trophy' species pissed off pretty well everyone that was invested in it & the fear of that spreading to Elk, Deer & Antelope became very real. Non residents had literally millions of dollars invested in points in the system & to add insult to injury WDGF then decided to dramatically raise certain prices. The reduction of tags, due to winter die off was obviously the right thing to do, but it was initially announced AFTER the application period. In fact, WDGF have been announcing tag numbers & allocations after the application period for a while now.

Because of all of the above, or at least a combination of factors, point creep sky rocketed.

The outfitter welfare displayed by the State is quite frankly sickening. The whole 'Wilderness Area' thing leaves a bad taste in many mouths. I know the state own the wildlife & I'm not arguing that at all, but it's blatant outfitter welfare. WOGA seem to have a disproportionate say in what goes on in the State wildlife commission & they're taken as representing all residents, it seems.

Resident pushback against non-residents is unreal. More so than in any other state, even though non-residents fund a disproportionate amount of the WDGF, with zero representation. Resident tag costs are stupidly low, in comparison to non-res & they never seem to go up, while non-res tags get further restricted & more expensive, year by year.

TLDR: Residents want our money AND our tags & we can go screw ourselves if we think that's unfair.

 

[Ranger 692]

UT, MT, AZ, NM, ID are all 90/10 for elk.

WY NR tag %:

• Elk: 16%
• Deer: 20%
• Moose: 20%
• Mountain Goat: 25%
• Bighorn Sheep: 25%
• Antelope: 20%

I don’t get it either.

 

[squid-freshprints]

They are triggered because they are envious of Wyoming's' bounty. If they were residents their position would reverse polarity immediately. If they were residents they would pay for their tags in boredom and freeze chapped skin. As a Colorado resident I am jealous too! I wish we would take their lead but leave the outfitters in the cold. (also 100 dollar non res overlander permit please. Holy chips! these nerds are everywhere!)

 

[Jethro]

Maybe because Wyoming is the last great elk state for NR? NM has poor NR draw odds for years. Colorado only has a few units that feel like you have a golden ticket. Wyoming just feels like its the last great elk spot of the West.

It's still great. But they can't just give a tag to every NR that wants one. Do that and what do you get? Colorado. That would be something to bitch about.

 

[huntabsarokee]

I wasn’t offering a solution just a reason why people are upset. People like to bitch.

 

[mntnguide]

UT, MT, AZ, NM, ID are all 90/10 for elk.

WY NR tag %:

• Elk: 16%
• Deer: 20%
• Moose: 20%
• Mountain Goat: 25%
• Bighorn Sheep: 25%
• Antelope: 20%

I don’t get it either.

moose/bighorn/mt goat went to 10% this year...Which is the same as most states now

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

It's not just WY. People are losing their minds about the current situation in Idaho too. When we get closer to MT draw deadline there will be a multi-page thread about general tags there as well. It's really an overall squeeze on general elk tags in all states. I think most people can see what's on the horizon and they don't like it but can't do a damn thing about it.

 

[Ranger 692]

moose/bighorn/mt goat went to 10% this year...Which is the same as most states now

That’s right I had forgotten that. But elk/deer/antelope have not and those are what most people are referring to and would argue matter to WY residents the most.

 

[wapitibob]

Then they moved the draw dates. Apply by the end of January & you used to know what was happening by March (I think. Might be off on that) Now you have to wait until July & if you didn't draw, well, too bad. It's too late to apply for any other state.

The sudden & rapid change of the points system for 'Trophy' species pissed off pretty well everyone that was invested in it & the fear of that spreading to Elk, Deer & Antelope became very real. Non residents had literally millions of dollars invested in points in the system & to add insult to injury WDGF then decided to dramatically raise certain prices. The reduction of tags, due to winter die off was obviously the right thing to do, but it was initially announced AFTER the application period. In fact, WDGF have been announcing tag numbers & allocations after the application period for a while now.

WG&F didn't raise any prices, they don't have the authority.

The reason for the change to the Elk draw was to enable NR to see the quota changes and have the ability to modify their apps. Something they couldn't do prior, unless they submitted a public info request.

The cuts to D/A last year were made and published over a month before the season setting meeting, and 2 1/2 months before the close of the app period.

 

[cmahoney]

I don’t get it, I think people just like to complain. We all have an advantage and a say in one state as a resident. When CO OTC goes away I’ll bet those threads will beat the WY ones.


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[BigNate]

People still want tags for Wyoming. The elk numbers have dropped in my part of Idaho by enough that this year I think I actually saw less NR plates. Up here we always see Apple Magot plates, year round, but far less Oregon and California plates from what I remember.

 

[TaperPin]

entitlement /ɪnˈtaɪtl̟mənt/ noun
plural entitlements
Britannica Dictionary definition of ENTITLEMENT
1
. . .
b : the feeling or belief that you deserve to be given something (such as special privileges)

 

[Jethro]

I don’t get it, I think people just like to complain. We all have an advantage and a say in one state as a resident. When CO OTC goes away I’ll bet those threads will beat the WY ones.


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I agree with 1/2. People love to complain.

I don't agree with CO. Partially why I started the thread. CO is crowded, we all know that. Residents way more vocal about it than WY residents. Even NR are saying we have to restrict NR. For 2024 NR lost 10% of tags, likely to lose OTC in 25. But no big bash threads.

WY we haven't lost anything. Same number of NR will hunt there as every year. Yes, it will cost more for some. But they'll experience the same great hunting we're accustomed to. Yet many complain.

 

[LostArra]

Antlers

NR complaints center around a Type 1 tag. Residents want more Type 1 tags in the LE hunt areas. I don't blame them.

I enjoy elk hunting every fall and it is fun whether I can shoot a bull or not. For either group to complain about elk hunting opportunities is ridiculous if you take antlers out of the equation.

Wyoming is the focus of the griping because it is such a great state to hunt and has been for so long. Now it's just going to get a little pricier but what isn't?

(The point system is antiquated and becoming worthless. The wilderness rule is just dumb)

 

[dieselchessy]

For me it’s the perceived value of the investment.
Wyoming preference points and the time it takes to gather them have an easily quantifiable value. You can see what they are worth somewhat easily even with points creep.
But when Wyoming makes a change that value can be very negatively impacted.

The other states I apply in, Nevada, Idaho, Alaska, Washington have no points or bonus point systems where the points have very little to no value. You just toss in your money every year with little hope of a return or of building a position.
Those states could change their systems drastically and the impact would be minimal.

States with Preference points bring forth a vested interest from participants unlike Bonus point or no point states.

Yes, I understand it’s a “perceived” value and Wyoming owes me nothing.

 

[Steve O]

I’d say a lot of the vitriol is hurt feelings from being bullied by a “no nonsense” former member.

I got screwed in the bait and switch sheep point Ponzi scheme Wyoming pulled over my 25 years in the system. I went from 50% chance to draw the only tag I really wanted in Wyoming to no chance of ever drawing it. Well, maybe a 1:6000 chance…for the one random tag that may be available to us worthless NR.

I’ve got max deer points, near max antelope points, and a gigantic pile of elk points to share with my son once his schooling is over and odds are pretty good they will all be worthless in very short order.

Guys get frustrated when they play by the rules, get the shaft, then have others laugh in their face and tell them they are POS; fund more of my game department more, eat those massive price increase and tag decreases, and make sure you hire an outfitter.

If I were a Wyoming resident I’d be fighting for more opportunities I’m sure. I would have more compassion for all those whose dreams were being crushed though.

 

[robtattoo]

WG&F didn't raise any prices, they don't have the authority.

So who did? LE special bull applications went up by (I believe) $825? Who did that if not WDGF

The reason for the change to the Elk draw was to enable NR to see the quota changes and have the ability to modify their apps. Something they couldn't do prior, unless they submitted a public info request.

Who asked for that though? Since NR don't really get a say in what goes on, is that actually true, or is it "It's too dangerous for NR to hunt the Wilderness alone" true?

The cuts to D/A last year were made and published over a month before the season setting meeting, and 2 1/2 months before the close of the app period.

I'll stand corrected on that. I've only applied for elk & haven't paid attention to D&A since antelope tags became unobtainable for the 2 units I ever hunted. My bad.

 

[robtattoo]

I’d say a lot of the vitriol is hurt feelings from being bullied by a “no nonsense” former member.

I got screwed in the bait and switch sheep point Ponzi scheme Wyoming pulled over my 25 years in the system. I went from 50% chance to draw the only tag I really wanted in Wyoming to no chance of ever drawing it. Well, maybe a 1:6000 chance…for the one random tag that may be available to us worthless NR.

I’ve got max deer points, near max antelope points, and a gigantic pile of elk points to share with my son once his schooling is over and odds are pretty good they will all be worthless in very short order.

Guys get frustrated when they play by the rules, get the shaft, then have others laugh in their face and tell them they are POS; fund more of my game department more, eat those massive price increase and tag decreases, and make sure you hire an outfitter.

If I were a Wyoming resident I’d be fighting for more opportunities I’m sure. I would have more compassion for all those whose dreams were being crushed though.

Same for me with Moose. I went from a 90% shot in 2025 (had trends remained consistent to the preceding 15 years) to absolute zero chance for at least the next 40 years.