We need to start lobbying for point system reform

[Jethro]

Residents of any state with the mind set "muh state owns muh wildlife, I'm entitled to every tag and unit, we don't need no non-resident hunters,

but residents of those states are too worried about getting their tag and not prolonging the tradition and privilege of hunting.

When you actually meet and speak with residents of western states and get to know them in person rather than from a keyboard and screen, you'll find that very, very, very few of them think the way your two statements portray them.

 

[jmez]

We all make choices and sacrifices. We all have to live with them. Some choose to recognize and accept the responsibility for their choices. Others choose to blame others and expect a solution.

 

[danhuntingmi]

We all make choices and sacrifices. We all have to live with them. Some choose to recognize and accept the responsibility for their choices. Others choose to blame others and expect a solution.

This is why, in my opinion, we need to change laws such that you get automatic tags to hunt within 10 miles of your primary residence. That along with special seasons.

You can imagine how disconcerting it is when you made a choice to live somewhere and people who chose to live elsewhere show up to hunt on public land as if they are someone who chose to live where you do.

To be honest, more federal involvement or otherwise nationwide subsistence hunting perks and cutouts for local residents keep sounding better and better.

 

[CorbLand]

This is why, in my opinion, we need to change laws such that you get automatic tags to hunt within 10 miles of your primary residence. That along with special seasons.

You can imagine how disconcerting it is when you made a choice to live somewhere and people who chose to live elsewhere show up to hunt on public land as if they are someone who chose to live where you do.

To be honest, more federal involvement or otherwise nationwide subsistence hunting perks and cutouts for local residents keep sounding better and better.

I have said, read and heard some really dumb things in my short life but this, this might be the top one. At least the top five.

 

[diamond10x]

When you actually meet and speak with residents of western states and get to know them in person rather than from a keyboard and screen, you'll find that very, very, very few of them think the way your two statements portray them.

I've met plenty of them and it was not a blanket statement of all residents of western states. It was for the one's you hear and read remarks from who basically spit in the face of anyone who doesn't live in their but wants to hunt in said state that I'm referring to. Just making a point for the one's who constantly hate on anyone who is a NR of whichever state it may be will one day realize they were cutting off their nose to spite their face when it comes to the future of hunting.

 

[WTFJohn]

I've met plenty of them and it was not a blanket statement of all residents of western states. It was for the one's you hear and read remarks from who basically spit in the face of anyone who doesn't live in their but wants to hunt in said state that I'm referring to. Just making a point for the one's who constantly hate on anyone who is a NR of whichever state it may be will one day realize they were cutting off their nose to spite their face when it comes to the future of hunting.

I welcome NR to hunt in CO, and regularly introduce NR friends and family to big game hunting in the west. I also explain to them how fragile the resource can be, and how tag allocations are already throttled based on populations and hunting pressure.

I have little patience for NR (or R for that matter) that want to change the system to benefit themselves more without even understanding the reasons behind why things are the way they are. They want to form an online coalition to make a difference, without even lifting a finger to get involved in the current system or processes. The current system isn't perfect, but you should at least have a basic grasp of the fundamentals of wildlife management before trying to come up with a new "equality" based system.

How many NR time their summer scouting trip to line up with a CPW commission meeting or a roundtable? What about helping with elk calving surveys, or sheep studies? Do they come back in late winter to shoot coyotes to help next years fawns? What about helping with old fence removal? CPW game camera studies? Do they do anything to help improve the resource, or is it purely consumptive?

Hunting is absolutely under attack, especially in Colorado with the ballot proposal to ban "trophy hunting" of lions and bobcats. That's step one to all hunting being at risk.

I am in a rural area of Colorado with heavy recreational usage and reintroduced wolves on the ground. There is new development happening all across winter range. We've had record winterkill and tag numbers in some areas have been slashed by over 4,000 LE tags down to the legal minimums. We are not unique, elsewhere in the west has seen record winter, rains, & fires alongside record human population growth and an explosion in outdoor recreation; yet we have guys clamoring the system needs to change to allow them to hunt more and/or for less money. And if they don't get what they want, they will stop supporting the animals/resource they claim to love.

Everyone wants to elk hunt on Friday afternoon, but come Monday morning are you clocking in to do any of the real work?

 

[3forks]

I've met plenty of them and it was not a blanket statement of all residents of western states. It was for the one's you hear and read remarks from who basically spit in the face of anyone who doesn't live in their but wants to hunt in said state that I'm referring to. Just making a point for the one's who constantly hate on anyone who is a NR of whichever state it may be will one day realize they were cutting off their nose to spite their face when it comes to the future of hunting.

Something you may want to consider is that the ideas you have and posted in this discussion are so misinformed and unrealistic - that when you meet/interact resident western hunters - they are probably reacting to how you personally come across and what you feel you’re entitled to.

If you had any opinions that were based in reality and didn’t come across as so entitled, you’d most likely get a warmer reception.

 

[Lawnboi]

Better get along here soon. Remember that spring bear season you were entitled to?

 

[IdahoBeav]

In my opinion every American should have the same right to hunt on federal lands on the same license as a state resident. Period.

This is why, in my opinion, we need to change laws such that you get automatic tags to hunt within 10 miles of your primary residence. That along with special seasons.

You can imagine how disconcerting it is when you made a choice to live somewhere and people who chose to live elsewhere show up to hunt on public land as if they are someone who chose to live where you do.

To be honest, more federal involvement or otherwise nationwide subsistence hunting perks and cutouts for local residents keep sounding better and better.

Are you trolling in two different directions?

 

[Jethro]

Are you trolling in two different directions?

I think he turned to sharp and got all his lines tangled.

 

[diamond10x]

Hunting is absolutely under attack, especially in Colorado with the ballot proposal to ban "trophy hunting" of lions and bobcats. That's step one to all hunting being at risk.

This right here is the exact point I was trying to get to. Hunting is under attack in a lot of places, not just specifically CO but its probably the biggest issue at the moment. Money from outside of CO is being used to fund this stuff to misinform and persuade people who have no clue about game management, predator management, or even nature in general. Instead of resident hunters trying to gain sympathy or help from outside hunting sources, i.e. nonresident hunters, to fight the ballot proposal with funds or whatever it may be, they push to cut non resident quotas first. It's human nature for people when they think they're being cutoff, cutout, discriminated against they will be much less inclined to help however that may be. I see it as shooting yourself in the foot for the short term gain to only lose it all down the road.

I've seen first hand what over issued deer tags coupled with hard winters, season date changes, and population growth will do to herd quality and quantity. It's a sad state of affairs for deer in CO. In several units I used to hunt with resident buddies, 15 years ago I noticed a steep decline and was of the opinion tag numbers needed to get cut but CPW seemed to give out more.

 

[diamond10x]

Something you may want to consider is that the ideas you have and posted in this discussion are so misinformed and unrealistic - that when you meet/interact resident western hunters - they are probably reacting to how you personally come across and what you feel you’re entitled to.

If you had any opinions that were based in reality and didn’t come across as so entitled, you’d most likely get a warmer reception.

Where in any of this discussion did I say or allude to being entitled to anything? Where did I say ALL resident hunters? Either your reading comprehension is off or my way of explaining the point I was trying to make wasn't very good.

I've met and interacted with a lot of resident hunters in a lot of states and can only think of two instances where resident hunters acted like A holes, and they just had a stick in their craw for anyone with a different license plate. Both times they treated everyone in the cafe and hotel that way that didn't have in state license plates, everyone I've met in the field has been quite the opposite. Maybe rokslide is a microcosm but there is more hate for nonresidents on here than I have encountered anywhere.

 

[KurtR]

This is why, in my opinion, we need to change laws such that you get automatic tags to hunt within 10 miles of your primary residence. That along with special seasons.

You can imagine how disconcerting it is when you made a choice to live somewhere and people who chose to live elsewhere show up to hunt on public land as if they are someone who chose to live where you do.

To be honest, more federal involvement or otherwise nationwide subsistence hunting perks and cutouts for local residents keep sounding better and better.

 

[CorbLand]

Where in any of this discussion did I say or allude to being entitled to anything? Where did I say ALL resident hunters? Either your reading comprehension is off or my way of explaining the point I was trying to make wasn't very good.

I've met and interacted with a lot of resident hunters in a lot of states and can only think of two instances where resident hunters acted like A holes, and they just had a stick in their craw for anyone with a different license plate. Both times they treated everyone in the cafe and hotel that way that didn't have in state license plates, everyone I've met in the field has been quite the opposite. Maybe rokslide is a microcosm but there is more hate for nonresidents on here than I have encountered anywhere.

I have been around this place for a long time and I cant say that I have seen the amount of hate for nonresidents people seem to think there is here. Yes, there are a couple people that have pushed towards hating nonresidents but the vast majority do not hate them.

The bottom line is this. Animals are owned by the state and the state should manage those for the residents of that state. Anything a state chooses to allocate to nonresidents is a privilege. Nonresidents can state their opinion that states should allocate more to nonresidents but in the end, the state does not have to listen to them at all. If that is considered nonresident hate, well, then yes, a lot on here hate nonresidents because this is by far the mentality that most have around here.

Its kind of like when someone from the UK says what the US should do. Yea, its cool that they have an opinion but we really dont care about it.

 

[WTFJohn]

This right here is the exact point I was trying to get to. Hunting is under attack in a lot of places, not just specifically CO but its probably the biggest issue at the moment. Money from outside of CO is being used to fund this stuff to misinform and persuade people who have no clue about game management, predator management, or even nature in general. Instead of resident hunters trying to gain sympathy or help from outside hunting sources, i.e. nonresident hunters, to fight the ballot proposal with funds or whatever it may be, they push to cut non resident quotas first. It's human nature for people when they think they're being cutoff, cutout, discriminated against they will be much less inclined to help however that may be. I see it as shooting yourself in the foot for the short term gain to only lose it all down the road.

I've seen first hand what over issued deer tags coupled with hard winters, season date changes, and population growth will do to herd quality and quantity. It's a sad state of affairs for deer in CO. In several units I used to hunt with resident buddies, 15 years ago I noticed a steep decline and was of the opinion tag numbers needed to get cut but CPW seemed to give out more.

So you understand then that there are fewer elk and deer, and that there is continued pressure of growth into winter range. I'd like you to point to the area where we can sustain more tags. We aren't cutting tags to spite NR, we are cutting them because the quality of the hunt and the resource itself is being degraded.

My point is if people love the resource like they proclaim to on here, that means actually standing up and putting your dollars & energy towards it ESPECIALLY when you don't draw a tag, because it won't get any easier for anyone (R or NR) from here on out.

Conservation isn't punching your CC in during a draw then standing up and saying "I did my part". It's donating time/energy/money to the groups that stand up for the resource if you can't lend your voice as a R. It sure as hell isn't trying to coerce or blackmail residents into giving more opportunity for NR with an ominous 'or else' type of connotation at the end.

 

[Phaseolus]

This right here is the exact point I was trying to get to. Hunting is under attack in a lot of places, not just specifically CO but its probably the biggest issue at the moment. Money from outside of CO is being used to fund this stuff to misinform and persuade people who have no clue about game management, predator management, or even nature in general. Instead of resident hunters trying to gain sympathy or help from outside hunting sources, i.e. nonresident hunters, to fight the ballot proposal with funds or whatever it may be, they push to cut non resident quotas first. It's human nature for people when they think they're being cutoff, cutout, discriminated against they will be much less inclined to help however that may be. I see it as shooting yourself in the foot for the short term gain to only lose it all down the road.

I've seen first hand what over issued deer tags coupled with hard winters, season date changes, and population growth will do to herd quality and quantity. It's a sad state of affairs for deer in CO. In several units I used to hunt with resident buddies, 15 years ago I noticed a steep decline and was of the opinion tag numbers needed to get cut but CPW seemed to give out more.

The introduction of wolves and the potential ban of lion hunting, trapping, etc is a ballot issue. NR won’t be of much help unless you send a bunch of money to fight it.

 

[danhuntingmi]

When you actually meet and speak with residents of western states and get to know them in person rather than from a keyboard and screen, you'll find that very, very, very few of them think the way your two statements portray them.

I completely believe you but you yourself seem to mention that internet forums would lead some people to think otherwise. Also, this doesn't just pertain the western residents.

I have said, read and heard some really dumb things in my short life but this, this might be the top one. At least the top five.

Well, given that this comment may have been, in some ways, intended as a mirror for you to look into....

Are you trolling in two different directions?

I don't know. I may think that ideally people should have equal access to federal land. But given what I've learned from this thread, I've learned to rationalize my beliefs against more peaceful hunting for me, longer hunting seasons for me, and what this might mean for my personal property value. While you may see disagreement, others may see me learning the ropes from others and re-evaluating my opinion.

 

[CorbLand]

I completely believe you but you yourself seem to mention that internet forums would lead some people to think otherwise. Also, this doesn't just pertain the western residents.

Well, given that this comment may have been, in some ways, intended as a mirror for you to look into....

I don't know. I may think that ideally people should have equal access to federal land. But given what I've learned from this thread, I've learned to rationalize my beliefs against more peaceful hunting for me, longer hunting seasons for me, and what this might mean for my personal property value. While you may see disagreement, others may see me learning the ropes from others and re-evaluating my opinion.

Just got done brushing my teeth. Looked in the mirror the entire time. Still not as dumb as that comment.

 

[LostWapiti]

I hate it. Every hunter and their dog can put in for the premium units with no risk because they can keep their general tag if they don’t draw the LE.

When there is no risk you’ll increase applicants every single time.

I also hate how if you don’t draw the general you don’t even have a shot in the LE.

If I didn’t already have a bunch of points in MT I would not start applying there and would not recommend others do it. The system just feels slimy to me.