Where are my anti-debt/credit card people at?

[ShelbyHunter]

I definitely have an aversion to CC debt. I've never paid any interest on a CC since the first day I got a CC back in the 80's in college. I do tend to use cash for most local low dollar things, but pretty difficult to buy stuff online without a CC. My dad was CC free for decades, but when they made it impossible to rent a car on trips without a CC.......he caved and got one.

Being in the accounting/finance business for 42 years and coming from a generation that believed in hard, working “smart” and saving a little bit of each check, I have always used a CC as a form of payment as opposed to a type of loan. Rule of thumb: always use someone else’s money if it doesn’t cost you anything. Always pay off credit card debt when it is due. As for debit cards, they are just a paperless form of writing a check from your checking account. Banks love them because they charge a processing fee while their administrative costs decrease cuz they don’t need as many employees to handle the paper. The biggest negative about DC’s is they don’t provide the protections CC’s do regarding purchases. Any valid disputes you have with a seller or fraudulent CC use are the responsibility of the CC company. If you used a DC, you’re on your own for the most part.

 

[dpat]

My point on the "study" statement about 401k usage is just an example. Read literally, the "study" suggests that EVERY one of the 10k who supposedly replied (or participated - it's not clear) had a salaried job that offered a 401k plan and that 80% of them participated in it. If you were able to somehow find 10k "millionaires" (however defined) and got all of them to reply to this particular question (doubtful), I would bet any amount of money that not 100% of them were salaried employees AND with a 401k option. There's not a single millionaire who was self-employed, or worked at a "regular job" but that the employer didn't offer a 401k plan?

I've owned a company for 21 years and have a 401k thru the company as all the employees do. I would think that lots of self-employed people have that option.

 

[fwafwow]

I've owned a company for 21 years and have a 401k thru the company as all the employees do. I would think that lots of self-employed people have that option.

I see that I’m just not able to make clear the point.

 

[MattB]

My point on the "study" statement about 401k usage is just an example. Read literally, the "study" suggests that EVERY one of the 10k who supposedly replied (or participated - it's not clear) had a salaried job that offered a 401k plan and that 80% of them participated in it. If you were able to somehow find 10k "millionaires" (however defined) and got all of them to reply to this particular question (doubtful), I would bet any amount of money that not 100% of them were salaried employees AND with a 401k option. There's not a single millionaire who was self-employed, or worked at a "regular job" but that the employer didn't offer a 401k plan?

This is the 401-K comment from the link you posted.

"According to the survey, 8 out of 10 millionaires invested in their company’s 401(k) plan, and that simple step was a key to their financial success. Not only that, but 3 out of 4 of those surveyed also invested outside of company plans."

No where does it say EVERY participant had a salaried job that offered a 401K plan. Just that 8 of 10 participants that were millionaires participated in one.

Such a weird hill to die on....

 

[fwafwow]

Such a weird hill to die on....

Totally agree. Rabbit holes are sometimes my specialty

 

[Mike Islander]

Pro credit card, anti-debt. Love my Delta Amex. ALWAYS pay it off every month. The Skymiles generated have taken me to Costa Rica multiple times, Nicaragua, the Maldives, Dubai, etc.

Only debt is my mortgage, but not much longer, plus tons of equity is money in the bank land.

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

One thing rarely mentioned in these arguments is that Dave Ramsey’s advice is for people who are fundamentally BAD with money. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the right program for a normal person with self control.

You could say the same thing regarding alcoholics, or those who struggle with overeating/obesity. The advice would be “throw away all the junk food in your house!” If a person can eat a handful of chips with a sandwich or a single cookie instead of binging on the entire bag, they don’t need to follow the same advice.

If you can’t keep yourself from walking through a store and buying a bunch of crap you don’t need and can’t afford with a credit card, then stop using them.

Money is a tool. Credit cards are a tool. Debt is a tool. Tools can be helpful or dangerous depending on how they are used.

Credit cards offer a level of security/insurance particularly when buying plane tickets, hotel rooms, rental cars, HUNTS, etc. How many threads have there been where guys made deposits via check, outfitter has ghosted them, and the responses are “sorry, that sucks.”

FWIW, I use credit cards personally and nearly always pay them off each month. I don‘t use credit cards in my business as we run a ton of money through for materials, etc, often drawn out over several months on some jobs, and I don’t want the headache, stress, and tax implications of dealing with it. I prefer to take deposits on certain projects, have a cash reserve to float us, and a business line of credit to use if necessary.

 

[Mike Islander]

One thing rarely mentioned in these arguments is that Dave Ramsey’s advice is for people who are fundamentally BAD with money. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the right program for a normal THE RARE person with self control.

FIFY

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Not rich,not even close but have no debt for 20 years,same house for 25 years,2000 toyota,2016 lexus,3 kids and its been tough sometimes getting everyone to live that lifestyle,but when things happen like car problems,freezer quits,sons broken femur etc its never a stresser.It sucks to cough up the cash but its better than the stress.
My dad was married 5 times and i saw that as a kid,i knew that money would be a major issue and i learned from the start to save and be frugal.I was and am not for credit cards but have eased up because my wife has to use one for work travel,she goes overseas etc.
While i am against them they do have some good features once you are debt free and never going back.We enjoy the protection you get as well as the points for travel.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Btw
Dave ramsey is great for alot of things and especially dumbing it down.Alot of people are truly ignorant about money.Most people that are not dont need his advise.
I just paid my middle daughter (15)100.00 each for two book reports this last year.One book was The total money makeover and the other was The richest kid in babylon.Both books cost me less than 10.00 and will hopefully save me or them 1000 times that.

 

[Mike Islander]

Btw
Dave ramsey is great for alot of things and especially dumbing it down.Alot of people are truly ignorant about money.Most people that are not dont need his advise.
I just paid my middle daughter (15)100.00 each for two book reports this last year.One book was The total money makeover and the other was The richest kid in babylon.Both books cost me less than 10.00 and will hopefully save me or them 1000 time that.

Good job, dad. One of the best investments you ever made!

 

[JasonWi]

Sadly I think a large majority of people are never taught how to be good with money as their (enter whoever raised them) don’t know themselves.

I will admit that was me and unfortunately, my ex-wife and I were very much keeping up with the Jones’s until our divorce six years ago…making two good salaries and we both came from poor parents so we had zero firsthand knowledge of budgeting and living below our means…she still lives this way!

Not until after the divorce and I was left providing for two kids, all bills, mortgage, school loans, etc and was broke..every payday for another month…that I knew I needed a change.

Dave came along a few years into my own version of becoming debt free. What he did for me — was dumb it down enough on key points to sink it in, and from there I finished the debt snowball. That’s been 28 months now.

I don’t follow his advice to the T anymore, because I disagreed with a few things of his and wanted to be making informed decisions not following along blindly. But I can’t say his advice wasn’t instrumental in my success.

So from someone who has been poor, was “wealthy”(by outside perception only) to poor again, now living way below my means, contribute 15% into a separate 401k program in addition to my works pension…it’s good to sometimes fail miserably so we can climb back up smarter and more aware of the “off the rails” behaviors that originally took us to bad places.

I’m not a millionaire YET —but with another 16 years of working to go and dedication to the process I certainly think it’s possible to achieve.

 

[browning2480]

I will say that Rokslide must have the most disciplined credit card users in the world. Statistics show that the majority of credit card users carry a balance, but not the group here on Rokslide. Everyone that has posted about using them pays them off every month lol. I am sure some of you do but I would bet most are just talking the talk and not walking the walk. At least percentages would say that.

But I could be wrong and those here are Rokslide are the exception. If so, great!!

 

[dirtytough]

I will say that Rokslide must have the most disciplined credit card users in the world. Statistics show that the majority of credit card users carry a balance, but not the group here on Rokslide. Everyone that has posted about using them pays them off every month lol. I am sure some of you do but I would bet most are just talking the talk and not walking the walk. At least percentages would say that.

But I could be wrong and those here are Rokslide are the exception. If so, great!!

Maybe all the RS’ers that carry a balance haven’t responded to the thread? There are only 250 posts and most are by the same posters. So probably 50 different RS’ers in the thread. How many RS’ers are there? 15,000?

It’s a tiny percentage of RS’ers that have responded. Not too many people are going to respond to any thread and say yea I suck at blank. In this case managing money.

 

[browning2480]

Maybe all the RS’ers that carry a balance haven’t responded to the thread? There are only 250 posts and most are by the same posters. So probably 50 different RS’ers in the thread. How many RS’ers are there? 15,000?

It’s a tiny percentage of RS’ers that have responded. Not too many people are going to respond to any thread and say yea I suck at blank. In this case managing money.

True but I also know people. Many will defend what they do by speaking talking points and not really what they are doing in their personal life. I am just playing the percentages like a good baseball guy. Again just an assumption and I could be wrong. But I would bet there are a few who have posted here that actually do carry a balance and pay interest but won’t ever admit it to anyone.

 

[street]

Interest is either working for you or against you

 

[long hunter]

No credit cards, house paid for, two vehicles paid for and closing in on the last few payments for the third, only bills are regular household expenses, live a good life for the wife and I, go hunting fishing when I want to. Never made sense to pay extreme fees and interest on a credit card. If we want something we buy it with cash or save until we have the cash.

 

[dirtytough]

True but I also know people. Many will defend what they do by speaking talking points and not really what they are doing in their personal life. I am just playing the percentages like a good baseball guy. Again just an assumption and I could be wrong. But I would bet there are a few who have posted here that actually do carry a balance and pay interest but won’t ever admit it to anyone.

Could be.


(Not directed at you browning2480)
I just bought some hockey stuff for the kid and a scope. The hockey stuff was $618.. and the scope was $1728.05. I got 2% back by using the CC. That’s $46.92 back. To me it’s worth it.

 

[Billy Goat]

Perhaps the number of RS'ers responding to this thread is similar to the millionaires that respond to a random questionnaire.

 

[long hunter]

Know a person who let credit cards drive this person into bankruptcy, and perhaps doing so again. Living a champagne life on a beer budget.