Unpopular Opinion: I don't like Dave Ramsey

[voltage]

Yeah, if you don't yet know that you shouldn't be buying something you cannot afford on a CC and paying 25% interest...

.....thats Ramseys target audience and it appears to be larger than I thought. <face palm>

Approximately half of Americans have credit card debt. Even if it’s stupid, it’s extremely common.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I’ve lived it and I’m not ashamed to say I’ve been there.

I was the typical American making a six figure income in our household (in the early 90s) and was dead broke and in debt. But man did I have a lot of cool toys and thought I impressed everyone.

I started listening to Dave and just by applying what he speaks of and my wife and I paid off well into six figures of debt in 30 months.

There was a period of time when we were 100% debt free with very nice incomes and it was extremely satisfying.

I’ve managed to pay cash for some very expensive items, ie 3 kids through college, 2 girl weddings, multiple out of country trips, multiple vehicles, the house and property of our dreams.

All the while contributing to retirement and do pretty much anything we want.

So for all of you crapping on Dave and what he teaches, screw you. It literally changed my life and our country could benefit from more people following his advice.

 

[go_deep]

@Mike D Texas great job changing your family trajectory!!

I pretty much was in the same boat as above, six figures and broke, and then as Dave says, Murphy came a calling. Company I work for went broke, everyone lost their job, lost my health insurance with a 5 month pregnant wife. By the time my daughter was born and medical bills paid, we had nothing left. We never had CC debt even, just simply dollar in, dollar out.
15 years later were only 3 months away from paying off our mortgage, on track to retire at 55 with way more than what we'll need, and by the way my wife is a stay at home Mom, and I'm not really making much more than previously, just making ever dollar have a purpose.

Most people, most, not all people that crap on Dave are just jealous because they don't have the will power or the willingness to kick they're ego to the curb and follow out a plan like he teaches.

 

[grossklw]

I made that original post 4.5 years ago and don’t see anything that’s changed other than my wealth exponentially growing at a rate much higher than it would’ve been had I gone his route.

Or- The people crapping on him (me included) just simply don’t agree with his advice for people who are not in a financially compromised position (all my original points I’d double down on and still haven’t wavered). I’m not saying he doesn’t have an audience that benefit from him, but it sure as hell isn’t me. His advice on saving is about the only thing I agree with, I think his investing recommendations are complete and total crap, it takes me all of 10 minutes a year to reallocate my stock portfolio and I’ll beat 100% if his mutual funds when you take their fees. I can’t imagine the hundreds of thousands of dollars putting my stock portfolio in a mutual fund instead of an index fund would cost me at retirement age. He lost everything in real estate at one point, maybe don’t leverage to the gills and you won’t have that issue?

His audience in my opinion is people that struggle with their finances. The last 10 pages of this thread confirm that looking at it. Most everyone in this thread that loves him for the most part had a time in their life where they were hanging by their ballsack in debt. Just really feel there are so many better strategies than him for people with a net worth above zero.

 

[TxRPLS]

I’d much rather follow mmm, but Ramsey has his sweet spot for a lot of people. What drives me nuts is his pushing. That his way is the only Christian way to view finances.


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[insanelupus]

Dave Ramsey is a business man with a very unplesant experience with debt. He found a method of living without debt which offers a level of peace and a market which can help people do the same. It may not be for everyone and everyone gets to choose a different path forward if they wish. Part of his method includes a lower tolerance to risk which moves money to less of a math problem and more of a values question.

And, like it or not, it works for some. Others don't care for it. Just because you don't like the principals he uses, doesn't make them bad ideas.

If accumulating wealth at all costs is your goal, maybe it won't suit you. If accumulating wealth and experiencing a reduced anxiety regarding debt is your goal, his system makes sense.

At the end of the day, net worth is still assessed the same way, total assets minus total liabilities/debt equals net worth.

But that equitation can only quantify the math problem, not the stress of debt.

 

[mostlybirch]

Ramsey is great for broke low IQ individuals and those who have a high enough income where they can use cash to buy assets and have no need or desire to double or triple their net worth.If I would have followed his advice at 20 instead of buying rental properties I would still be hunting out west 7 days a year instead of 50+

Punch down on poor folk and humble brag your wealth in the same post, impressive!

Unfortunately fiscal responsibility, compound interest, etc is largely untaught in the school system and this is the result. If you have any understanding of those concepts, Dave Ramsey is not for you. For the unwashed masses, he might be the first they've heard of a balanced budget.

 

[Marble]

I see the most common difference between people who dislike Ramseys advice versus the people who like his advice, which is the recognition of the existence of unforeseen and uncontrollable risks in life that can have devastating consequences. When these circumstances happen, divorce, death, disease, lawsuits, dumb people, job loss, crippling accidents, economic disasters, etc., if you have debt in these situations, it creates a potential for you to lose control. I've experienced these moments in life that punch you right in the face, and had I carried a large debt (the first time i had some debt), my choices would have been limited.

So, I build my financial home on a rock instead of a beach that can erode away. It gives me the freedom to make the choices that are best for my family's future.

It's not the end of the world if you have a car payment, but it's a slippery slope.

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[Coopsdaddy]

Well I agree but his advise isn’t for seasoned investors or the wealthy.
It’s for beginners and theres not many that give solid simple advise.
Just do his baby steps like most people and by than you will or should have learned enough to invest on your own.
Don’t listen to him is the easy button.
I don’t listen to him now other than when he was on Shawn Ryan.
15-20 years ago his advise help propel me and my wife substantially.

 

[Deadfall]

I'm a no debt guy myself. I hate being married to bills

 

[Zak406]

What it comes down to is there is more than one way to skin a cat

Myself- I don’t like debt and as such at 35 I am on track to retire plenty early. Will I be Warren buffet no but at the same time I would say I am above average for my age.

I also see the other side you can make money on debt no doubt but at the end of the day you got to have two things a brain and a set of balls.

Figure out where you are and go for it.

I would not hesitate in a few years taking out a mortgage on a rental or apartment building but only when I’m ready

 

[Bachto]

I am pretty big Dave fan, I don't like payments and I like the peace of mind. I also, disagree with him on things from time to time. This has been said one way or another but he's literally talking to cocaine addicts but replace cocaine with debt. You can't tell an addict it's okay to use every once in awhile. You have to never do it again. He it literally the 12 step for debt (Baby steps as he calls it).

Which is why it irritates me when people say "Oh I hate Dave Ramsey" Why? is never going into debt again such a bad thing? Because what he says doesn't work for you? His message isn't for you.

 

[makersmark32]

You either love him or hate him, I find him annoying AF

 

[MThuntrrr]

He is anti debt to a fault without regard for opportunity cost. For some, this rigid method is best. For most others, not so much

 

[repins05]

I don't know enough about DR to say he is "good or bad". I have several friends who have successfully overcome debt and two of them now teach his program. He has helped a lot of people. That in it self is a huge positive.

I do know he is filthy rich and his system would be very easy for him to use and still live a lavish lifestyle.

The one thing I see with my friends is the disconnect that they are now fiscally responsible and still don't take advantage of "using credit". It's not like they were addicted to drugs and are going to relapse. They have been using the DR system for 10 years +. With their financial accountability, they both could be making their money work for them and increase their wealth.

Example (at the time of interest rates being low) - I was trying to explain to my friend that he could get a loan for the 30k car he was going to purchase with cash. Loan rate at the time was 1.9 percent. I told him that he could get the loan and leave the money is some sort of low risk investment and make the 30k work for him. If he got into an emergency type of situation he would also have the funds available. On top of it......I know enough about the DR that he would have an emergency fund etc etc. before he would even get to the point of making a large purchase like this. Anyway, just one of many examples I could come up with where DR is restricting his wealth. My friend would never "fall of the wagon" financially at this point in his life. He learned his lesson long ago but is almost falling into a cult like atmosphere of never using credit again. The success of the DR philosophy is probably to keep it black and white or it will not work.