Debt and the Hunter

[ChromeKype]

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about my passion for the outdoors-

Whether it be Fly fishing and the long nights tying flies for a trip out west or an early morning drive through a foggy Ohio river bottom on my way to the public land set I hung the week prior.

I often have other thoughts as well, like about the Sako Bavarian Carbine in .308 with S&B Zenith on top ($5k) that I’ve wanted to purchase for months, or the new Carbon fiber Tree steps ($300) or the Sitka outfit ($1k) or the new fly rod set-up ($1k) or the new Meateater knife($300), or Tying vice ($300), or new bow ($1k). Don’t even get me started on the lifted and capped Tundra limited I’ve been eyeing.

The thing is, I can easily “afford” all of these, in fact I could go and buy all of these items and far more by the end of day tomorrow. Now could I pay cash for everything? NO, I could not.

As a new father to a little girl and with twins on the way, I’ve recently been convicted of all the money I spend annually on these things I “need”. I’ve started listening to guys like Dave Ramsey and got intentional about my spending and finances.

This past week my wife and I paid off all of our debt except our Rent (College loans, CCs, Cars =$60,000) and I have never felt better. I don’t drive a lifted tundra anymore, and I feel funny picking up my hunting buddies in my old Honda Odyssey.

But I feel so FREE. There are savings in the bank, and I don’t owe anyone anything, my wife can be a STAHM with our growing family, and we can go anywhere!

If I can do this, as a 31 year old crazy gear guy who spends money like its going out of style, anyone can. In a world where you can finance your first lite underwear, it feels good to be different. I’m not judging anyone who buys stuff on credit, its not wrong. I personally needed to get to this place.



What are your thoughts on Debt? I often wonder if our specific demographic (avid hunters)carries more debt than the average person in our age group due to our insatiable hunger to be out there, getting it done and being successful. I also know some hunters who are the most frugal guys out there.


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[*zap*]

 

[Bubblehide]

Debt, especially credit card debt is modern day slavery. Last year I bought a new car, it's my only debt. But at 1.9% interest I will continue to make payments, paying it off early.

 

[coloyooper]

CC payment? Not great. Mortgage payment? Can be a wonderful thing. good on you guys for paying off the debt you had. It’s definitely easier said than done. Especially with little ones at home - I’m very familiar with that. Hunting doesn’t have to be about the latest and greatest. To a degree, it’s really only as expensive as you make it.

 

[GunsAreFun]

30 here. I was raised by frugal parents and live that way still. We probably live 20-30% below our means. Except for food (we shop at Aldi), I buy almost nothing that isn’t used or significantly on sale. We drive 8-10 year old cars that are paid for and we shopped long and hard to find great deals on those. We shopped long and hard to buy both the houses we’ve had under market. I made 20% profit on our first house when relocated with about $4k in DIY improvements. I fix anything I can and only use pros when absolutely necessary, and even then, I find certified guys doing side jobs. We almost never eat out except for birthdays and anniversaries or when the parents are buying lol. Don’t have cable. My wife doesn’t get her hair or nails done. Neither of us spend much on clothes. When we travel, we like places away from people in nature so it’s usually pretty cheap.

I’m lucky enough that my biggest financial worry is walking the line between saving enough to retire ABSOLUTELY no later than 60 while also not missing out on experiences now because there are no guarantees I’ll make it to 60 or be in good health then.

 

[100percent]

A wise man once told me ”son, you can hunt or be rich but, you absolutely cannot do both”.

I believe he was mostly right!

My version is that it can be your passion but, it can’t be your obsession! You have to prioritize and make good “life” decisions first!

Now did someone say Swarovski was coming out with pure RF binos soon????

 

[Corey Paulsen (teamkabob)]

Top job man! I’m not much older than you and as I get later into my 30’s I hate debt. My truck is paid off next fall and only 10more years in the current home. Added land this spring to put a shop home on at the lake. A big dream of mine but not cheap. It’s a great investment as it will only gain value like my current home.

Congrats again. I look for sales or discount. Also looks for gear that works here in Kansas or MO but I can use out west

 

[MattB]

Debt is great for buying earning assets which you are going to pay for over time like an income producing rental properties.

For what you are talking about - buying toys - it's is financial crack cocaine. I spend a lot on credit cards, but I haven't paid a cent in interest on any of them in a decade or more. If you can't pay it off the next month, you can't afford it. Don't let the (likely many) people you know who conduct their life differently convince you otherwise.

 

[Salmon River Solutions]

I'm 29 and my debt just went up quite a bit when we refinanced the house and I took out as much money on the house as I could to start my business. Its going to be hard to look at personal debt vs business debt but heres to hoping it works out! At least I didn't pull cash out on my house and buy a truck and a boat!

 

[P Carter]

My two cents: a little bit of smart debt is ok, but no dumb debt. Smart debt is cheap money that provides a tax benefit and allows you to build up equity in a house, business,
or other asset, preferably an income generating asset. Dumb debt is paying more for something that you can’t afford. Build up your character instead of consumer debt by foregoing things you cannot afford. Good for you, good for your family, good for everyone.

 

[AKBorn]

Good on you for paying down your debt! Financial freedom is a wonderful thing...

Like Coloyooper said, hunting doesn't HAVE to be excessively expensive. I am 59, and retired in January with (fingers crossed) enough money saved to last me into my 90s.

I have hunted since I was a kid, and have only owned 3 big game rifles in my life - a .30-30, a .30-06, and a .338 Winchester Magnum. The compound bow that I use is 20 years old. No piece of my hunting clothing cost me more than $50.

Long ago, I learned that I am far more interested in the experiences I get while hunting, than the newest gadgets, guns, or bows. I never buy anything the first time I think about buying it - I wait until I have thought about the item 3 or 4 times, to be sure that I REALLY want it.

As a result, I have been able to do 12-15 remote Alaska flyout hunts over the past 2 decades, without having a negative impact on my saving for retirement. Did it by starting to max out on my 401k when I was in my early 40s, and by tucking any financial windfalls into savings rather than spending them on something I thought I wanted.

The biggest step to starting in this direction is taming the urge to spend all the money that you have. Once you cross that hurdle, anyone can put themselves on a good road to financial independence, hoping that no financial or health issues arise that cause a marked change in your path.

I hope that many others read your post and are motivated to tame the spending beast, and I also hope that their lives are all enriched as a result.

 

[Pro953]

I was so sad when I saw the first light email offering financing. I have and enjoy some FL gear, but encouraging folks to go into debt for merino wool clothing. That has no positive end.


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[Scottyboy]

I’m booking a guided Alaska moose (and whatever other legal animal presents itself) hunt for 2022, will be taking out a 401k loan to pay for it. Some call it debt, some call it making it happen: I’ll gladly pay the fees to afford a hunt I otherwise wouldn’t be able to out of savings; With twins at home myself.

 

[Ross]

Great gear is not a necessary item to be successful, yes certain items go a long ways to assisting on success other items are simply wants to try and justify the opportunity for success...prioritize what is important in life create a long term budget and great things can happen I hunted for decades in crappy gear and a gun bought at a pawn shop in Missoula in the 80s we did ok with crappy gear and desire...good luck this fall

 

[Sportsman]

Seems like a fair number of young guys here. First, great on you. We were debt free except for mortgage at one point. Always have and always have lived well below our means.

Here's the one to think about - if you have kids, college is coming and it ain't cheap. State U on a full tuition scholarship will still leave you paying $15-20,000 per year on room, board, and fees. That's if your kid gets a scholarship.

Talk to a financial advisor and plan accordingly. My cash flow for hunting will go up astronomically in a few more years when we get the youngest through college.

 

[ffparamedic]

Congratulations to you! I am also very debt averse. Other than a mortgage I do not have debt and never intend to have any again. I have been frugal and made choices that were against the grain to get where I am now and it feels really great. I am 34 and will reach my retirement $$ number within 10 years. Although I will not retire then it certainly will feel great to have the option.

Most of my hunting gear is bought second hand, my wife's SUV is 10 years old and my truck is 14. I often get the itch for new gear/rifles and then I decide that I don't use what I have enough to go spend any more money.

 

[ODB]

I was so sad when I saw the first light email offering financing. I have and enjoy some FL gear, but encouraging folks to go into debt for merino wool clothing. That has no positive end.


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Correct. It’s essentially predatory because at that price range, FL knows a person can’t really afford a 50$ if they have to finance it. Enticing them to do so is...predatory. I get the “everyone makes their own choices,”. But again, FL is initiating the offer. Like a damn payday loan.

 

[hodgeman]

Good on you. Life is good as a financial mutant in today's world. The credit card is the new smoking, it's normal right now...but in 30 years people will wish they hadn't.

I'm good with a reasonable mortgage on a primary residence as a last resort, but borrowing is largely a losing proposition.

 

[WCB]

My wife has some student loans since just got her masters and is continuing her education for one more year then she is topped out for her profession. However, it will all be paid for 1 year after she is done just from the raise she is getting. So we basically have our vehicles and house to pay for. We both max out our contributions and could pay off our vehicles tomorrow but with a 1 year old and her wanting another now is not the time IMO to drop our saving to bare bones. We have started a college fund and our 1 year old has $5K in it already.

I agree with most. I can't imagine dropping the money on some of the stuff people do. I'm not saying we won't finance anything cause we do with vehicles (we also don't finance our vehicles for more than 36-48 months) and our house but other than that we pay straight cash. Credit Cards are not bad they can just be used in bad ways. We use it to buy our hunting licenses and we use it while traveling and it gets paid off basically instantly.

 

[vermeire]

Follow those baby steps! Be weird!! Dave Ramsey and his team have helped a lot of people get a handle on their finances. I'm a little older than you with older "Irish" twins @ 12 & 13. I'm a little ahead of you on the financial journey it sounds like. My biggest financial issue is not really about money. What I've found over the last year or so is when I'm considering a purchase whether it is a $50 hammock or a $1000 pair of pistols is a large portion of my decision is influence by the experience I envision. I've got a lot of stuff that has only been used a few times or stuff that is an upgrade from what I had been using that doesn't do the job any better than what it replaced. It's ok to purchase things we want but don't need but I think you're realizing that taking on debt for those kinds of purchases can be a poor decision. Set up a budget and stick to it!