What are you paying for when you buy a $ 4K rifle?

[prm]

What am I paying for? Well, to get something unique that I want. I like lightweight rifles for hunting. I’ve told the story here before, but I had a big piece of walnut my grandfather had cut some 50+ years. I wanted to put those two together. I quickly realized my carving skills, and lack of patience, weren’t going to cut it, so I had real craftsmen build me a custom fit stock to go on a Barrett Fieldcraft. That adds up pretty quickly. It’s not a $4k rifle, but it’s up there. It is also invaluable. If I ever trim the collection to one, this will be the one I keep.

 

[V35B]

Customs are just that, custom, your rifle your way. The flexibility to have your rifle exactly like you want with no compromise is where the dollars are, especially with premium components. Above average craftmanship is another area the money goes. The ability for you to have your smith show you the nicely cut concentric chamber in the barrel he slugged and deemed good, the action measured and found to be square and true, the no stress bedding job, a properly mounted set of bases, rings and scope, all before you make the final payment. If you are not satisfied, you don't pay until you are. Customs are not for everyone; we have the freedom to choose what we want. I have been in a group of hunters several times and someone asks about my rifle. After they shoot them or handle them, two questions usually are asked. 1) where did you get it? and 2) How Much? At that point they are either in or out on their decision to go down the custom road.

 

[Grousehntr]

back in the day (think pre 64 Winchester model 70) you were paying highly skilled machinists to hold very tight tolerances. That‘s what drove the price. But with today’s CNC/software controlled systems, all rifles are almost certainly build to the same very close tolerances…..cheap rifle or expensive rifl

Not here to invalidate anyone's opinion.
I'm the guy who would take a rifle like that pre 64 (ooh sweet with a nice original stock, bluing etc) over anything built today. So if a really sweet piece was 4k, I could justify that cost

 

[Gargoyle]

I imagine what one gets for paying for a project is the lesson, "When one doesn't know how to do, others who do will charge a sum in the exploitation of that person's ignorance on the matter."

Happens all the time to millions everyday.

Don't know how to fix your car or install something?
Don't know how to fix or install your HVAC?
Don't know how to build a precision rig that shoots amazing?

YUP.

Edited to support the general statement with lack of the tools of the trade. Before the intent of this post goes over any more heads.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I imagine what one gets for paying for a project is the lesson, "When one doesn't know how to do, others who do will charge a sum in the exploitation of that person's ignorance on the matter."

Happens all the time to millions everyday.

Don't know how to fix your car or install something?
Don't know how to fix or install your HVAC?
Don't know how to build a precision rig that shoots amazing?

YUP.

I don't have a CNC machine or a lathe in my garage.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I imagine what one gets for paying for a project is the lesson, "When one doesn't know how to do, others who do will charge a sum in the exploitation of that person's ignorance on the matter."

Happens all the time to millions everyday.

Don't know how to fix your car or install something?
Don't know how to fix or install your HVAC?
Don't know how to build a precision rig that shoots amazing?

YUP.

I know exactly how to do all of those things, however, I don’t always have the right tools to do them and I certainly don’t have the time to do them as my time is spent doing things that add more overall value to the people that pay me and to society as a whole.

Therefore, I pay people who also know how to do those things as that is their current profession.

Just because someone doesn’t do something, don’t assume that they can’t do it.

And if any of those people try to “charge a sum in the exploitation“ of my ignorance of the matter, it will go very badly for them.

 

[Gargoyle]

I don't have a CNC machine or a lathe in my garage.

I don’t either. So I send that part, the barrel, to those who do.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I don’t either. So I send that part, the barrel, to those who do.

So neither of us knows how to build a precision rifle. We only differ on who assembles the parts made by the people who do. I use a chassis so the only work I paid for was the barrel work and putting the barrel on the action. The rest of it just bolted together.

 

[Gargoyle]

So neither of us knows how to build a precision rifle. We only differ on who assembles the parts made by the people who do. I use a chassis so the only work I paid for was the barrel work and putting the barrel on the action. The rest of it just bolted together.

I’ll disagree with that. Would I have to personally manufacture the chassis, the bipod, the reamer, the muzzle device, the barrel blank, trigger pack before I’m considered knowing how to build a precision rig? Weird, because the “smiths” who build precision rigs do none of that either. Some can chamber the barrel, then “bolt on parts” to complete the rig.

There’s also the thought that precedes production on the chambering…I establish the dimensions for the reamer for the machinist to make the chamber as I designed it. He just does the labor.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I’ll disagree with that. Would I have to personally manufacture the chassis, the bipod, the reamer, the muzzle device, the barrel blank, trigger pack before I’m considered knowing how to build a precision rig? Weird, because the “smiths” who build precision rigs do none of that either. Some can chamber the barrel, then “bolt on parts” to complete the rig.

There’s also the thought that precedes production on the chambering…I establish the dimensions for the reamer for the machinist to make the chamber as I designed it. He just does the labor.

I'd say the minimum required to be considered "building" would be to do the barrel work. Plus you only need to establish dimensions on the reamer if they don't already have one that meets your needs. Otherwise you'd be considering using a barrel vice/action wrench (if applicable) to screw the barrel on and then checking with a go/no-go gauge to be "building" the rifle. It's not that complex and is not some little-known art form.

If I told a carpenter to make me a chair I could assemble, and specified the dimensions, no one would say that I "built" it because I assembled the end product he created.

 

[peppy870]

I have a Ruger American 6.5CM that I have used to take several whitetail, and have shot it multiple times at 1005 yards. Love it. Works great. Don’t plan to part with it.
My custom 300prc is almost done. AG composite stock, BAT machine action, Bix’n Andy trigger, Bartlein Barrel, Hawkins BDL bottom metal, WarnecMountain tech rings, and a Leupold Mark 5 scope. It is exactly what I wanted. I don’t have it, but already love it.
Both fit my needs. To each their own. Enjoy what you have!

 

[Gargoyle]

I'd say the minimum required to be considered "building" would be to do the barrel work. Plus you only need to establish dimensions on the reamer if they don't already have one that meets your needs. Otherwise you'd be considering using a barrel vice/action wrench (if applicable) to screw the barrel on and then checking with a go/no-go gauge to be "building" the rifle. It's not that complex and is not some little-known art form.

If I told a carpenter to make me a chair I could assemble, and specified the dimensions, no one would say that I "built" it because I assembled the end product he created.

What happens when the guy chambering does just that job really good and doesn’t know how to build the rest of the gun. But the work is done expertly?

What if my builds are better because I know changes to the reamer I make are better than SAAMI spec, or more importantly learned by experience what would make that reamer better to gain an accuracy edge. (precision)

Your opinion is based upon identifying a very singular process in the totality of all it takes to build a precision rig and excluding all others. Ok, I respectfully disagree.

 

[JohnJohnson]

What happens when the guy chambering does just that job really good and doesn’t know how to build the rest of the gun. But the work is done expertly?

What if my builds are better because I know changes to the reamer I make are better than SAAMI spec, or more importantly learned by experience what would make that reamer better to gain an accuracy edge. (precision)

Your opinion is based upon identifying a very singular process in the totality of all it takes to build a precision rig and excluding all others. Ok, I respectfully disagree.

Build what rest of the rifle? Screwing the barrel onto the action and checking with a go/no-go gauge? Putting the barreled action into a chassis and sending it off? The barrel is kind of what makes or breaks the whole thing unless the gunsmith is doing bedding on a more traditional stock.

Your original comment I replied to was basically implying people who have their rifles built by others are ignorant rubes paying for something they should be doing themselves. Then through me asking questions it turns out you're doing literally one extra step than we are (screwing the barrel onto the action). Unless I get docked points because I picked out a reamer the builder already had. I just don't think the gap between you and us is as big as you think it is and the tone of your original comment led me to believe you were doing more than you actually are. Unless you're using factory actions and doing the work to true them yourself. Though if you're not doing the barrel part I doubt you're doing that either.

 

[FairWeatherFisher]

Idk. I recently won a Howa Superlite 6.5CM. A 1000-1300 rifle retail. My other rifle is a savage 11 “trophy hunter”, these used to sell for under $500 I think.
I like the savage better, and I shoot better groups with it. I’m looking at selling the Howa to get some upgrades for the savage.

All that to say, I don’t necessarily think a more expensive rifle a better one.

 

[Gargoyle]

Build what rest of the rifle? Screwing the barrel onto the action and checking with a go/no-go gauge? Putting the barreled action into a chassis and sending it off? The barrel is kind of what makes or breaks the whole thing unless the gunsmith is doing bedding on a more traditional stock.

Your original comment I replied to was basically implying people who have their rifles built by others are ignorant rubes paying for something they should be doing themselves. Then through me asking questions it turns out you're doing literally one extra step than we are (screwing the barrel onto the action). Unless I get docked points because I picked out a reamer the builder already had. I just don't think the gap between you and us is as big as you think it is and the tone of your original comment led me to believe you were doing more than you actually are. Unless you're using factory actions and doing the work to true them yourself. Though if you're not doing the barrel part I doubt you're doing that either.

That was your first flaw. Adding assumptions, then building upon that faulty foundation. You go build, buy, whatever you want how you like it and I’ll keep doing the same. I don’t care if somebody on the internet says I’m not meeting their opinion of building Precision rigs when I know I am.

I liken this attitude of yours to the deer in the freezer scenario:

Purist: “Freezer full of deer, huh
Me: “Yup”
Purist: “what bow you use?”
Me: “I shot it with a gun”
Purist: “Oh that’s not hunting. Anybody can shoot a deer with a gun.”
Me: Tastes the same out of the freezer!”

Godspeed man!

 

[JohnJohnson]

That was your first flaw. Adding assumptions, then building upon that faulty foundation. You go build, buy, whatever you want how you like it and I’ll keep doing the same. I don’t care if somebody on the internet says I’m not meeting their opinion of building Precision rigs when I know I am. Godspeed man!

I don't have to assume anything, I'll just link your post below and highlight the word ignorance and the part about building a precision rig that shoots amazing. To your credit, you were very clear about what you meant. What sets you apart from the ignorant masses who don't know how to build a precision rifle is barrel fitting, which would be somewhere around a $100-200 service on that proposed $4,000 bill the original post was asking about. Since I'm quite sure there are people who have builders make full rifles with their chosen reamer.

Edit: It's actually not really barrel fitting, since that implies you're cutting the barrel tenon threads yourself. I guess it's just barrel installation.

I imagine what one gets for paying for a project is the lesson, "When one doesn't know how to do, others who do will charge a sum in the exploitation of that person's ignorance on the matter."

Happens all the time to millions everyday.

Don't know how to fix your car or install something?
Don't know how to fix or install your HVAC?
Don't know how to build a precision rig that shoots amazing?

YUP.

Edited to support the general statement with lack of the tools of the trade. Before the intent of this post goes over any more heads.

 

[Gargoyle]

I don't have to assume anything, I'll just link your post below and highlight the word ignorance and the part about building a precision rig that shoots amazing. To your credit, you were very clear about what you meant. What sets you apart from the ignorant masses who don't know how to build a precision rifle is barrel fitting, which would be somewhere around a $100-200 service on that proposed $4,000 bill the original post was asking about. Since I'm quite sure there are people who have builders make full rifles with their chosen reamer.

Ignorance isn’t automatically a negative connotation word. It just means without knowledge. Considering we’re at this juncture of misunderstanding of my intent of the post. Just let it go, like the Disney movie, Frozen.