Vaccine?

[Troutnut]

Did you really say MURDERED!! People like YOU really need to get a grip man.

Yes, murdered. Specifically, it's depraved indifference murder, although it's happening too often for anyone to get around to prosecuting all the offenders, and it's too hard to prove individual cases. The specific definition varies by state, but in general it's that "defendants commit an act even though they know their act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to a person. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life."

Hundreds of thousands of Americans who are now dead would still be alive if everyone had followed what the science says we should be doing: minimize public interactions in enclosed spaces, keep your distance from other people in public as much as you can, and wear high-quality masks correctly for any closeup social interactions with people outside your immediate household. Soon, getting vaccinated will be at the top of the list of common-sense obligations for everyone who cares about their country or the people in it. Reckless people who flaunt all these precautions and end up spreading the virus to somebody who dies are personally responsible for those deaths. They're every bit as responsible, and almost as stupid, as hunters who shoot at anything that moves and end up killing a person.

As for "getting a grip," I had a very close relative who could barely walk and barely breathe for two weeks, after being incredibly careful and catching the virus anyway due to somebody else's recklessness. I take this personally. It was awful for me worrying about them, way more awful for them to go through, and still we were the lucky ones. Millions of other Americans have similar stories that ended in a lonely death and a funeral nobody could safely attend. And this is all so completely preventable. Again, we're looking at deaths approaching a hundred 9/11s, and we still have some people who claim to be patriots doing the equivalent of standing on the towers with glowing orange batons waving the jets in to their target.

Also, as a Ph.D. biologist, I look at the arguments people make for ignoring Covid precautions and want to throw up. The dumbest people in our society are all suddenly armchair epidemiologists who know more than all the experts in the field because they saw a video on Facebook with spooky music.

 

[txhunter581]

Because far more deadly viruses have been in the wild in previous years, except for this is the first time we’ve acted like this as a reaction.

We are now preconditioned as a society and a global society to react to every little virus this way. Do you actually think we’re going to go backwards from where were at now? Wearing masks will become a nearly ubiquitous thing not just an Asian countries but across the world. Shut downs and lockdowns will become the new normal whenever there’s a virus that could even potentially look like Covid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am 62 and there has never been one like this in my lifetime. Please tell me an example of anything close to similar. You can’t. This is not different because of our reaction. This is DIFFERENT.

Yes there have been viruses that are this bad and worse in this world, but none that “got loose” and caused a pandemic.

 

[7Bartman]

Here is the backgrounder for the FDA advisory committee meeting for the Pfizer drug. Read for yourself. The side effects on page 6 are what you're probably interested in.

https://t.co/SMGD6rQ74v

 

[FLAK]

Did you really say MURDERED!! People like YOU really need to get a grip man.

No lie huh? I'm more concerned about people like this walking around trying to dictate every minutia of my life than I am of the Corona.
And Mr. Trout NUT might need to get some additional meds when he gets the vaccine. If anyone is so terrified of catching something they might need to just stay home. Dont expect me to accommodate your fears by giving up my rights. Just aint gonna happen.

 

[Dos Perros]

Yes, murdered. Specifically, it's depraved indifference murder, although it's happening too often for anyone to get around to prosecuting all the offenders, and it's too hard to prove individual cases. The specific definition varies by state, but in general it's that "defendants commit an act even though they know their act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to a person. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life."

Hundreds of thousands of Americans who are now dead would still be alive if everyone had followed what the science says we should be doing: minimize public interactions in enclosed spaces, keep your distance from other people in public as much as you can, and wear high-quality masks correctly for any closeup social interactions with people outside your immediate household. Soon, getting vaccinated will be at the top of the list of common-sense obligations for everyone who cares about their country or the people in it. Reckless people who flaunt all these precautions and end up spreading the virus to somebody who dies are personally responsible for those deaths. They're every bit as responsible, and almost as stupid, as hunters who shoot at anything that moves and end up killing a person.

As for "getting a grip," I had a very close relative who could barely walk and barely breathe for two weeks, after being incredibly careful and catching the virus anyway due to somebody else's recklessness. I take this personally. It was awful for me worrying about them, way more awful for them to go through, and still we were the lucky ones. Millions of other Americans have similar stories that ended in a lonely death and a funeral nobody could safely attend. And this is all so completely preventable. Again, we're looking at deaths approaching a hundred 9/11s, and we still have some people who claim to be patriots doing the equivalent of standing on the towers with glowing orange batons waving the jets in to their target.

Also, as a Ph.D. biologist, I look at the arguments people make for ignoring Covid precautions and want to throw up. The dumbest people in our society are all suddenly armchair epidemiologists who know more than all the experts in the field because they saw a video on Facebook with spooky music.

"Hundreds of thousands of Americans" is certainly generous. Many of those folks included in your count had comorbidities that would have led to their death this year anyway. Up to 60% if you believe the Italian study.

Also you have left out, that the people that are dead are clearly the people that didn't follow the guidance. It isn't so much murder as it is suicide.

 

[NDGuy]

Here is the backgrounder for the FDA advisory committee meeting for the Pfizer drug. Read for yourself. The side effects on page 6 are what you're probably interested in.

https://t.co/SMGD6rQ74v

Side effects seem pretty normal...

And like previously stated all of those people will have had the shot for 6+months when normal
folk get it.

 

[Rob5589]

Looks like we (EMS) are about 30 days out from the vaccine being available. The company is asking if you're interested or not. ATM, it isn't going to be mandatory. Of course that is subject to change in the future.
I opted in. Whether C19 causes long term health issues or not, I simply don't want it, or to find out. Same as every other illness out there.

 

[MattB]

Because far more deadly viruses have been in the wild in previous years, except for this is the first time we’ve acted like this as a reaction.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which were these exactly?

Edit: to add some context to my question, there was the H1N1 outbreak in 2009 with approximately 14,700 dead in the US. Prior to that you need to look back to 1957 - prior to the period I am referencing -
for an H2N2 outbreak with 116,000 estimated deaths in the U.S.

We are at 293,000 dead in the US at present from COVID with estimates that we may top out near 450,000.

 

[Carpenterant]

Yes, murdered. Specifically, it's depraved indifference murder, although it's happening too often for anyone to get around to prosecuting all the offenders, and it's too hard to prove individual cases. The specific definition varies by state, but in general it's that "defendants commit an act even though they know their act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to a person. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life."

Hundreds of thousands of Americans who are now dead would still be alive if everyone had followed what the science says we should be doing: minimize public interactions in enclosed spaces, keep your distance from other people in public as much as you can, and wear high-quality masks correctly for any closeup social interactions with people outside your immediate household. Soon, getting vaccinated will be at the top of the list of common-sense obligations for everyone who cares about their country or the people in it. Reckless people who flaunt all these precautions and end up spreading the virus to somebody who dies are personally responsible for those deaths. They're every bit as responsible, and almost as stupid, as hunters who shoot at anything that moves and end up killing a person.

As for "getting a grip," I had a very close relative who could barely walk and barely breathe for two weeks, after being incredibly careful and catching the virus anyway due to somebody else's recklessness. I take this personally. It was awful for me worrying about them, way more awful for them to go through, and still we were the lucky ones. Millions of other Americans have similar stories that ended in a lonely death and a funeral nobody could safely attend. And this is all so completely preventable. Again, we're looking at deaths approaching a hundred 9/11s, and we still have some people who claim to be patriots doing the equivalent of standing on the towers with glowing orange batons waving the jets in to their target.

Also, as a Ph.D. biologist, I look at the arguments people make for ignoring Covid precautions and want to throw up. The dumbest people in our society are all suddenly armchair epidemiologists who know more than all the experts in the field because they saw a video on Facebook with spooky music.

This is ridiculous.

 

[MattB]

We are now preconditioned as a society and a global society to react to every little virus this way. Do you actually think we’re going to go backwards from where were at now? Wearing masks will become a nearly ubiquitous thing not just an Asian countries but across the world. Shut downs and lockdowns will become the new normal whenever there’s a virus that could even potentially look like Covid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Missed your other question. We will undoubtedly go back toward if not to where we were before all this started once COVID is under control in the US. Herd immunity will be the condition that will permit that, which will be achieved by a combination of people who have had the disease and have some resistance and those take a vaccine.

As stated, there hasn't been a virus that looked like COVID in the preceding 100 years, so the intimation that this will become a frequent thing is baseless.

 

[Ozarkansas]

Because I can see this thread devolving into bickering about the lethality of the disease, here is a link that shows deaths this year compared to years past and the long-term average, broken down by week.
CDC Excess Deaths
That’s not something something you can argue about, that’s just raw data showing that way more Americans are dying this year, precisely in line with COVID case spikes.

it’s also worth pointing out that just being a deadly disease doesn’t make a pandemic. Ebola is super deadly, so was SARS. Rabies is 100% fatal too. All of these are orders of magnitude deadlier than Covid, but none of these have killed as many people in the same amount of time because they’re not nearly as infectious.

 

[echampion8]

They’re doin a voluntary study and paying people $550. American!!! Not enough for me. I’ve had so many things injected in me for the military, I’ll pass on everything else.

If Vaccines work, why would those who are vaccinated be afraid of those who aren’t? If the vaccine doesn’t work, why get it?

 

[Troutnut]

If Vaccines work, why would those who are vaccinated be afraid of those who aren’t? If the vaccine doesn’t work, why get it?

They don't work perfectly. They just work well enough to stop the spread of the disease when enough people get them. With the best vaccines reported so far, a vaccinated person is about 20 times less likely to catch Covid than an unvaccinated person, but at least some of them can still catch it. If Covid is still raging through the population because too few people are being vaccinated and/or we go back to normal (maskless concerts, football games, etc) too early, then lots of vaccinated people will end up getting sick anyway. If almost everyone gets the vaccine, so these vaccinated people are running around in public bumping into other vaccinated people, then the odds of Covid spreading become extremely low, and we can pretty much wipe the damn thing out and get back to normal.

There are also people who can't safely be vaccinated because of specific medical complications. That's true of every vaccine. Their safety depends on the herd immunity we create by vaccinating all the people whose systems can handle the vaccine. That way they never get exposed to the disease in the first place. This safety breaks down if a bunch of people choose to skip the vaccine for no good reason.

 

[MattB]

Also you have left out, that the people that are dead are clearly the people that didn't follow the guidance. It isn't so much murder as it is suicide.

So, the ~1/3 of Americans who died after contracting the disease in nursing homes actually got it while........dancing maskless at all night raves?

 

[echampion8]

They don't work perfectly. They just work well enough to stop the spread of the disease when enough people get them. With the best vaccines reported so far, a vaccinated person is about 20 times less likely to catch Covid than an unvaccinated person, but at least some of them can still catch it. If Covid is still raging through the population because too few people are being vaccinated and/or we go back to normal (maskless concerts, football games, etc) too early, then lots of vaccinated people will end up getting sick anyway. If almost everyone gets the vaccine, so these vaccinated people are running around in public bumping into other vaccinated people, then the odds of Covid spreading become extremely low, and we can pretty much wipe the damn thing out and get back to normal.

There are also people who can't safely be vaccinated because of specific medical complications. That's true of every vaccine. Their safety depends on the herd immunity we create by vaccinating all the people whose systems can handle the vaccine. That way they never get exposed to the disease in the first place. This safety breaks down if a bunch of people choose to skip the vaccine for no good reason.

I’ll take the 99%+ mortality rate over a vaccine. If people want to take a vaccine, who am I to tell them no? I live in the land of the free and I will choose to not take one. After all, if it does work, those that are scared of the virus will be protected. If it doesn’t, then they’ll just have to deal with the effects of the vaccine on their body.

 

[Ozarkansas]

If people want to take a vaccine, who am I to tell them no? I live in the land of the free and I will choose to not take one. After all, if it does work, those that are scared of the virus will be protected. If it doesn’t, then they’ll just have to deal with the effects of the vaccine on their body.

I would argue that If we’re taking a full-blown “Individual Rights” view, people and businesses would be able to refuse you service for not being vaccinated. Or jobs would even be able to dictate that you must receive it.

That being said I’m okay with you not wanting to get vaccinated, I think enough people will voluntarily take the vaccine or be pressured to do so through their jobs that we will curb the pandemic without govt. mandated vaccines. And I think a lot of the people who voted “No” here will change their mind if the vaccination efforts in Europe go smoothly and effectively.

 

[echampion8]

I would argue that If we’re taking a full-blown “Individual Rights” view, people and businesses would be able to refuse you service for not being vaccinated. Or jobs would even be able to dictate that you must receive it.

That being said I’m okay with you not wanting to get vaccinated, I think enough people will voluntarily take the vaccine or be pressured to do so through their jobs that we will curb the pandemic without govt. mandated vaccines. And I think a lot of the people who voted “No” here will change their mind if the vaccination efforts in Europe go smoothly and effectively.

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Billinsd]

re: herd immunity. no virus has ever been eliminated through herd immunity. vaccines have eliminated or effectively eliminated (i.e. extremely isolated cases) a number of viruses.

What about the Spanish flu, 100 years ago?

 

[fwafwow]

It took me some time to find this, so it isn’t in reply to @Billinsd:

 

[GHOSTofWENDELL]

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What liberty are you given up by getting a vaccine? Lmao a little dramatic