Utah senator Mike Lee - attacking Public Lands

[Btaylor]

I have never been to Utah, but I can't think of a state or moderately sized city I have been to, that did not have areas needing revitalization. Maybe we should start with these before annexing forest for the concrete jungle.

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Nail meet hammer. Just need a viable model to orchestrate state and local govt with property owners paired with a functional urban development model.

 

[CorbLand]

Nail meet hammer. Just need a viable model to orchestrate state and local govt with property owners paired with a functional urban development model.

But that would require that states have to actually do something and probably raise taxes and its only that bloody federal government that taxes you and is terrible with your tax money...

 

[wind gypsy]

It's painfully obvious how much identity politics plays into this. People are so concerned with hating the feds so they can identify as a real conservative that they are willing to piss away one of the greatest gifts we have for future generations. Boggles my mind that people on a backcountry hunting website fall for this crap.

 

[3forks]

If you don't live in Utah then it's none of your business, I'm sick of you people that think that you have a right to force your preferences on everybody else, if Utah wants to turn their entire state in to a parking lot then that's their business, they live there you don't.

I live in Montana and I get sick and tired of people from out of state that think they have a right to influence our elections and decisions on land use. Keep you noses out of other people's business unless it effects your personal property or person.

Does this site have an ignore feature?

I honestly don't know why this guy participates on this board...

 

[CorbLand]

If you don't live in Utah then it's none of your business, I'm sick of you people that think that you have a right to force your preferences on everybody else, if Utah wants to turn their entire state in to a parking lot then that's their business, they live there you don't.

I live in Montana and I get sick and tired of people from out of state that think they have a right to influence our elections and decisions on land use. Keep you noses out of other people's business unless it effects your personal property or person.

Good thing that Federal Land is MY property, therefore I will keep my nose in this business.

 

[Billinsd]

Does this site have an ignore feature?

I honestly don't know why this guy participates on this board...

I have a lot of empathy for the guy myself. I can understand both sides of the issue. I'm more on ramont's side, but more in the middle. Ramont participates on this board the same reason I do, probably. Because he loves big game hunting and this site is the best for DIY Western big game hunting. There is nothing wrong with the way you feel about the issue either. I don't really believe or think it has to be all one way or another. However, I don't live in Idaho and Utah. People have explained things to me and I witnessed the felony trespassing for a 3rd offense debate in Idaho and believe it is powerful landowners controlling politicians (probably conservative ones), which I was totally against as an observer.

 

[mtwarden]

curious where ramont does his hunting? probably never hunts federal lands I’m guessing, why would you when there are so many other opportunities for a quality backcountry hunt

 

[Billinsd]

It's painfully obvious how much identity politics plays into this. People are so concerned with hating the feds so they can identify as a real conservative that they are willing to piss away one of the greatest gifts we have for future generations. Boggles my mind that people on a backcountry hunting website fall for this crap.

I kinda fall into that category, however some here on this site have really opened my eyes to access restriction issues with public land transfers. I've come more to the middle on this issue from reading and participating in these discussions. I've said before it's a conundrum for me. I'm torn both ways. The only thing I believe the federal government does right is the military. However, the military is very burocratic and extremely wasteful. My dad lamented about dumping fuel out of his air force plane in the desert in the 50's so they could justify getting more next year. I'm certainly not conservative on all issues. I'm leaning more and more libertarian, but that's real similar. I'm liberal or moderate on a few issues. I was pretty conservative on this issue, however I am bending more left or moderate.

Freedom and Liberty is what drives me..........If I don't got that, I don't got nuthin.... Hunting, public land, etc. although huge, and are my PASSION, pale compared to Freedom and Liberty. Some of you are one issue guys and would vote for anyone that promises protecting federal public land, even if everything else you opposed them on. Hunting and public land access are not in the Constitution. They are not rights. Hell yes, they are important and yes they are a freedom we have.

It's fine with me if some of you value hunting and access above all else, or somewhere in between like me. We all come from different places, have different experiences, education etc. If I'd grown up in Idaho, Montana, or Utah I would have a different opinion.

I roll they way I roll, just like all of you. I can and do change my mind if and when information becomes available. At least I like to think that way...... Cheers!!!

 

[Crippledsledge64]

I can see where some feel like this is a states issue and I imagine some people get frustrated feeling like their states have all this "unused" land simply because they were brought into the union later and how politics worked out but if we continue to sell off public lands, hunting is going to end up being a sport only for the rich like it is in the UK.

I don't live out West yet so maybe I don't fully understand the issue but i'm tired of these politicians being greedy sobs who only care for short term gain and many of us only following along because they share the name of our political party. Unless we want to live in a nation where only the few have access then keeping public land public needs to be a top priority. Should we fail in that I guess the lottery's my back up plan.

 

[3forks]

"Does this site have an ignore feature? I honestly don't know why this guy participates on this board..."

"I have a lot of empathy for the guy myself. I can understand both sides of the issue. I'm more on ramont's side, but more in the middle. Ramont participates on this board the same reason I do, probably. Because he loves big game hunting and this site is the best for DIY Western big game hunting. There is nothing wrong with the way you feel about the issue either. I don't really believe or think it has to be all one way or another. However, I don't live in Idaho and Utah. People have explained things to me and I witnessed the felony trespassing for a 3rd offense debate in Idaho and believe it is powerful landowners controlling politicians (probably conservative ones), which I was totally against as an observer."


The point is this, this may be the best DIY site for Western hunters, but there are many other sites that seem like they would more cater to Ramont's viewpoints when you consider that most on this site are here because it is comprised of backcountry hunters.

Notice there's no subsection for ATV reviews or discussion.

Anyway, constructive discussions and debate are important, but it seems like Ramont never misses a chance to wade into a discussion on public land access generally uninformed and contentiously.

*See this thread: http://www.rokslide.com/forums/general-discussion-forum/94738-corner-crossing-montana.html

 

[Billinsd]

Yep, I'm mostly a backcountry hunter too. This is not a bubba hunting site. I'm real oportunisic and this site is full of oportunisic hunting. This is an extremely serious site too. Lots and lots of great info. I can see where most don't want to lose public land for hunting. I don't really want to see that happen in a big way like some are predicting. To me, usually real hard core hunting sites are real conservative. This one is too on most issues. The country is really bein pushed hard to the left and it seems like even hunting sites are starting to lean close to center. I don't like it, but I gotta deal with it. It's my issue. I'm also shell shocked against liberalism, living my entire life in California. Lol

 

[Btaylor]

Doing away with either is a violation of my first amendment rights as a Christian.

 

[CrzyTrekker]

If you don't live in Utah then it's none of your business, I'm sick of you people that think that you have a right to force your preferences on everybody else, if Utah wants to turn their entire state in to a parking lot then that's their business, they live there you don't.

I live in Montana and I get sick and tired of people from out of state that think they have a right to influence our elections and decisions on land use. Keep you noses out of other people's business unless it effects your personal property or person.

It's public land and it's definitely our business to comment on this. As a Utah native, I don't like the short-sightedness of Utah politicians. It's all about private money interests. What's humorous is the large number of conservatives (people that would never have the money to go hunting on a large private swathe of land) that will go along with politicians on this issue, because "we're conservatives and we're on the same side." Played like fools.

 

[CorbLand]

What's humorous is the large number of conservatives (people that would never have the money to go hunting on a large private swathe of land) that will go along with politicians on this issue, because "we're conservatives and we're on the same side." Played like fools.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[JBahr]

Does everyone remember when the outdoor retailer trade show moved out... just last year. This show is everything outdoors, not just hunting. Anyone remember the reason why? Sen. Chaffetz's outward hostility toward federally protected lands. He proposed multiple bills to utilize federal land for state purposes in the end benefiting Utah's bottom line financially. I would bet money the same state interest groups are bankrolling Lee to try the same thing.

On top of that outdoor retailers in the state have started to leave citing the same reasons. When will Utah get it. Steven Rinella often talks about the value of this untouched land, for that matter many others long before him, Rosevelt comes to mind... I wish the was a better method to quantify it and help people understand.

And this is most certainly a federal issue, don't tell me to keep my nose out of it.

 

[Schaaf]

we have a similar idiot running for a Senate seat in Montana, a Maryland land developer that has a documented history of supporting the selling off public lands- the scary thing is he beat out a half dozen candidates in the primary

that this Utah guy is a tool shouldn’t make us relax any, that’s what they’re hoping we do

More propagandistic drivel by a leftist.

I’ve known the carpet bagger since 2004 when he started frequenting the area churches trying to get his foot in the door for State politics. MTwarden is spot on.

 

[sneaky]

The job of the Supreme Court is not to legislate but to determine if a law or case is constitutional. Lee is for a limited federal government which I personally find refreshing, but this naturally means that he believes in local and state regulation/control. Giving control of the land back to the states does not automatically mean they will be sold or there will be limited access. The Federal government frankly does not have any business being in control of 640 million acres of land. Granted this is a complicated issue and I certainly dont have the answers but from a principle standpoint, the federal government should be scaled way back. Mike Lee would make a fabulous supreme court judge and is one of the very few decent, intelligent and constitutionally sound people we have in Washington.

Mike, is that you?

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[sneaky]

Impressive. The lower 48 states are comprised of 1.9B acres of land and yet Utah has 37B of public land. What a state.

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Reading comprehension, it's your friend

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[Murdy]

"Lee says Western states would be better off if they were more like Missouri or Illinois, with virtually no public land." ( Senator Mike Lee Pledges Long-Term Attack on Public Lands | Outdoor Life ).

Like Illinois . . . ?

Well, to hunt my home state public land, I have to apply for and be drawn in an individual lottery for specific parcels of public land. The bigger parcels are about 2000 acres, and they let 40 to 50 people out on it. Private land sells for $4,000 to $6,000 an acre (maybe a bit cheaper in the south part of the state). Most decent private land is either outfitted (thousands of $$ to hunt) or leased out. Getting permission to hunt private land is next to impossible. This year, I failed to draw a tag in the first lottery, so I'm scrounging for options, I'll probably get on somewhere, but it'll be third rate land, possibly a long distance away.

This is what Senator Lee is holding up as a model of land use. Frankly, I'm getting out when I can.

 

[CorbLand]

"Lee says Western states would be better off if they were more like Missouri or Illinois, with virtually no public land." ( Senator Mike Lee Pledges Long-Term Attack on Public Lands | Outdoor Life ).

Like Illinois . . . ?

Well, to hunt my home state public land, I have to apply for and be drawn in an individual lottery for specific parcels of public land. The bigger parcels are about 2000 acres, and they let 40 to 50 people out on it. Private land sells for $4,000 to $6,000 an acre (maybe a bit cheaper in the south part of the state). Most decent private land is either outfitted (thousands of $$ to hunt) or leased out. Getting permission to hunt private land is next to impossible. This year, I failed to draw a tag in the first lottery, so I'm scrounging for options, I'll probably get on somewhere, but it'll be third rate land, possibly a long distance away.

This is what Senator Lee is holding up as a model of land use. Frankly, I'm getting out when I can.

Its a lot easier when you are worth a couple million and can purchase a couple thousand acres for yourself.