Utah Price Increase

[BRTreedogs]

A landowner can charger $20k for a voucher but a state try to charge $3700 and we’re up in arms

 

[BuckSmasher]

Maybe I’m not following at what you are getting at. My original statement was a general statement about having people actively participating in hunting. Nothing to do with R vs NR opportunities. It was about anti hunters increasing costs to have more people stop being involved, therefore when ballot initiatives come more people will not care about voting prohunting. I am not opposed to paying more than residents to hunt out west, but these increases would be hard to swallow if I was applying in Utah.

I try to back most prohunting initiatives, even in places I will never hunt. That is to avoid the trickle down affect to places that I do hunt.

I looked back at my reply and it was only obliquely related to your post, sorry for not being more clear. What I mean is this, non-resident opportunity IMO has zero to do with hunter recruitment. Those folks that travel out of state to hunt big game are hunters in their home state, they are traveling for the thrill and adventure of hunting somewhere new. My whole tangent about elk #s vs deer #s was to illustrate that point.

In addition to thinking that non-resident tags don't impact hunter recruitment I also disagree with the notion that anti's are behind non resident price increases. Non-residents don't get a vote. I think in part it is due to to the crazy inflation we have seen the past 5 years, the worst since the 1970s, another part of it is good old human greed, and another part of it may be trying to balance demand.

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

At those prices I'd rather throw away my 20 yrs worth of bonus points for multiple species. Can I afford it, yes.....but I'm not paying $1,600 for a mule deer tag just out of principle. I've wondered how far states will go before they find my pain point on tag pricing and it looks like Utah just answered.

 

[idelkslayer]

When it comes to NR tag allocations and tag costs my opinions currently stand as follows:

1. Tag splits between R/NR should be heavily in favor of R to the point that I have a hard time with any allocation that gives NR tags while R are sitting out the season.

2. Wildlife are not a free market commodity, and tag prices should not be determined using economic principles of supply and demand. Wildlife are a public trust, prices should be determined based on the actual costs of management. Tag fees should go up when wildlife management costs go up. Because of this idea, I have a hard time justifying the disparity between R and NR prices. I am in favor of it but I don't know how to justify it honestly. NR tags should cost more if it costs more for wildlife agencies to oversee their distribution. If there is a disparity then I do think it should be based on a ratio. Maybe NR prices should always be double, triple, or 5X the R prices, something like that. That way any price increase affects R and NR at the same percentage.

Those Utah prices are far more than I am willing or able to pay for a deer or elk tag. I had no plans to apply in Utah anyway so it's no loss for me or Utah.

 

[realunlucky]

I just want to say as a resident this has an impact too. I enjoy hunting with non resident friends and family here in Utah at places I'm super familiar with. If my kids move out of state they'll never pay those prices even to hunt places that have of lot great memories attached to them.

I've voiced my concern

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[Lawnboi]

Kinda ridiculous but we are at the point of pay to apply.

Fixed.

Manage your wildlife into the ground and make up for it by making wildlife a state run casino.

 

[BuckSmasher]

What really chaps me when I think about this what a load of bs we were all sold 16-20 years ago. I started applying out west in 2007 and back then I remember Huntin'Fool and others preaching, "Apply, Apply, Apply!" In my naivete I assumed that 1. Things would stay the same and legislatures and a skyrocketing demand wouldn't change the landscape, 2. I never stopped to calculate that a lot of what I was applying for was mathmatically impossible. Some tags for OIL species like sheep and moose are impossible to draw unless you are either very young or are already way ahead in the points.

Now I am stuck with all these points and a lot of states like Utah is making it extremely expensive to apply, and Colorado is about to start offering half of premium tags available in a random draw watering down the preference points I have spent nearly two decades acquiring.

To be honest, I would GLADLY pay 4k or 5k to Utah to draw one of the premium tags that I currently have spent 16 years applying for and still need at today's point creep 22-25 points. Go on the hunt and be done. Will I be able to draw them in 7-10 years? I don't know. I do know that I want to draw them and then be done. Once I draw my Utah Elk tag I won't be applying for another one, that's for sure. The money is a huge thing but even bigger than that is the time.

 

[WRO]

To be honest, I would GLADLY pay 4k or 5k to Utah to draw one of the premium tags that I currently have spent 16 years applying for and still need at today's point creep 22-25 points. Go on the hunt and be done. Will I be able to draw them in 7-10 years? I don't know. I do know that I want to draw them and then be done. Once I draw my Utah Elk tag I won't be applying for another one, that's for sure. The money is a huge thing but even bigger than that is the time.

The bigger question is will it be, Utah has a program in place to turn most ranches into cwmu s for elk, if this similar to what happened in nm, quality on bulls will go down significantly. Rumor has it deer aren’t far behind, that’ll kill most of the big name units quality.

Once Utah decided to give away 200 nr tags at the expo and changed their system, it basically turned the state into a terrible opportunity.


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[CorbLand]

What really chaps me when I think about this what a load of bs we were all sold 16-20 years ago. I started applying out west in 2007 and back then I remember Huntin'Fool and others preaching, "Apply, Apply, Apply!" In my naivete I assumed that 1. Things would stay the same and legislatures and a skyrocketing demand wouldn't change the landscape, 2. I never stopped to calculate that a lot of what I was applying for was mathmatically impossible. Some tags for OIL species like sheep and moose are impossible to draw unless you are either very young or are already way ahead in the points.

Now I am stuck with all these points and a lot of states like Utah is making it extremely expensive to apply, and Colorado is about to start offering half of premium tags available in a random draw watering down the preference points I have spent nearly two decades acquiring.

And a lot of people doped up good and proper.

 

[MallardSX2]

A landowner can charger $20k for a voucher but a state try to charge $3700 and we’re up in arms

If it was up to most of us on here landowners would get exactly 0 voucher tags and they would have to draw for tags the like the rest of us instead of playing "kings deer" with THE PUBLICS wildlife.

 

[PathFinder]

If it was up to most of us on here landowners would get exactly 0 voucher tags and they would have to draw for tags the like the rest of us instead of playing "kings deer" with THE PUBLICS wildlife.

Agreed, Utah may be the very worst state for that. It's shocking how much of the tag pool goes to landowners. And those tags all get sold through the big outfitters.

So many of you are so mad, why aren't you mad at the people who caused the root of the problem? The price increases are a symptom, not the root cause.

 

[Fitzwho]

Is there a state in the intermountain west that nonresidents don’t pay for the majority of wildlife agencies budget?

Residents of Utah have a right to hunt and fish, per the state constitution. Nonresidents are extended the privilege to come here to hunt or fish. Just the way it is and if you want to do it, well your going to have to pay for it.

It is funny to me when people complain when states raise the prices for nonresidents and then continue to apply. Why do you think they keep raising the prices?

You can't tell me with a straight face that Utah residents wouldn't be up in arms if this proposal included doubling resident fees... All making these exact same complaints seen in this forum.

As I stated before, I understand that residents have preference, I have no issue there. I apply in 15 states as a nonresident, resident preference isn't news. If this proposal had been a 50% tag/app fee increase, I really wouldn't have batted an eye, as Utah has been a relatively cheap state to apply for year to year, even with the terrible odds of actually drawing. Now it will still have those same terrible odds and be the most expensive state I apply for. Makes Nevada look like a deal.

Unfortunately, I don't think even these new prices are quite to a point that will scare off a big portion of nonresidents. At least for LE opportunities, as the quality is there in most places in Utah. If this does get approved, I would guess you will see a peak in applications this year and likely only see about 60% of the people that draw general deer tags in 2025 come back in 2026 to start building points for general deer again. I don't see the applications for limited entry anything going down much, would be surprised if it's even a 10% drop.

Don't get me wrong, I am 100% complaining, but I'm not mad... it sucks, but "mad" is a stretch. All I have to do is revamp my budget for applications next year. Maybe I drop a few species, maybe I don't.

 

[CorbLand]

You can't tell me with a straight face that Utah residents wouldn't be up in arms if this proposal included doubling resident fees... All making these exact same complaints seen in this forum.

As I stated before, I understand that residents have preference, I have no issue there. I apply in 15 states as a nonresident, resident preference isn't news. If this proposal had been a 50% tag/app fee increase, I really wouldn't have batted an eye, as Utah has been a relatively cheap state to apply for year to year, even with the terrible odds of actually drawing. Now it will still have those same terrible odds and be the most expensive state I apply for. Makes Nevada look like a deal.

Unfortunately, I don't think even these new prices are quite to a point that will scare off a big portion of nonresidents. At least for LE opportunities, as the quality is there in most places in Utah. If this does get approved, I would guess you will see a peak in applications this year and likely only see about 60% of the people that draw general deer tags in 2025 come back in 2026 to start building points for general deer again. I don't see the applications for limited entry anything going down much, would be surprised if it's even a 10% drop.

Don't get me wrong, I am 100% complaining, but I'm not mad... it sucks, but "mad" is a stretch. All I have to do is revamp my budget for applications next year. Maybe I drop a few species, maybe I don't.

Residents would be burning down the Capitol if they raised them 10%.

Who knows, maybe your odds will only get better. A bunch of people drop out of applying and you have less competition.