Utah at it again?

[sneaky]

The reason the BLM and FS are hamstrung and don't manage the land like most states want is because the politicians in Washington who are pro land transfer keep stripping funding from them. Then they can go to their constituents and say " see what a terrible job they are doing ". It's all part of the long term strategy.

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[Billinsd]

One of the things I have read repeatedly about state management is the local control aspect. To those that harp on that point which politician do you think is easiest to buy off for special interest, your national elected representatives or your state legislators and/or county commissioners? The locals will chase the dollar (and sell you out) for much less than your national reps will. Also those people managing the land working for federal agencies live in and contribute to your communities they aren't some faceless boogie man behind the curtain.

My way of thinking that state and local control is better than federal is mostly for local econonies in small towns. Examples are federal land closed off to mining, oil and gas exploration, timber industry, etc. than can provides jobs and help local economies.

Those federal agency workers seem a whole lot better in states other than California!! I just about drove off the road reading a BLM sign welcoming people to "your land" I stopped and took a photo and stared for about twenty minutes. It AIN'T like that at all in California. Our Forest Circus and BLM dopes are nothing like the ones I've seen in other states. Here in California the feds make accessing federal land especially for hunting as hard as possible. They post signs with huge letters NO SHOOTING and in teeny tiny print, unless while in lawful pursuit of game animals. The feds in California that I have seen, seem to have been completely hijacked by anti hunters.

 

[idahohikker]

I think that most people wanting state ownership of public lands are caught up in the sagebrush rebellion rhetoric and don't understand that state ownership means public lands get sold and locked up. Federal ownership of public lands is clearly the best way according to all of the informed individuals I've spoken to or read.

 

[Travis Bertrand]

thanks for keeping it civil guys!

 

[Billinsd]

The reason the BLM and FS are hamstrung and don't manage the land like most states want is because the politicians in Washington who are pro land transfer keep stripping funding from them. Then they can go to their constituents and say " see what a terrible job they are doing ". It's all part of the long term strategy.

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That's speculation. It could be true or not true.

 

[Billinsd]

I think that most people wanting state ownership of public lands are caught up in the sagebrush rebellion rhetoric and don't understand that state ownership means public lands get sold and locked up. Federal ownership of public lands is clearly the best way according to all of the informed individuals I've spoken to or read.

Why does public state land have to get locked up or sold? People have made arguments that, that's what will happen. Has that been happening to a great degree in Western States recently?

 

[CorbLand]

My way of thinking that state and local control is better than federal is mostly for local econonies in small towns. Examples are federal land closed off to mining, oil and gas exploration, timber industry, etc. than can provides jobs and help local economies.

Those federal agency workers seem a whole lot better in states other than California!! I just about drove off the road reading a BLM sign welcoming people to "your land" I stopped and took a photo and stared for about twenty minutes. It AIN'T like that at all in California. Our Forest Circus and BLM dopes are nothing like the ones I've seen in other states. Here in California the feds make accessing federal land especially for hunting as hard as possible. They post signs with huge letters NO SHOOTING and in teeny tiny print, unless while in lawful pursuit of game animals. The feds in California that I have seen, seem to have been completely hijacked by anti hunters.

You do realize you just made the strongest case for keeping Public Lands in the hands of the Federal Government right? Its California making the rules that are restricting your use of that land, not the Feds. The Federal Government can't pick and choose which states its going to make a rule for and which states don't have to abide by it. I highly suggest you take a good look at the differences between State laws and Federal laws.

 

[Billinsd]

Yes, absolutely great people and good moral values. My mother still lives there and I'm out there quite often. But, it has been said that the people are - due to certain religious influences - collectively rather naive. Which is why a lot of people might prefer to have a larger voting group decide the fate of public lands. But yeah, I can also see the merits of an argument in favor of local control.

Thanks you articulated that very well. I can understand things better.

 

[sneaky]

Why does public state land have to get locked up or sold? People have made arguments that, that's what will happen. Has that been happening to a great degree in Western States recently?

Colorado state land, day use only. You are not allowed to camp on. State land in Arizona, same thing. Randy Newberg has some excellent podcasts on this subject. State of Utah has 4 or 5 state land sales every year. Nevada has sold off about 99% of their state land. Yes, it has been happening for a long time.

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[sneaky]

thanks for keeping it civil guys!

We'll know it's serious once the #LEGEND shows up!

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[Billinsd]

You do realize you just made the strongest case for keeping Public Lands in the hands of the Federal Government right? Its California making the rules that are restricting your use of that land, not the Feds. The Federal Government can't pick and choose which states its going to make a rule for and which states don't have to abide by it. I highly suggest you take a good look at the differences between State laws and Federal laws.

No, I made the case that California Federal lands should be managed by folks living outside of California. LOL. No, I see your point, the local crazies in the fed in California are bad and local feds in rural areas seem to be better. I think I have gotten way of track with my disdain of the federal government. I've read too many horror stories of fed agencies creating too many rules and regulations and they have gotten out of hand. Reducing the size and influence of these agencies bureaucracies and reducing regulations and increasing access would be good.

 

[Jskaanland]

Why does public state land have to get locked up or sold? People have made arguments that, that's what will happen. Has that been happening to a great degree in Western States recently?

Most western states' constitutions require their state land to produce income. If it can't they sell it off. A bad fire season would bankrupt a state, forcing them to sell off their land.

Check out the Elliott state forest in oregon. They were going to sell it until people flipped a lid.

 

[CorbLand]

Seriously, Youtube Randy Newburg, Hunter and watch his stuff on this. He does videos that explain everything that people have been saying it will all make sense why we don't want the lands given to the States. I don't think anyone would argue that they don't want the land being controlled by the States. But the negative consequences that would come with that far out weigh any good.

 

[Billinsd]

Colorado state land, day use only. You are not allowed to camp on. State land in Arizona, same thing. Randy Newberg has some excellent podcasts on this subject. State of Utah has 4 or 5 state land sales every year. Nevada has sold off about 99% of their state land. Yes, it has been happening for a long time.

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Thanks! I posted above that reducing the bureaucracy of the federal agencies and reducing their regulations to allow greater access and to allow reasonable resource development sounds good. I just don't like how the federal agencies have grown in the last few decades.

 

[Billinsd]

Seriously, Youtube Randy Newburg, Hunter and watch his stuff on this. He does videos that explain everything that people have been saying it will all make sense why we don't want the lands given to the States. I don't think anyone would argue that they don't want the land being controlled by the States. But the negative consequences that would come with that far out weigh any good.

That's a great argument. Thanks!

 

[Billinsd]

Most western states' constitutions require their state land to produce income. If it can't they sell it off. A bad fire season would bankrupt a state, forcing them to sell off their land.

Check out the Elliott state forest in oregon. They were going to sell it until people flipped a lid.

Great point. This is a real difficult for me, because of my strong political beliefs. Real strong political beliefs!!!

 

[CorbLand]

Why is it that people view the Federal Government as owning land making it bigger? I mean you could argue that they have more authority over a larger area but the laws remain the same. Its not like once they own so much land they are going to start making regulations any different. In the end, when the Federal Government gets more land, it opens up more land for citizen. Yes, you may not be able to recreate on it exactly as you would like but you can still use that land. Very little Federal managed land is off limits to citizens and if it is, there is generally a good reason, i.e habitat restoration.
Thats the problem, The Federal Government has to manage land for multiple use. I have to be able to hunt it, Jimmy has to be able to run cattle on it and Billy has to be able to ride his ATV on it. So when they close a trail to increase habitat for animals, Billy gets angry and claims the Federal Government is shut you out of your land. You can still use that land, you just can't take your ATV there. And when the land gets over grazed by Jimmys cattle, I complain and its a never ending cycle.

 

[Billinsd]

I did a little research into the Sagebrush Rebellion. All my hero's like Reagan, Goldwater and others were rebels. Some wanted state transfer, others less regulation and more local control. James Watt became secretary of the Interior rolled back regulations and gave locals more say and the rebellion fizzled. Sounds good to me let's do that again!

 

[Billinsd]

Why is it that people view the Federal Government as owning land making it bigger? I mean you could argue that they have more authority over a larger area but the laws remain the same. Its not like once they own so much land they are going to start making regulations any different. In the end, when the Federal Government gets more land, it opens up more land for citizen. Yes, you may not be able to recreate on it exactly as you would like but you can still use that land. Very little Federal managed land is off limits to citizens and if it is, there is generally a good reason, i.e habitat restoration.
Thats the problem, The Federal Government has to manage land for multiple use. I have to be able to hunt it, Jimmy has to be able to run cattle on it and Billy has to be able to ride his ATV on it. So when they close a trail to increase habitat for animals, Billy gets angry and claims the Federal Government is shut you out of your land. You can still use that land, you just can't take your ATV there. And when the land gets over grazed by Jimmys cattle, I complain and its a never ending cycle.

I'm pro multiple use. There has gotta be a balance. I'm anti regulations, the less the better. Less regulations means more access for hunting too.

 

[CorbLand]

I don't like regulations anymore than the next but we tried running this Country on no regulations, it didn't work so well. I don't see how less regulation is going to increase my hunting? Hunting and animals are managed at a State level, not Federal. There is very little the Federal Government does to hinder my access to hunting. I can point out a lot that States do...