Ultralight Ultralight Rifles

[SLG]

I don't disagree with you guys in theory, but in practice, my lightweight precision rifles still hold .5 moa for me, just like my heavyweight rifles do. I'm using precision rifles as an example, as the accuracy is a known quantity, unlike the ultralight AR's or other builds. Bartlein, Lilja and Kreeger barrels mostly, though I have had others as well. GAP, APA, AI and others for the builds. Ekeing out maximum accuracy is easier with a heavier gun. A lighter gun needs more technique and practice, but can still do the same job. The forgiveness of a heavier gun is what keeps pros using them when it counts.

 

[Thegman]

I don't disagree with you guys in theory, but in practice, my lightweight precision rifles still hold .5 moa for me, just like my heavyweight rifles do. I'm using precision rifles as an example, as the accuracy is a known quantity, unlike the ultralight AR's or other builds. Bartlein, Lilja and Kreeger barrels mostly, though I have had others as well. GAP, APA, AI and others for the builds. Ekeing out maximum accuracy is easier with a heavier gun. A lighter gun needs more technique and practice, but can still do the same job. The forgiveness of a heavier gun is what keeps pros using them when it counts.

No argument here. I can shoot my Montana well enough year after year (consistently sub-moa for 3 anyway) that there would be no practical reason to carry a rifle 2x as heavy for the shots I make while hunting, which are within 300 yards 99% of.the time. I might be able to shoot a heavier rifle better, IDK, but I don't need to.

I mention the Montana as an example and not one of the ultra-ultralights as I don't have nearly the track record with them yet, but so far, so good.

 

[h2so4]

I've been watching this thread with intrigue. I've been interested in a 6 ARC build in a Tikka or Howa, but that required significant cost for the Tikka. Less so on the Howa, but still at least $700 or more if I wait for a rokstok. I'm in a .243 or larger state.

I've got a skeletonized Era3 Lower with all the titanium bits (linked below) that I think might be a good candidate to build a 6 ARC upper on. Does this seem like a realistic approach? I don't care if it's semi or the bolt action- but I figure if I keep the lower as-is, the I could use an adjustable gas block if I wanted single shot.

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[packgoatguy]

I've been watching this thread with intrigue. I've been interested in a 6 ARC build in a Tikka or Howa, but that required significant cost for the Tikka. Less so on the Howa, but still at least $700 or more if I wait for a rokstok. I'm in a .243 or larger state.

I've got a skeletonized Era3 Lower with all the titanium bits (linked below) that I think might be a good candidate to build a 6 ARC upper on. Does this seem like a realistic approach? I don't care if it's semi or the bolt action- but I figure if I keep the lower as-is, the I could use an adjustable gas block if I wanted single shot.

Meet "The Grunt" From EraThr3 | Soldier Systems Daily

The Scenario Last month I spent a few days with Buck Doyle of Follow Through Consulting in Utah courtesy of PROOF Research. During his Scoped Carbine Course ...

soldiersystems.net

A couple thoughts: a stripped carbon fiber lower from NFA or Tennessee arms will run just $30-40, and the lightweight poly LPK (lower parts kit) is another $30 or so... the cheapest parts in the whole build, and they will be likely lighter weight by a couple ounces than a skeletonized aluminum lower. If you ditch the gas components completely, you can run folding stocks and the rifle will be quieter with a suppressor.

If you want to talk about the possibilities weight-wise with a tikka, I've got a factory superlite 6.5cm cut to 16" that is weighing in at 4lbs 14oz bare rifle, including mag and a folding stock. Everything except the cutting/threading of the barrel and fluting of the bolt was done with parts bought online that anyone could install themselves. If I ditch the folder, I can be in the 4lb 10oz range, but I'm thinking that is about the ragged end of possibility with getting a tikka any lighter.

You mentioned the rokstock, the stockys VG that it's based off if can usually be had on sale for around $380... and a few grip modifications can be done to make it every bit as shootable... and a couple ounces lighter. Plus, the word is Stockys will have a kimber 84m mold sometime this year... which could be a fairly inexpensive option to get you into the mid 4lb bare rifle range, and have a stock with a vertical grip that is far more shootable than the factory kimber stocks imo.

 

[h2so4]

@packgoatguy fair points- thank you very much for the feedback. I've got a 6.5cm Adirondack as well and really like it. the stockys stock is probably going to be better, so that will be evaluated, too.
I guess why not build another AR based rifle, especially if the components are that cheap. the transfer at the FFL is going to be the same price as the lower. haha.
I'm not an ounce counter, but I do like light things. I absolutely want a folding stock, so this is making more sense. I'll use a TBAC Ultra 5 that I already have.

Will the geissele AR triggers work with the poly lower? I can't see why not, but figured it's worth asking.

 

[packgoatguy]

@packgoatguy fair points- thank you very much for the feedback. I've got a 6.5cm Adirondack as well and really like it. the stockys stock is probably going to be better, so that will be evaluated, too.
I guess why not build another AR based rifle, especially if the components are that cheap. the transfer at the FFL is going to be the same price as the lower. haha.
I'm not an ounce counter, but I do like light things. I absolutely want a folding stock, so this is making more sense. I'll use a TBAC Ultra 5 that I already have.

Will the geissele AR triggers work with the poly lower? I can't see why not, but figured it's worth asking.

I put a Geissele in my carbon lower (TNA)... a 1.7 ounce penalty, but I think it was worth it. Shooting sub moa so far.

 

[SLG]

A couple thoughts: a stripped carbon fiber lower from NFA or Tennessee arms will run just $30-40, and the lightweight poly LPK (lower parts kit) is another $30 or so... the cheapest parts in the whole build, and they will be likely lighter weight by a couple ounces than a skeletonized aluminum lower. If you ditch the gas components completely, you can run folding stocks and the rifle will be quieter with a suppressor.

If you want to talk about the possibilities weight-wise with a tikka, I've got a factory superlite 6.5cm cut to 16" that is weighing in at 4lbs 14oz bare rifle, including mag and a folding stock. Everything except the cutting/threading of the barrel and fluting of the bolt was done with parts bought online that anyone could install themselves. If I ditch the folder, I can be in the 4lb 10oz range, but I'm thinking that is about the ragged end of possibility with getting a tikka any lighter.

You mentioned the rokstock, the stockys VG that it's based off if can usually be had on sale for around $380... and a few grip modifications can be done to make it every bit as shootable... and a couple ounces lighter. Plus, the word is Stockys will have a kimber 84m mold sometime this year... which could be a fairly inexpensive option to get you into the mid 4lb bare rifle range, and have a stock with a vertical grip that is far more shootable than the factory kimber stocks imo.

Can you post some pics and details on that Tikka? I'd be very interested in converting one of mine.

 

[StupidLightweight]

Can you post some pics and details on that Tikka? I'd be very interested in converting one of mine.

Yes, please share more about that ultralight Tikka. Sound badass. Packgoatguy, you're my new hero!

 

[JBradley500]

This is my take on an ultra ultralight AR, similar (but more metal) to one @Thegman has shown.

Solo 300 upper
M4E1 lower
Aero steel LPK
G2S trigger
Faxon 16" pencil with tapped gas port/set screw and a thermal fit stainless sleeve overtop (.750" OD x .624" ID x 1" long)
10.25" KAW Valley handguard
Hogue 15° grip
B5 Car stock
Aero buffer tube/buffer plate/nut
10 round P Mag
Aluminum thread protector
Aluminum picrail sling mount
Homemade 3/8" sling
Sig Romeo 5
An excessive amount of Aeroshell 64 and Lucas gun oil
Some electrical tape on the buffer to stop rattling

4lbs 5oz with everything attached except ammo.

I have a bunch of 77 TMKs loaded and should shoot ~2600FPS out of this. The whole package should work perfectly for my Northeast deer hunting. A lot of tree stands or walking through thick brush. Not many shots over 100 yards. Can't wait to get it out and get it sighted in this weekend.

 

[JBradley500]

I forgot to mention that my 16" gas AR I hunted with last year is 5lbs 3 oz HEAVIER with an LPVO, and while I love having it on me, it sure was noticeably heavy.

 

[packgoatguy]

Can you post some pics and details on that Tikka? I'd be very interested in converting one of mine.

Complete rifles as shown include:
8.0 oz suppressor
6.5 oz tripod
27.1 oz scope/rings/caps/level
Magazines

Stockys Carbon VG Stock includes:
0.65 oz arca/fasteners (Wiser Precision)
20.3oz after "improvements" (bare stock weight)
Factory plastic bottom metal
Velcro on cheek riser
Velcro on grip extension
Titanium Recoil Lug (atlasworks)
Titanium Action Screws (high velocity hunting Australia)

Barreled action in the Stockys VG is a factory T3 Stainless Superlite 223rem cut to 16 inches and threaded 1/2x28, has thread adapter to 5/8x24.

Barreled action in the MDT chassis is a factory T3X Stainless Superlite 6.5creedmoor cut to 16 inches and threaded 1/2x28, has thread adapter to 5/8x24. It has the same folding stock setup I designed for my 5lb Straightpull AR 223wylde that I described a couple pages back. It also has the new MDT 3 round AICS short action mag, which is actually lighter weight than a factory Tikka mag. 1.3oz if I recall correctly.

Both rifles have:
Fluted Bolt
Ti Bolt nob (MTN Gear)
Ti trigger bolt (high velocity hunting Australia)
Ti bolt catch (high velocity hunting Australia)

Scopes are both Trijicon Credo 2.5-15x42 in DNZ 1 piece rings.

Mods to the Stockys stock took off a bit more than 4 ounces.

The fluting on the 6.5 bolt is called the "X Pattern" from LRI, I had to ask specifically to have it cut as deep as it is.

 

[SLG]

Interesting stuff, thank you. Is that stocky's stock lighter than the factory plastic?

Unrelated but I picked up a WC NULA last year. It is similar to my original NULA, but better in some ways and worse in others. Overall a very nice rifle for the money.

 

[packgoatguy]

Interesting stuff, thank you. Is that stocky's stock lighter than the factory plastic?

Unrelated but I picked up a WC NULA last year. It is similar to my original NULA, but better in some ways and worse in others. Overall a very nice rifle for the money.

Yes, the Stockys stock is 4 ounces lighter than the factory plastic stock. (Comparing bare stocks side by side, no recoil pad, no sling studs, etc)

 

[180ls1]

Has anyone built one of these in 243/25 WSSM?

 

[Thegman]

Has anyone built one of these in 243/25 WSSM?

Not that I know of, and I don't know what would be involved in getting that to work. I would guess extraction (and recoil perhaps) would be difficult, but I don't know. If you look into it, let us know what would be involved.

 

[180ls1]

Not that I know of, and I don't know what would be involved in getting that to work. I would guess extraction (and recoil perhaps) would be difficult, but I don't know. If you look into it, let us know what would be involved.

Will do. I know the 223 is popular here but I like more punch.

*time to dig in for a fight lol*

 

[StupidLightweight]

The WSSMs use a .540 bolt face, so it will not be a DIY job, but it can be done.

Compared to standard cartridge families like the .223, .224 Valkyrie/6.8, Grendel/ARC, or even .308/.450 Bushmaster, there's only one maker of .540 bolts that I'm aware of, and his name is Mike Milli at DTECH. They offer bolts/barrel extensions for the WSSM family.

It likely won't come cheap, but you'll get your bolt-action AR with punch. Let us know how it turns out.

Mike Milli

Dedicated Technology

(218) 444-7419

www.dtechuppers.com


WSSM (left) compared to .223 (right)

Personally, I wouldn't mess with the WSSM family due to brass availability. It's bad now. Imagine what it'll be like in 15 years.

 

[ChrisAU]

Got my 350 legend upper in today. If I can figure out what tool I need to remove the barrel nut my new handguard should be here tomorrow. Then it’ll be time for spray paint to go pssssshhhh pssshhhhhh

Oh and also the IMI stock DOES have a QD point.

 

[Thegman]

Got my 350 legend upper in today. If I can figure out what tool I need to remove the barrel nut my new handguard should be here tomorrow. Then it’ll be time for spray paint to go pssssshhhh pssshhhhhh

Oh and also the IMI stock DOES have a QD point.

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That's a cool build. What does it weigh?

The barrel nut should come off with a castle nut wrench. Mine got a little dinged putting it on and taking it off though.

Let us know how it shoots.

 

[SLG]

My build is starting to come together, just really need a barrel. Shaw said no.