Trials bike vs dirt bike/TW for hunting.

[robcollins]

As a fellow Tee-Dubber, would you maybe consider a few trail friendly modifications? It'll save you a good bit of cash & transform the bike.

1: Stiffer fork springs, balance the oil correctly & upgrade the rear spring.

2: Shitcan the Cycleracks rear rack & replace it with a Tusk. Stronger, more streamlined & just all around nicer. Trash the front rack entirely.

3: Switch out your (presumably) stock, 50 tooth rear sprocket for a 54 or 55 tooth. It'll make first gear useless on the road & bring your top speed down to around 45, but you'll be able to climb like a Spider Monkey on PCP.

4 If you're ok spending the money: Put a Shinko 241 tire up front to replace that heavy, uneven tread MotoX number. Do a trailer wheel conversion at the back. That opens up an entire world of 12" ATV tires with a far more suitable tread.

All said, that's going to run you about a grand. $500 of that is the rear wheel conversion.
However, you will be literally floored by how much better the bike is at handling single track, mud, rock, off-trail, snow & sand. The rear wheel alone inspires 100% more confidence.

I used to ride competitive technical trials back in England & I honestly couldn't imagine a worse bike for carrying any kind of load.

Great comment. Thank you!

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[TheGDog]

but you'll be able to climb like a Spider Monkey on PCP.

BUAAAHAHAHAAA!! "I'm gon' come atchu like a SPIDER-MONKEY!!!"

 

[TheGDog]

As a fellow Tee-Dubber, would you maybe consider a few trail friendly modifications? It'll save you a good bit of cash & transform the bike.

1: Stiffer fork springs, balance the oil correctly & upgrade the rear spring.

2: Shitcan the Cycleracks rear rack & replace it with a Tusk. Stronger, more streamlined & just all around nicer. Trash the front rack entirely.

3: Switch out your (presumably) stock, 50 tooth rear sprocket for a 54 or 55 tooth. It'll make first gear useless on the road & bring your top speed down to around 45, but you'll be able to climb like a Spider Monkey on PCP.

4 If you're ok spending the money: Put a Shinko 241 tire up front to replace that heavy, uneven tread MotoX number. Do a trailer wheel conversion at the back. That opens up an entire world of 12" ATV tires with a far more suitable tread.

All said, that's going to run you about a grand. $500 of that is the rear wheel conversion.
However, you will be literally floored by how much better the bike is at handling single track, mud, rock, off-trail, snow & sand. The rear wheel alone inspires 100% more confidence.

I used to ride competitive technical trials back in England & I honestly couldn't imagine a worse bike for carrying any kind of load.

RE: #1

By the way... to anyone reading this thread... you're supposed to do these things with ANY dirt moto you obtain for your own personal use!

It's imperative that you do things like set the proper amount of rear suspension sag, when you're seated upon the bike. Then... on that first trail-ride, What are you noticing? Too Soft? You can try to stiffen a weak spring a lil bit by using the preload adjuster... BUT... that will make your bike be a little more "pogo-y" in the rear, especially in braking bumps. So if you're having to tighten the preload adjuster an inordinant amount, in order to obtain proper seated-on-the-bike-with-all-your-gear-on rear suspension sag... then you know you need to look into ordering a stiffer spring.

And... if you have "a suspension guy" that you take your racing dirtbikes too, be a good idea to consult such a guy even though it's a lesser bike. He may know of the "hot-setup" people are doing with that particular model. An as example, sometimes there are older dirtbikes models whose suspension components are pretty darn basic. So on some of those... people might either find a "cartridge fork" (meaning not an upside down fork, but it has a valving cartridge within it) from another model, which happens to fit the bike.. then they just have to possibly adjust spring rates by obtaining a new spring.
OR...
sometimes companies make a cartridge-insert that can be retro-fitted into the older forks. So those older forks get the benefit of better, more progressive, dampening characteristics out of the suspension.

ALSO: I want to mirror what he's says here about getting stuff OFF the front forks. In general... it's a bad idea to put weight onto the front forks. Can affect steering in odd ways, especially at speed.

EDIT: Also another, crude, dirt-biker trick.... when you're standing beside your dirtbike... place your boot upon the footpegs and violently push down against the footpeg. Is the bike dipping down in a level way front-to-back? If not, work on adjustments until it does!

 

[Walmart Greeter]

Didn’t some YouTube elk hunters get in trouble last year for using dirt bikes on a closed road?

 

[Wanttohuntmore]

Been using 87 TLR 200's for 30 years. They are not perfect but will work in technical areas. I've got a trail 110, mx bikes, xr's, and a Rokon, and probably use the TLR the most.

 

[TheGDog]

Been using 87 TLR 200's for 30 years. They are not perfect but will work in technical areas. I've got a trail 110, mx bikes, xr's, and a Rokon, and probably use the TLR the most.

I remember being very curious to ride one of those back in the day! To see how Trials-like they are.

Bet those would be pretty optimal for this task. Low seat-height, so you can dab your feet whenever you want. But still actually HAS a nice-ish seat to it, not like the true Trials bikes with just a minor butt-pad. So you can actually sit sometimes.

And thinner normal-sized tires so you can judiciously pick your lines on the trails. And more importantly the weight bias being more Trials-bike oriented would no doubt allow you to creep around tight precarious little goat trails much easier than most other bike styles.

 

[Sneaker]

I've never been a biker, could see some positives with using them over other machines in some situations, something to consider I guess.

 

[Blockcaver]

I did not like my TLR Honda 200 near as well as the TL250 Trials bike. It was significantly heavier and to me underpowered at high elevation (timberline mining roads…about 11,500’). Didn’t handle as well either. The seat and lights were OK tho.

 

[TheGDog]

I did not like my TLR Honda 200 near as well as the TL250 Trials bike. It was significantly heavier and to me underpowered at high elevation (timberline mining roads…about 11,500’). Didn’t handle as well either. The seat and lights were OK tho.

Well.... it is a Carbuerated (Naturally aspirated) bike, so yeah... if you're not changing the jetting to deal with altitude you're gonna lose power. That's one of the reasons for making them with EFI, so the sensors can automatically adjust based on the O2 air-density sensors. Right?

 

[Wanttohuntmore]

I had a TL125 and TL250 along with the TLR200's. The 250 clearly had more power but the others were sufficient with lowered gearing and much lighter. There's a guy out of Tennessee that sells a 10t front, 50t back combo that really makes the TLR goat trail friendly. Course top speed is then about 28 mph.... there's no perfect bike.

 

[TheGDog]

I would say you'd need to think about... what kinda weight we're talking about here in terms of Rider + pack/gear + deboned Mule Deer + Head & Hide added-up together. (or whichever game animal you're focused on)

Because THAT... together with how technical/steep of a terrain you're in... will influence how much power you'd tend to consider the bare-minimum you feel you'd need. Based on your experience with riding thru their solo beforehand to size it up.

Ya have to figure a good metric would be something like... Would you attempt to ride that bike into that place, riding 2-up with like a younger brother, or petite girlfriend sitting behind you?

If your thought is something like, "no way in hell", then I'd have to imagine with the extra weight of the meat+head+hide on your back... ya just might appreciate something with a little more oomph if you're terrain is like more alpine or steep desert slopes, and you're faced occasionally with climbs or descents with enough steepness to them that they make ya tense... it's always better to have a little more power on tap than you need. Ya know?

So... if you don't weigh as much, you'd likely be able to get away with using a smaller engine size as your bare minimum.

I'd think for most grown men... a 200cc 4T powerplant would be the smallest size to consider for this role (but you'd probably have to do some dog-paddling with your feet sometimes I'd imagine).

And the bare minimum would just go up and up from there like if you're in the 200+ Lbs club, or 300+ Lbs club, ya know?

Then there's skill level of the user to consider. Lotta these guys have never really hauled major @zz before or done long technical rides that take ya far away from your vehicle into places where you're thankful for having today's Personal Locator Beacons hangin' on ya! So there's THAT to consider as well.

If they've done a lotta rides, than seat height becomes less of a hindrance, though I'd imagine for hunting a lower seat height would pretty much help everyone across the board.

That guy, with less hours under his belt... he's gonna need a bike skewed more towards a beginner in terms of amount of power, and how the power comes on. Because you're also gonna have added onto that mix... the fact that this guy is gonna now have a heavy pack on, which adds a BIG increase in level of difficulty/exertion/exhaustion, especially navigating slow tight twisted downhills where you're riding the brakes the whole way down? MURDER on Triceps! with a heavy pack on!

So, gotta do all the things to stack the odds in their favor, the better. Like taking the time to dial-in the suspension for that guys weight and level of aggressiveness in riding, for example. You cannot BELIEVE the night-and-day difference in a moto's ride quality when suspension sag not set properly vs when set properly!

 

[Wanttohuntmore]

If your on goat trails where your dabbing a bunch, another option is the Rokon or Christini. 2x2 bikes really help a bunch getting through obstacles at slower speeds. Power isn't needed if the gearing is low enough. I ride most weekends all styles of offroad/mx bikes and there is no perfect bike. Here's my dad on my Rokon which is only 7Hp, and my KX which is 42 HP. I rarely hunt with the KX.

 

[Wanttohuntmore]

Guess two attachments was a little too large. Also look at the Ubco 2x2 e bike.

 

[Blockcaver]

Well.... it is a Carbuerated (Naturally aspirated) bike, so yeah... if you're not changing the jetting to deal with altitude you're gonna lose power. That's one of the reasons for making them with EFI, so the sensors can automatically adjust based on the O2 air-density sensors. Right?

G dog, both bikes were properly jetted for high altitude….10,000 ft. In fact when I sold the TL250 to a buddy that moved down to AZ with it…he fried the engine right away in the lowlands ans he had not rejected it back to factory.

For those that don’t know the Honda TL250, it has a magnesium four stroke engine. The dry weight was only 210# or there about as I remember the specs. The TLR200 was quite a bit heavier when I’d throw it around loading it, etc.

I lived in CO for 35 yrs. Worked at and recreated around two mine sites that were 10,300’ and 11,300’ at the office. Fully understand proper carb jetting and how altitude causes power loss, even if properly jetted….roughly 3% for each extra 1,000’ of elevation. Huge deal!

And for me the TLR200 was underpowered with 170# rider and a backpack that might have weighed 40# going in. I did pack an archery ram out with it, but that was all down hill!

 

[TheGDog]

And for me the TLR200 was underpowered with 170# rider and a backpack that might have weighed 40# going in. I did pack an archery ram out with it, but that was all down hill!

Ok Cool, thanks for sharing those details so these other guys have more info in making their purchase decision!

So if I understand right, sounds like for rider of your weight and riding-style/level-of-attack when riding...250cc 4T is the base minimum for your amount of rider weight + pack weight.

That tracks I'd say. Cause I was probably like 140-160Lbs during HS years when I rode and jumped the snot out of that XL200R.

The more weight you're carrying, or if you're going to attempt to ride 2-up on a trail? Gotta start having bigger and bigger engine to make it easier, so you're not having to scream the crap out of it while slipping the heck out of the clutch to keep the revs up going up some crawl-thru rocky goat-trail isht, ya know?

Also.. if it's more of a trail bike by design. If the area you're going into is quite technical and requires a bit of clutch work and brake work. I whole-heartedly recommend to anyone that you do setup things like... how strong is the cable-pull for your front brake and clutch levers? You want to eliminate force needed there to actuate those levers.. in order to delay the onset of forearm-pump while riding.

So if it's traditional cables. Maybe upgrade to Terry-Cables, which are lined with Teflon.

Or.. if possible... consider switching over to a hydraulic line setup! Having Hydro levers up front is soo nice on long technical rides where you gotta finesse things a lot with clutch and front brake. Only drawback there is if ya have a crash and it compromises a hydraulic line. There's no jerry-rigging it when you're in the middle of nowhere.

When it's cables, if needed, sometimes you can figure out how to jerry-rig how to actuate the cable whose cable-end that hooks into the lever, broke off or something.

OH... also... can be a good idea to also carry a spare lever. If you do a setup with both of the levers being from same manufacture... sometimes the levers can be interchangeable, so you'd only have to carry 1 spare.

Also.. if you haven't yet... all you guys considering accessing hunting land via moto. You should also occasionally practice riding the bike without using the clutch... and still making gear-shifts. There's a right-way to do it. Ask your riding friends. One of them should be able to explain it.

 

[nphunter]

Found a seat kit for the Montesa, removed the 4” bar riser and out peg extensions on. It’s been a blast ridding it around the house, hopefully I’ll be able to get into the woods in the next month or so to test it out!! So far I’m loving the bike, it’s very nimble and has endless low end with the gearing. I’ve also ridden it down the asphalt to the gas station and up the road and it will do 40+ with ease and low rpm’s in 5th gear.

The seat showed up today and it a perfect height for me, still plenty low to step off if I need to but tall enough to offer some comfort when giving the legs a break. This this is going to be unstoppable in the woods! They also make a road kit with signals and a license plate for the bike, not sure I want to add all that weight and stuff to break but I may put the headlight kit on it.

 

[TheGDog]

"Unstoppable in the woods" ... (Looks at the size of that fuel tank.)

 

[nphunter]

"Unstoppable in the woods" ... (Looks at the size of that fuel tank.)

I spend 3hrs shed hunting on it yesterday and never ran out. Obviously I’m not doing enduro on it, I can easily haul an extra tank full under the seat and could add an extra reserve tank if needed. I’ll never take it far enough that I need more than that.

It is does unbelievably well in the woods on tough single track and cross country. I went places yesterday I wouldn’t have dreamed of taking the TW and did it with ease. I’m super happy with the bike. The nice thing about the tank is it’s aluminum so I could always pull it off and easily modify it to hold more fuel.

One annoying thing was my motorcross helmet, going downhill it kept hitting on my hunting pack when looking up at all. I need to figure that out, I had to sit down going down hills to keep it clear of my pack.

 

[ReaptheHeat]

Anyone hunted with the electric bikes coming out these days? Decent range, need some suspension work for sure if you are hauling out!

 

[ID_Matt]

Anyone hunted with the electric bikes coming out these days? Decent range, need some suspension work for sure if you are hauling out!

Beta has a cool one that looks geared for hunting. Be interested to hear reviews on it from hunters