Traveling out of state with pack animals

[jlw0142]

I have been looking at getting 2 burros/donkeys from a trainer who adopts them from the BLM in CO. I live in GA and I have land to accommodate them. My thought process is that I can go farther in the backcountry with them because I won’t have to worry so much about packing meat several miles from the truck. Plus, I can have more creature comforts and companions for solo hunting. But, that also means I have to tote them cross-country and take care of them year-round. Is it worth it?


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[loganwayne]

How many times you plan on hiking with them through the spring, summer before you go hunting? You can't just turn them out all year then expect them to pack 30-40 lbs 10 miles for you.


Personally the answer would be no.

You can get a backer to come get your game every year for a lot cheaper than owning your own stock.

 

[jlw0142]

How many times you plan on hiking with them through the spring, summer before you go hunting? You can't just turn them out all year then expect them to pack 30-40 lbs 10 miles for you.


Personally the answer would be no.

You can get a backer to come get your game every year for a lot cheaper than owning your own stock.

Yeah for sure, I’d take them hiking throughout the year and keep them in shape. There is lots of public land near home where I would pack in for fly fishing and hunting. But yeah, I totally get your point.


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[jlw0142]

How many times you plan on hiking with them through the spring, summer before you go hunting? You can't just turn them out all year then expect them to pack 30-40 lbs 10 miles for you.


Personally the answer would be no.

You can get a backer to come get your game every year for a lot cheaper than owning your own stock.

I have also heard stories of people being unable to get ahold of a packer, or the packer being unable to come. Most of my hunts will be solo, which means if I kill an elk 7 miles in, I will probably be doing like 30 miles of packing out if I can’t get a packer. I’m not arguing with you, because I completely agree, I’m just explaining my thought process. Have you always been able to get a packer to your animal?


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[Legend]

Maybe someone with more experience then me could weigh in on the veterinarian costs to cross state lines??

 

[Legend]

Maybe someone with more experience then me could weigh in on the veterinarian costs to cross state lines??

 

[loganwayne]

I have also heard stories of people being unable to get ahold of a packer, or the packer being unable to come. Most of my hunts will be solo, which means if I kill an elk 7 miles in, I will probably be doing like 30 miles of packing out if I can’t get a packer. I’m not arguing with you, because I completely agree, I’m just explaining my thought process. Have you always been able to get a packer to your animal?


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I've never needed to use a packer but I'm also not going out west every year.
But even with two animals that size your going to be making more than one trip out. Depending on their size they are going to be able to carry about 100 lbs each.

I think not being able to call out to a packer is a bigger issue than them just not coming, or they are to busy to get to you when you want. it's honestly pretty easy money for them if your not somewhere crazy.

 

[Live_weighT34]

Maybe someone with more experience then me could weigh in on the veterinarian costs to cross state lines??

Wouldn’t take much, typically you just need a health and coggins test from a vet on each animal and probably a brand inspection.
Pricing will likely depend on your vet.
And you’ll need to carry your paper work with you

 

[Live_weighT34]

Not saying you couldn’t do it or that you shouldn’t but remember what you’re asking of them, taking them from home, crossing the continent and changing climates and elevations. Trailer life is hard on animals.

 

[jlw0142]

Not saying you couldn’t do it or that you shouldn’t but remember what you’re asking of them, taking them from home, crossing the continent and changing climates and elevations. Trailer life is hard on animals.

Do you think I am asking for more issues than it’s worth?

I’ve read that you can usually let them graze and sleep overnight at rodeo grounds in small towns for a small fee/free. Any experience with that?


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[Live_weighT34]

Do you think I am asking for more issues than it’s worth?

I’ve read that you can usually let them graze and sleep overnight at rodeo grounds in small towns for a small fee/free. Any experience with that?


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Possibly. You could do 10 trips and not have an issue but with stock it’s always something. Like I said above, you’re asking a lot out of your animals going that far from home.

Plenty of experience in that area. Most small towns don’t care if you pull in for the night and throw the animals in the back pens behind the bucking chutes. Just remember to leave the pens better than you found them and shut the gates. That last one is extremely important lol

 

[jlw0142]

Possibly. You could do 10 trips and not have an issue but with stock it’s always something. Like I said above, you’re asking a lot out of your animals going that far from home.

Plenty of experience in that area. Most small towns don’t care if you pull in for the night and throw the animals in the back pens behind the bucking chutes. Just remember to leave the pens better than you found them and shut the gates. That last one is extremely important lol

Good info. Thanks man. Lots to consider. I don’t want a trip I look forward to all year to be ruined because of a couple donkeys, but I can see lots of situations where they would be really nice to have around.


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[Live_weighT34]

Good info. Thanks man. Lots to consider. I don’t want a trip I look forward to all year to be ruined because of a couple donkeys, but I can see lots of situations where they would be really nice to have around

I love packing out with horses and mules, haven’t used donkeys but as long as there’s a solid level of trust and shared experience amoung the group you should be fine.

 

[missjordan]

My opinion on the matter is this

The animals have to be really fit. I would think stock would also struggle with a change in altitude especially if you are coming from lower elevation to upper elevation. I would give them a fullday to settle in before going in deep.

Getting them to stay hydrated in transit is key. I would probably keep them on electrolytes the entire trip.

Also learn how to vet and Dr your stock. Watch out for signs of colic. Keep bute and banamine IV on hand. Know how to administer an IV shot along with other animal husbandry things. I don’t think it hurts to put everyone on an ulcer med either for the duration of the trip.

To cross state lines you need a current coggins test that is good for 1 year. Every animal will need a coggins from the vet. Plus you will need to check if your home state and the state your traveling to is a brand inspection state. Have the brand inspector out to verify brands and ownership of the animals. Travel with all paperwork proving ownership and health. Make sure everyone has current vaccines for layover spots.

Some people keep their animals in the trailer up to a day and a half without unloading. But they give them lots of breaks parked. I think that’s pretty long time. I’d like to unload them at a layover spot every night but that’s just me.

Make sure the animals all have good bedside manners. Can handle the trailer without any drama. That also will make or break you. They should also be able to stall comfortably if outdoor pens aren’t available

Personally i think it would be a PITA but so is not being able to find a packer either. People travel cross country with livestock all the time for competition. Just would have to use the animals a lot so they’re acclimated to travel around home and go.


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[Cfriend]

If you will use them year round and enjoy working with them as a hobby, it may be worthwhile. I don't know that it would be worth the expense and effort of taking care of them all the time to only use them once a year. A possible exception would be if you already have a farm and other animals.

As for taking them out, we took our own horses several years from Maryland to Colorado and never had any issues. They certainly make a big difference if you kill something. However, I have since decided that for me it is not worth it unless I have someone going along who doesn't want to hunt but enjoys the camping and taking care of the animals. If you have someone like that it's great, but otherwise it is a lot of hassle. For me, I find that I have plenty to worry about just trying to take care of my equipment and find and kill an elk. Adding taking care of horses and thinking about their health is a lot. Not to mention that there are a lot of things that can go wrong with animals that can use up your hunting time. Of course for some people, working with animals is half of the fun and they are experienced enough that they aren't worried about all of the variables - that's just not me.

Of course the animals do give you more range, but I expect that paying for a packer will be cheaper. That assumes there is a reliable one in the area though.

So to summarize, I don't think it would be worthwhile to keep animals only for hunting out west. It will be a lot of expense and effort. On the other hand, if you like working with them as a hobby and will enjoy them year round, it may work out great as long as you don't mind the extra stress/worry added to the hunting trip. If everything goes well, they can save you a bunch of work - especially when you kill something.

 

[Wprinkle]

Pack Animals- Absolutely an asset if you AND them are experienced. I take everything from mules to llamas to goats depending on situation. As far as traveling its not bad, coggins/ health ($10 at the sale barn) and brand papers. As a general rule about 10 hours is all you should travel without unloading and letting em drink/ walk around. Tied or loose let em out. Hauling wears out way more rope horses than the runs do. Stopping along the way there can be a pain if you don't know where you can stop and pen em/ tie em up. Using a trailer can be great place to sleep in grizzly country, but you also have more shit that can go wrong. 2-4 more tires, lights, sketchy ass roads to the good trail heads, so on.

Burros- I have zero experience with burros/ donkeys for packing. I would assume they are like taking horses and you have pack in feed. (goats and llamas not so much) With horses and Mules and donkey they need a lot water and often so that's a PITA. In 30 years of backcountry experience I have never seen a Donkey train. (except that one time in Mexico visiting boys town lol). I'm assuming GA is not near as rocky as the west. So their feet will get sore AF if you don't have shoes on em. I've never seen a shod donkey, and that's another problem, you throw a shoe and don't know how/ have to tools to tack one back on its like having a flat on your truck. You will make it for a while but not far. No clue what they can carry weight wise but I'm guessing its around the same as a llama for those distances and terrain.

Summary- IMO if you want the headache of donkeys you might as well spring for Mules or Llamas. The easiest and cheapest (and most of the time best option) is goats. They take 6 months to get in shape it seems but they are little studs! No clue of your backcountry and or pack animal experience so don't take this personal. Mules/ Horses (donkeys) would not be my suggestion for a low experienced person with pack animals. Especially solo.

 

[jlw0142]

Pack Animals- Absolutely an asset if you AND them are experienced. I take everything from mules to llamas to goats depending on situation. As far as traveling its not bad, coggins/ health ($10 at the sale barn) and brand papers. As a general rule about 10 hours is all you should travel without unloading and letting em drink/ walk around. Tied or loose let em out. Hauling wears out way more rope horses than the runs do. Stopping along the way there can be a pain if you don't know where you can stop and pen em/ tie em up. Using a trailer can be great place to sleep in grizzly country, but you also have more shit that can go wrong. 2-4 more tires, lights, sketchy ass roads to the good trail heads, so on.

Burros- I have zero experience with burros/ donkeys for packing. I would assume they are like taking horses and you have pack in feed. (goats and llamas not so much) With horses and Mules and donkey they need a lot water and often so that's a PITA. In 30 years of backcountry experience I have never seen a Donkey train. (except that one time in Mexico visiting boys town lol). I'm assuming GA is not near as rocky as the west. So their feet will get sore AF if you don't have shoes on em. I've never seen a shod donkey, and that's another problem, you throw a shoe and don't know how/ have to tools to tack one back on its like having a flat on your truck. You will make it for a while but not far. No clue what they can carry weight wise but I'm guessing its around the same as a llama for those distances and terrain.

Summary- IMO if you want the headache of donkeys you might as well spring for Mules or Llamas. The easiest and cheapest (and most of the time best option) is goats. They take 6 months to get in shape it seems but they are little studs! No clue of your backcountry and or pack animal experience so don't take this personal. Mules/ Horses (donkeys) would not be my suggestion for a low experienced person with pack animals. Especially solo.

This is really good info. The only thing I worry about with goats is predators. You ever had any issues? How many would you bring along on a solo elk hunt?


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[Mike 338]

Not sure what all crossing state lines with livestock entails but horse people who show their horses do it all the time. Can't be that involved. Probably something like showing they've been vaccinated.

Taking stock into the backcountry is a hassle. I use a couple mules and also hunt solo. Strange things seem to happen on the trail. One gets away from you and heads off without you or decides it's not crossing an obstacle. You have to get up early to feed and water them, twice a day. You will likely have to pack in their food before the hunt unless there is somewhere to graze them, which there usually isn't. If you do graze them, that takes a lot of time too. Training is a big time commitment and with wild burros, it's probably double or triple the time/effort of a domesticated one. Equines aren't like dogs. They're not really good company although burros are said to bond better than horses. As far as traveling with them, horses once trained travel well although you might need to have an in-between spot to overnight. It's a long term commitment that makes zero financial sense.

That said, if you get an elk down, it's hard enough getting yourself out let alone the meat. Taking stock in is a lot of work but you'll kill yourself boning out and packing elk meat by yourself so for that reason, it's absolutely worth it. Oh, and it's just cool too.

I started my animals from colts. That was hard. Nothing wrong with getting a good broke animal and remember, the purchase price is usually always the least expensive part of owning horses/stock.

 

[Wprinkle]

This is really good info. The only thing I worry about with goats is predators. You ever had any issues? How many would you bring along on a solo elk hunt?


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First time I took goats they were rented. Eastern side of the Selway. Grizzly and wolves. They were great except they called all fn night long. Wolves sounded close AF but never came in and no bears came in even though I spotted a few but they didn't jack with em. I have not personally had predator problems (like lost an animal) but at night when you hear em start moving and making noise I get up and look around. If I see eyes, I start a fire and make noise. I've also never hunted where the bears were thick AF and completely used to people. Someone else would have to talk about that. Wolves have not been a problem and I have zero concern about black bears with or without animals.

Im newest to goats so the ones I purchased are average packers Id say. 30-40 lbs is about max for them for the 6-10ish mile range. If its warm way less and way shorter, they get hot. I know people with the stud well bread pack goats do 50ish. My personal theory/ setup is 8 goats will get elk meat out and I carry all my own shit and the rack. If I cape one or packed in a bunch of creature comforts its two trips. ( I FN hate two trips so I pack camp with goats like I do when I am backpack hunting) Someone with the bad @SS goats can probably get away with 6 goats.

 

[jlw0142]

First time I took goats they were rented. Eastern side of the Selway. Grizzly and wolves. They were great except they called all fn night long. Wolves sounded close AF but never came in and no bears came in even though I spotted a few but they didn't jack with em. I have not personally had predator problems (like lost an animal) but at night when you hear em start moving and making noise I get up and look around. If I see eyes, I start a fire and make noise. I've also never hunted where the bears were thick AF and completely used to people. Someone else would have to talk about that. Wolves have not been a problem and I have zero concern about black bears with or without animals.

Im newest to goats so the ones I purchased are average packers Id say. 30-40 lbs is about max for them for the 6-10ish mile range. If its warm way less and way shorter, they get hot. I know people with the stud well bread pack goats do 50ish. My personal theory/ setup is 8 goats will get elk meat out and I carry all my own shit and the rack. If I cape one or packed in a bunch of creature comforts its two trips. ( I FN hate two trips so I pack camp with goats like I do when I am backpack hunting) Someone with the bad @SS goats can probably get away with 6 goats.

That’s awesome. This may be the new plan. Plus I can fit several in a hauler in the back of my truck rather than toting a trailer. Any issues with the restrictions about disease prevention to bighorns? Also, do you just tie them at camp during the day while you hunt?


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