The Problem With Hunting Clothing Brands Today

I think it’s just to complicated everyone wants something different even doing the same thing or same type of hunting there is no one size fits all or most. One guy likes it this way another likes it this way doing the exact same thing. Sure buttons and zippers won’t last forever but they should last a few years at 150-350 for a pair of pants. A lot of these hunting brands say lifetime warranty until you try and use it then it’s oh that’s normal or you have to read the fine print it’s lifetime if they deem it so. Take badlands there warranty says no matter what throw it down the mountain burn it in the fire etc we will fix or replace it well I had some boxers and had 7 pairs of them and everyone of them the waistband came apart after a very short time well I called them up and was told oh we can’t fix those cause the material is thin and we can’t sew it WTH.. how did you sew it to start with and then maybe you should say the warranty does not apply to thin material. Well my aunt fixed every pair with her singer sewing machine.

I don’t mind having a different set for different temps as I want comfort I own some of every company’s out there with over 50 pairs of pants and have yet to find a pair of hot weather pants that actually breath without falling apart in thick stuff. Now I buy solid colors only and look for stuff that can pull double duty if I’m spending 170 plus for a pair of pants I wanna use em for hunting and to run around town or even church and kuiu has been good for that pnuma has a nice pair as well for that not the pathfinder pants but the prevail pants love those pants but they only make one color clay. The other thing is fit so many of these places can’t keep sizing the same across the board even in the same pants every color or pattern will fit differently which is nuts and I’m not talking about if it’s an athletic fit or expedition fit just there waist size or inseam. First lite I use a 36 in most pants but if I get a 36 in there 308 they swallow me up so have to get the 34 in those. Sitka is the same way. I understand one pair of this or that can’t do everything but it dame sure needs to do what is advertised for these outrageous prices seems we get China made quality at American made prices..
 
Tbh i think the room for improvements is marginal. The giants are so big they would just copy you or buy you out if you developed anything worth while.

You never going to find a fabric they haven't already turned down using for cheaper. It sucks but there is a technical hunting gear monopoly.

It was like when stone glacier made the m5. They didn't have a new fabric invented. They at best layered the fabrics to work for what they are marketing. Sitka has some pole in fabric design but even then sitka is a drop in the bucket compared to the gore backpacking brands.
 
Argali sells quality products.
I highly doubt zipper failure would be a thing with their product line.

There's no brand of zipper that is impervious to user error -if you zip any slider up too abruptly and it seizes in the fabric and you force it out, damaging the slider or, worse, the zipper teeth in the process, then the zipper has failed. We've all done it to the best brands on the market and we'll all do it again sometime in the future.
 
And the market for western hunting is extremely small compared to the whitetail side. And that said even the guys that outfit themselves in top clothing is still a small percentage of actual western hunters.

Ive noticed alot more sales last couple years because the demand to sell out each year is getting less and less.

Stone glacier sold out at the perfect time. They peaked. Unless they expand into other industries you’re only going to sell so many frames a year when they last a decade or more.
There's no brand of zipper that is impervious to user error -if you zip any slider up too abruptly and it seizes in the fabric and you force it out, damaging the slider or, worse, the zipper teeth in the process, then the zipper has failed. We've all done it to the best brands on the market and we'll all do it again sometime in the future.

Exactly someone’s idea is only as good as the product available to make it. Next is the cost to the person willing to buy it.

Then if your popular and mass produce. Chances of quality slipping go up.
 
I’m a white tail guy but use a ton of western stuff the only time I use white tail specific stuff is when it’s real cold so the Sitka fanatic set is my go to for bowhunting in the cold. Everything else I like the western stuff. I used to say a few years ago for hot weather stuff I used Kuiu for cold I used Sitka with first lite merino base layers


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These are just hunting pants so I will try anything once you make something better I will buy them


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Tbh i think the room for improvements is marginal. The giants are so big they would just copy you or buy you out if you developed anything worth while.

You never going to find a fabric they haven't already turned down using for cheaper. It sucks but there is a technical hunting gear monopoly.

It was like when stone glacier made the m5. They didn't have a new fabric invented. They at best layered the fabrics to work for what they are marketing. Sitka has some pole in fabric design but even then sitka is a drop in the bucket compared to the gore backpacking brands.
You could say the same thing about any product in the outdoor space. The subtlty of any product is what makes it a good product or a great product. It's the small details and subtle differences that make something exceptional.

And there is a lot that goes into the choices companies make for what fabric to use, and there are nearly endless options out there. Cost is usually one of the predominant driving factors for most companies. There are new fabrics, new technologies developing all the time. If the big players had figured it all out, we wouldn't exist as a company, nor would most of the smaller hunting industry companies.
 
I’m a white tail guy but use a ton of western stuff the only time I use white tail specific stuff is when it’s real cold so the Sitka fanatic set is my go to for bowhunting in the cold. Everything else I like the western stuff. I used to say a few years ago for hot weather stuff I used Kuiu for cold I used Sitka with first lite merino base layers


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I used the fanatic setup in OK for whitetails last December and it was fantastic.
 
There's no brand of zipper that is impervious to user error -if you zip any slider up too abruptly and it seizes in the fabric and you force it out, damaging the slider or, worse, the zipper teeth in the process, then the zipper has failed. We've all done it to the best brands on the market and we'll all do it again sometime in the future.
This is true. We don't manufacture the zippers, and they all have a shelf life.
 
You are not wrong. Button was a poor reference. Those can easily be sewed on.

Argali sells quality products.
I highly doubt zipper failure would be a thing with their product line.

Marketing, build an insanely durable product, that you know will rarely fail, and build that guarantee in your product line. Maybe not VIP as Vortex but a reasonable time frame that is better than industry standard. That will sell product. I'm not referring to holes/tears from routine use.

This is what I would find important in a hunting apparel product line that already checked all the boxes I'm looking for. If I'm looking at FL, Sitka, KUIU, assuming they all fit well with a similar price point etc., I will buy the brand which backs their product. I would not be surprised if Argali fits this profile based on my experience with the owner.

I'm sure Brad will knock it out of the park.
I appreciate your confidence. We definitely stand behind our products. Zippers unfortunately all have a shelf life though.
 
I didn't read all the replies. I saw a lot of fit comments though and I agree with wanting clothing that fits. I think the issue is consistency. I want a sizing chart that is accurate and I want to know what I'm getting. Then it's durability.
 
Well, I think for me it’s gotta be clothing that’s not being marked up to ridiculous prices. You can’t tell me the stuff First Lite has made in China even costs 1/10th of what they charge…. I believe Levi Morgan hinted at this recently in a video when he mentioned moving to Element which is a brand I actually like a lot… fair prices, simple catalog. It reminds me of FL before Meateater bought it. We don’t need 45 different pant and shirt options with a lot of fit options.
 
I didn’t read every reply so maybe I’m just repetitive. I think the market has room for new pants. Similar to the Fjallraven Vidda Pros but with vents and less pockets, and solid colors. The Sitka timberlines used to be good but they don’t have vents and I don’t like the waistband.

Really Rab, black diamond, and outdoor research already make really good mountain clothing, especially tops. But I’d buy from a hunting brand if at all possible.
 
You have a problem my man!!

Yeah that’s a fact the search for that one pair of hot weather pants that has it all continues lol I will say I use the pants for everything hunting everyday church work and even went to a wedding in some of them. I’m not a suit type of guy the only tie I ever wore was when I got married and my nanny’s funeral. When my dad past I knew better to have on a tie he would come back from the dead to haunt me as he also hated to dress up..


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I think most of us are all getting tired of the marketing machines pushing out new skus every day it feels like. It’s like they’re trying to be everything to everyone, but in the process they’ve stopped being the best at anything. Sometimes I’ve talked to some of the customer service people from these companies and you just know they truly are not out there getting after it in the mountains with the products. Then they’re chasing so many different product lines which is fine, but it’s not why most of us are here.

I think Argali could be in a good spot to produce here because most people have come to know your guys’ stuff is made by real people who will utilize the gear in its intended use case. We also know they're real products so I’ll be anxious to see what is developed. Not just rebranding some alibaba or cheap garbage that a name gets slapped on and pushed by 20+ influencers as “game changers” & “revolutionary technology”

Personally, I care way more about fabric, fit, and actual field performance than the latest gimmick or fancy feature list. I think we’ve seen from some companies that do it right in the outdoor space, that a focus on the product goes a very long way. With a product like clothing, sizing introduces lots of skus to a brand. And companies coming out with 6 mid layers that all perform fairly similarly just gets out of hand. As with most gear and systems there is beauty in the simplicity. For me a layering system can be boiled down pretty simply Aug-Nov in the west across a variety of conditions.

Baselayer Top: Very lightweight and moves moisture (I prefer synthetic personally)
Baselayer Bottom: zip off grid fleece or heavyweight merino
Pant Outer: Stretch nylon with hip vents. Breathe-able and lightweight
Midlayer: active insulation, hard to beat some of the newer primaloft that’s come out.
Static insulation and rain shells are fairly simple and straightforward.

That’s ideal for me with many high output deer and elk hunts covering ground with the ability to supplement layers for periods of being stationary and maintaining heat.

I’ll be excited to see what’s to come. Cheers.
 
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