The Problem With Hunting Clothing Brands Today

[Oregonhuntrboi]

Offer solid colors
Built in America if possible
Good customer service
Items that actually stay in stock
Simple easy to follow product descriptions with accurate weights and ratings for intended uses. Excited to see what you come with! I like many others are excited about the collab with the exo and OV guys.

 

[Mtndawger]

Don’t make your business model reliant on sale pricing to get the volume you need to exist. Set retail pricing @ reasonable starting points. Seems like these other companies create a monster and basically train consumers to wait for the sale unless they are too impatient to wait. For me, over $150 for pants that I am going to thrash in a couple years ( and in many cases a year) of hunting makes no sense. OTOH if they last me 5 years or more that’s a great product for a justifiable price. $500 down jackets and the like?? Don’t get me started. But I am probably an outlier. It’s just plain stupid from a consumer pov. Zippers are definitely wear items but starting out with durability in mind over lightest weight is important. I have a 13 year old NEMO expedition tent that they don’t even make anymore yet they warrantied the zippers for the second time last spring. I am a multi sport/activity user with all my gear. Hunting, skiing, backpacking etc use all the same gear. Fit and function is most important. Then durability. Maybe do some market survey regarding pricing expectations relative to product performance. Also, so many different body types and fit preferences seems like a huge challenge to overcome. But as others have said consistency from product to product is really important.

Edit: QUIET fabrics

 

[Brad@Argali]

I didn’t read every reply so maybe I’m just repetitive. I think the market has room for new pants. Similar to the Fjallraven Vidda Pros but with vents and less pockets, and solid colors. The Sitka timberlines used to be good but they don’t have vents and I don’t like the waistband.

Really Rab, black diamond, and outdoor research already make really good mountain clothing, especially tops. But I’d buy from a hunting brand if at all possible.

I agree on the pants.

 

[cwitt]

I think sticking to what you’ve outlined already, keeping true to those core values, and cherry picking what works and didn’t work from brands in the industry and outside of it would be a really good recipe for success.

Some of the things that would be appealing to me:
1. Commitment to using the very best materials. Bonus for explaining why a choice was made over other options. Not just saying trust us. I enjoyed what you did with your why behind not using treated down in the sleeping bags.
2. A simple line up of pieces that are no frills, functional designs tailored to western/mountain hunting. Like early SG.
3. Transparency and commitment to customer service. Like EXO and what you’re already doing with Argali.

Things that aren’t important to me:
1. Being American made. We should all understand by now why that just won’t work, particularly in clothing. Like Origin. Just clearly communicating with the consumer about the where, why, and how they benefit is enough.
2. Camo pattern/solid colors as long as they don’t suck..
3. Price, within reason. Just so long as that higher price translates to a higher quality product. Like Kuiu’s original intent with being direct to consumer. Everyone on this forum uses top of the line products and pays a lot for them. We are happy to if they’re worth it. I’d think we are the core of the market you’d plan to serve or this wouldn’t be a thread.


And for the love of God, please no influencer campaigns.

 

[doverpack12]

Performance is absolute paramount. The feature set will be a function of performance. Durability will be a function of performance.
Fit will be a function of performance and is going to be the most difficult aspect.

First Lite has never fit me from day one. Legs too skinny, socks/gaiters too small, tops are too short with way too big of a waist.

I buy alot of new items to try that seem like they might solve gaps or problems for me. Most get sold but some do truly perform. I quickly buy a couple spares before something changes.

Price is relevant but if the performance is there let the price be what it has to be.

I’ll certainly buy your clothing and give it a try. Simply based on how the rest of your products started, were developed and have performed or evolved through the years. Keep it up we are behind you Brad@Argali.

 

[TheTone]

Seeing Sitka announce prices are going up today due to tariffs. Tons of unhappy comments on their socials about it. I can't help but think if they had a more streamlined product line and weren’t giving away so much gear and paying for so many sponsored hunts/videos they wouldn’t need to charge consumers as much as they do. It’s really hard on the giveaway side when you see the sponsored hunters turn around and sell the stuff they were given

 

[wapitibob]

There's no brand of zipper that is impervious to user error -if you zip any slider up too abruptly and it seizes in the fabric and you force it out, damaging the slider or, worse, the zipper teeth in the process, then the zipper has failed. We've all done it to the best brands on the market and we'll all do it again sometime in the future.

Rugged Threads, 5 minutes from my house and the OEM zipper repair shop for multiple outdoor brands.

 

[billysmals]

This is a really fantastic thread. I think most have covered the idea of (in some order) : Fit, Function, durability, and fabrics. I agree with all of that. I won't disagree with anyone's experiences or decisions that have led them to purchase the gear they use.

For me I prefer a hunting minded company, almost every time because of my experiences and that's why FIT, Function, Durability are my priorities. I hope that the hunting company is designing products for my use.

My background is a pure western hunter, lived in PNW (Oregon) for a long time (in AZ now). I grew up in Alaska though, and lived there for 20 years. My Alaska roots and PNW life has taught me that an "outdoor" company doesn't always translate to hunting applications. As a western hunter I "hike" but it isn't the same "hiking" the recreational hiker will do on their well groomed trail or defined campsites at the end of the 2mile leg on their hike. Those rec hikers have boots I would never wear, and packs that quite frankly suck for animal hauling or aren't designed for gear used for hunting (tripods, spotters, bino's, guns, bows, ect....). My point is, I don't always have an option to divert to some outdoor gear company, for my needs. I will always first look a hunting company and then move on to something else. This isn't to say that outdoor companies can't make a good piece of equipment/clothing that will work for hunting, but it's not going to be their explicit intent. I find a lot of the "outdoor gear" companies clothing options lacking for my needs. It's often loud, heavy, or not designed for brush busting off trail. YMMV.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I'm already a happy Argali customer, so the costumer service and sourcing quality materials aspect is covered. I live in the PNW and do a ton of spring hiking and a fair bit of fall backpack hunting, and feel like I have mine and my wife's clothing systems pretty well dialed in by now. I know everyone is anti-hunting brand in this thread and I'll probably get roasted for this, but I'm a shameless Kuiu supporter. If you can meet or exceed the fit/function/performance/quality of their gear that I've experienced, at a similar cost, I would definitely invest in Argali clothing.

 

[Brad@Argali]

Don’t make your business model reliant on sale pricing to get the volume you need to exist. Set retail pricing @ reasonable starting points. Seems like these other companies create a monster and basically train consumers to wait for the sale unless they are too impatient to wait. For me, over $150 for pants that I am going to thrash in a couple years ( and in many cases a year) of hunting makes no sense. OTOH if they last me 5 years or more that’s a great product for a justifiable price. $500 down jackets and the like?? Don’t get me started. But I am probably an outlier. It’s just plain stupid from a consumer pov. Zippers are definitely wear items but starting out with durability in mind over lightest weight is important. I have a 13 year old NEMO expedition tent that they don’t even make anymore yet they warrantied the zippers for the second time last spring. I am a multi sport/activity user with all my gear. Hunting, skiing, backpacking etc use all the same gear. Fit and function is most important. Then durability. Maybe do some market survey regarding pricing expectations relative to product performance. Also, so many different body types and fit preferences seems like a huge challenge to overcome. But as others have said consistency from product to product is really important.

Edit: QUIET fabrics

Quiet is paramount to me personally. And we don't do sales now, and don't plan to in the future. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[Brad@Argali]

Performance is absolute paramount. The feature set will be a function of performance. Durability will be a function of performance.
Fit will be a function of performance and is going to be the most difficult aspect.

First Lite has never fit me from day one. Legs too skinny, socks/gaiters too small, tops are too short with way too big of a waist.

I buy alot of new items to try that seem like they might solve gaps or problems for me. Most get sold but some do truly perform. I quickly buy a couple spares before something changes.

Price is relevant but if the performance is there let the price be what it has to be.

I’ll certainly buy your clothing and give it a try. Simply based on how the rest of your products started, were developed and have performed or evolved through the years. Keep it up we are behind you Brad@Argali.

Appreciate the feedback. I agree with all of that.

 

[Brad@Argali]

I think sticking to what you’ve outlined already, keeping true to those core values, and cherry picking what works and didn’t work from brands in the industry and outside of it would be a really good recipe for success.

Some of the things that would be appealing to me:
1. Commitment to using the very best materials. Bonus for explaining why a choice was made over other options. Not just saying trust us. I enjoyed what you did with your why behind not using treated down in the sleeping bags.
2. A simple line up of pieces that are no frills, functional designs tailored to western/mountain hunting. Like early SG.
3. Transparency and commitment to customer service. Like EXO and what you’re already doing with Argali.

Things that aren’t important to me:
1. Being American made. We should all understand by now why that just won’t work, particularly in clothing. Like Origin. Just clearly communicating with the consumer about the where, why, and how they benefit is enough.
2. Camo pattern/solid colors as long as they don’t suck..
3. Price, within reason. Just so long as that higher price translates to a higher quality product. Like Kuiu’s original intent with being direct to consumer. Everyone on this forum uses top of the line products and pays a lot for them. We are happy to if they’re worth it. I’d think we are the core of the market you’d plan to serve or this wouldn’t be a thread.


And for the love of God, please no influencer campaigns.

Great points. A few thoughts:

1) Our approach to materials will be the same as we always do. Only pick what we think is the best, and use it for a reason(s) and communicate the why. Great to hear that is appreciated.

2) Customer service has and always will be one of our core values. Not just when it's convenient, but when it isn't. That won't change.

3) Your point about American made is an interesting one and I appreciate your take. I've been watching people skewer Sitka for announcing they are raising their prices due to tariffs. I don't have a dog in that fight, but a lot of people are mad they don't just move production to the U.S. Anyone who says that a) clothing is better made in America and/or b) just move production to America (for clothing), hasn't ever tried to do it with their own money, and doesn't understand that it takes years to do even if it makes financial sense. There are so many reasons why there are better places to sew clothing than the US, but largely it has to do with us not having a labor force that wants to sew 40+ hours a week. And, let's be honest, there is a reason ALL of the best mountaineering, climbing and hunting brands are not made here. You can do smaller scale operations here, but having talked with some of the top US clothing manufacturers, they will tell you they cannot handle large volumes, and once you hit a certain size your best bet is to go overseas. Anyway, that's a diatribe, but I appreciate your point about honesty and transparency, which we have always done and will always do.

4) Influencers: we don't pay influences to tell you how to think

 

[Brad@Argali]

This is a really fantastic thread. I think most have covered the idea of (in some order) : Fit, Function, durability, and fabrics. I agree with all of that. I won't disagree with anyone's experiences or decisions that have led them to purchase the gear they use.

For me I prefer a hunting minded company, almost every time because of my experiences and that's why FIT, Function, Durability are my priorities. I hope that the hunting company is designing products for my use.

My background is a pure western hunter, lived in PNW (Oregon) for a long time (in AZ now). I grew up in Alaska though, and lived there for 20 years. My Alaska roots and PNW life has taught me that an "outdoor" company doesn't always translate to hunting applications. As a western hunter I "hike" but it isn't the same "hiking" the recreational hiker will do on their well groomed trail or defined campsites at the end of the 2mile leg on their hike. Those rec hikers have boots I would never wear, and packs that quite frankly suck for animal hauling or aren't designed for gear used for hunting (tripods, spotters, bino's, guns, bows, ect....). My point is, I don't always have an option to divert to some outdoor gear company, for my needs. I will always first look a hunting company and then move on to something else. This isn't to say that outdoor companies can't make a good piece of equipment/clothing that will work for hunting, but it's not going to be their explicit intent. I find a lot of the "outdoor gear" companies clothing options lacking for my needs. It's often loud, heavy, or not designed for brush busting off trail. YMMV.

Great feedback. Thank you.

 

[Ho5tile1]

Great points. A few thoughts:

1) Our approach to materials will be the same as we always do. Only pick what we think is the best, and use it for a reason(s) and communicate the why. Great to hear that is appreciated.

2) Customer service has and always will be one of our core values. Not just when it's convenient, but when it isn't. That won't change.

3) Your point about American made is an interesting one and I appreciate your take. I've been watching people skewer Sitka for announcing they are raising their prices due to tariffs. I don't have a dog in that fight, but a lot of people are mad they don't just move production to the U.S. Anyone who says that a) clothing is better made in America and/or b) just move production to America (for clothing), hasn't ever tried to do it with their own money, and doesn't understand that it takes years to do even if it makes financial sense. There are so many reasons why there are better places to sew clothing than the US, but largely it has to do with us not having a labor force that wants to sew 40+ hours a week. And, let's be honest, there is a reason ALL of the best mountaineering, climbing and hunting brands are not made here. You can do smaller scale operations here, but having talked with some of the top US clothing manufacturers, they will tell you they cannot handle large volumes, and once you hit a certain size your best bet is to go overseas. Anyway, that's a diatribe, but I appreciate your point about honesty and transparency, which we have always done and will always do.

4) Influencers: we don't pay influences to tell you how to think

What do you say about FORLOH who is all American from fabrics to labor it’s all sourced here in the good ol US of A


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[Brad@Argali]

What do you say about FORLOH who is all American from fabrics to labor it’s all sourced here in the good ol US of A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm rooting for them and wish them all the best. When we started making game bags I was 100% comitted to never leaving the US. Then we hit a certain size, and the quality control became a serious problem and we moved out of necessity.

I said what I meant in that the US is not the best in manufacturing certain things, but particularly some soft goods. We do a lot of things incredibly well in the US, some things we are the best at, and others we are not. We make our knives and some other products here and always will. I don't know anything about their operations or their business so I don't have an opinion on them one way or the other. What I do know is that every US clothing manufacturer I have talked to (because I have looked into it), has said the exact same thing, which is that the U.S. does not have the labor force to manufacture clothing at scale, and at the same quality, as places like Vietnam. Remember, these are people that own clothing sewing companies. So you either build a brand based on an American made story and hope you never have to leave, or you focus on quality from the start and look for factories that have the best repuation for quality and quality control, IMO.

Not to mention, the best techincal fabrics in the world do not come from the U.S. Again, just the facts. The best textile mills in the world are in Taiwan, Korea, and Japan. If we wanted to bring clothing manufacturing back here, we would need to start by bringing the high end textile manufacturing back here. So, if you want the best products, made from the best materials, it is very difficult to do it here.

Genuine question: Why is making clothing in the U.S. is important, especially when the best manufacturing facilities are not here? Is it the sewing jobs? Not a snarky question, genuinely curious for thoughts and opinions.

 

[steelheadmike]

I've evolved quite a bit in my view of hunting clothing. I could go outfit myself at Costco and it would probably cover 90% of the hunting I do. Don't get me wrong, I have a pretty decent stash of Kuiu at home, albeit mostly merino and fleece midlayers.

I'm down to only one pair of "hunting pants". Everything else is either the wrangler pants or whatever nylon blend pant is on sale at costco. For warm weather, I've gone to cheap earth tone sun hoodies (light and dry fast unlike merino).

The cheap stuff seems to work just fine and I'm a whole lot happier destroying a $25 pair of pants than a $175 pair.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

I think some people are under some idea that made in america just means better, when it clearly isnt the case. It is alright that pther parts of the world do things better. We dont compare american wine and italian wine and say all wine must be made in america, same for a lot of hunting goods like optics and boots, made in america is just not always the best.

I am a fan of build the best for your targeted audience and let them know, i.e. transparency.

I have no problem buying a japanese made spotter, a pair of german made boots, and clothes made in vietnam. I do however have problems with buying chinese made stuff…i do it, but it maddens me since they are kinda our enemy. But some stuff it is just hard to not buy chinese because that is all there is.

I hardly think chinese and quality clothing are synonymous though.

 

[insanelupus]

Function, performance, fit, and reasonable pricing, all important.

I hunt several weeks on end every year, plus weekends.

I want to own more than 1 pair of trousers and shirts to hunt in as I prefer to launder them. And I'm likely going to not be easy on them. I refuse to pay $150-$200 per pair of trousers.

And I still prefer camo. I'm not mad at those that like solids, but I prefer camo.

Frankly, I think of Wrangler would sell their performance pant in camo for $30 a pair, a great many, myself included, would buy 3-5 pair and not look back.

The trick with clothing is cut and fit in my opinion. So many body types and sizes, with so many SKUs, it would be tough to keep everything stocked to appeal to the broad market with a direct to consumer model. Unless there was a lot of capital for inventory on the front end.

Companies have made it work, but unless they're is an extreme sale, I limit those purchases to outter garments like vests, jackets, and rain gear. I'm too hard on trousers especially to invest over half a grand in 3 pair.

 

[Ho5tile1]

I’m not saying you where wrong or anything I have no idea how it works was really just wondering how they are doing it. I have some of there stuff and it’s nice stuff. Do you think as they grow they will have to move over to China? Or wherever?


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[Carr5vols]

Please dont over complicate the selection...with multiple lines for the same thing. Make the best at a reasonable price that performs from base to mid to outer to rain and we will buy.

If you go to brand x or y they have 10 items for the same thing and people get lost in the details instead of logging on buying this and this. Checking out done. You do not have to worry if this will wick and breath with that. It is all done for you if built right with few selections other than color or camo preference.