The “mobile hunting” push, vs. the lack of LW/packable whitetail clothing and equipment?

[Macintosh]

It seems like this comes up fairly frequently here, but with the Whitetail Industrial Complex pushing mobile hunting for the last several years, including saddle hunting, one sticking, ultra lightweight tree stands, and public land…apart from the saddles and stands themselves and a very few cottage companies, why does there seem to be such a lack of lightweight and packable whitetail-specific clothing and equipment that is actually designed for a stand hunter that carries it around a couple miles+ at a go?

I’m thinking of Whitetail-specific backpacks, almost none of which are designed to pack a deer, let alone enough gear for a cold hang-and-hunt in the late season. I’m also referring to Whitetail-specific clothing, all of which is extremely heavy and unbelievably bulky in comparison to Lightweight backpacking or western hunting gear. I’m well aware that quiet fabrics are generally heavier and thicker, and that western-focused gear and backpacking equipment is crinkly and loud. BUT, there are better options that strike a balance, and there seems to be zero development in this direction.

So, do you think I am wrong in my assessment? That there is actually plenty of lightweight packable Whitetail-specific gear, or gear that crosses over very well into Whitetail stand hunting, and is both lightweight and packable, while being quiet?

Or, do you think this is only a marketing push, and there simply isn’t enough people who are truly packing their gear (ie “being mobile”) to need this stuff?
Or is “mobile” only a phenomenon where people are moving, they’re just moving extremely short distances that don’t really require lightweight or packable equipment?

Or is it companies that are just out of touch with what people are doing?

Myself, I find myself gravitating to niche gear, some of which has been discontinued by the manufacturer apparently because they don’t sell enough of it to make it worthwhile, and using a lot of my climbing and backpacking equipment, even though it’s clearly not ideal for my use, simply because it’s so much lighter and more packable. My whitetail-specific gear I’ve generally found to be entirely inferior for my uses because its almost universally heavier and bulkier.

I’m curious if other folks also see this, or if you have a different take on it?

 

[eaglemountainman]

I'm 68 y/o. I've never fallen in line with the Whitetail Industrial Complex's, (I wasn't even aware that there was such a thing. I'm so out of touch), push for the latest fads in their never ending efforts to sell more product to gullible consumers.
What I do is, I check the weather the night before. Then, I dress appropriately...light for warm, wool for cold. My only criteria is that it be quiet. Then I stick a few extra shells in my pocket along with a knife and my drag, and I go hunting. Believe it or not I've been pretty successful.

 

[Cedarsavage]

Yeah. I live in upper Michigan and mobile hunt a lot. It’s pretty hard to pack enough gear to stay warm and stand/sticks. This year I’m gonna do a lot more ground hunting to save on bulk, that’s the best I can come up with

 

[Maverick1]

I’m thinking of Whitetail-specific backpacks, almost none of which are designed to pack a deer, let alone enough gear for a cold hang-and-hunt in the late season. I’m also referring to Whitetail-specific clothing, all of which is extremely heavy and unbelievably bulky in comparison to Lightweight backpacking or western hunting gear. I’m well aware that quiet fabrics are generally heavier and thicker, and that western-focused gear and backpacking equipment is crinkly and loud. BUT, there are better options that strike a balance, and there seems to be zero development in this direction.

What is the difference between a backpack designed to pack a deer versus any other animal? (Elk, bear, antelope).

Extremely cold weather = warm clothes. Warm clothes = heavy, bulky, quiet clothes (synthetic insulation) OR = lighter, less bulky, noisy clothes (down insulation, synthetic fabric face). Plenty of "non-hunting" brands out there.

Which series of lightweight backpacking or western hunting gear is suitable for extremely cold weather?

One does not have to wear "hunting" clothes manufactured by "hunting" companies to successfully or comfortably hunt.
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[Macintosh]

What is the difference between a backpack designed to pack a deer versus any other animal? (Elk, bear, antelope).

Extremely cold weather = warm clothes. Warm clothes = heavy, bulky, quiet clothes (synthetic insulation) OR = lighter, less bulky, noisy clothes (down insulation, synthetic fabric face). Plenty of "non-hunting" brands out there.

Which series of lightweight backpacking or western hunting gear is suitable for extremely cold weather?

One does not have to wear "hunting" clothes manufactured by "hunting" companies to successfully or comfortably hunt.
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this is a question of marketing as much as it is of product. Look at the hunting companies talking about mobile hunting or hang and hunt style hunting, and promoting tree stand whitetail hunting on public land. They talk about light weight, low packing volume, longer approaches, etc. Then look at what they recommend for equipment when you shop and sort by “whitetail”. What you get is napsack-sized backpacks that are almost exclusively too small to even pack that companies own apparel, virtually none (I think none) of them are able to carry ANY animal, let alone a deer. Then look at their clothing, and you get stuff that is super heavy, way too warm to do an approach in, with zero effort made to pack it smaller so it can be carried in their little packs, and zero effort to make it lighter weight, to vent well, etc. As you pointed out I have found other solutions from non hunting companies and from companies making gear for western hunting…thats the whole point of the post, is that the companies pushing and marketing this trend are NOT making this stuff as far as I can tell, and it seems a major disconnect to me.

Extremely cold weather = warm clothes. Warm clothes = heavy, bulky, quiet clothes (synthetic insulation) OR = lighter, less bulky, noisy clothes (down insulation, synthetic fabric face). Plenty of "non-hunting" brands out there.

This is not universally true. My firstlite solitude bibs are warm and quiet, but they take up a MASSIVE amount of space in a pack, and they weigh a ton...literally they weight 4 pounds. Down insulation is just as quiet, much lighter, and insulates better weight for weight...but it pokes thru most of the soft face fabrics. Yet there are softer fabrics that are pretty down proof, yet not nearly as loud and crinkly as a hard nylon...and not a single company I am aware of mixes the softer/quieter/thinner fabrics that would be lighter and pack smaller, with down insulation that is lighter and packs way smaller, and then cuts it so it can easily be put on over a saddle or climbing harness, and markets it with those features a mobile tree stand hunter might appreciate. This is just one example.
Am I out in left field? Or do other people see this too?

 

[KyleR1985]

No one packs whitetail deer out of the woods, relatively speaking.

Think of the average whitetail hunter. They can barely pack themselves out of the woods.

If you slice the leftover hunters that have the will and the capability to do it - a large portion live in places where it’s illegal to leave a carcass in the woods.

If you take the remaining slice who can pack em, and live in places where it’s legal, you’re left with an amount of dudes who fit in a high school gymnasium. Not a market segment you want to build a backpack line around.


I pack almost every animal I kill out. I typically don’t get in a tree unless I’m 100% going to kill a deer. I just walk.


Clothes are clothes and I don’t care what they’re marketed towards.


The fact that hunters, especially whitetail hunters who walk less than half a mile to sit still in a tree all day, in relatively mild weather conditions, and usually not kill stuff, have fallen for the mobile hunting marketing is hilarious. Never gets old

 

[AlabamaMountainMan]

I share the same frustration. My solution has been mix and matching gear. Last year I bought a meat hauler/frame pack and used it to haul clothing and my climber into the NF. I have since committed to ground hunting only (and to buying a better pack) due to a staunch fear of heights, but it did work well. And with some smarter gear choices, I could have made it way lighter and easier.

There is not a great set of "white-tail" advertised gear for this that I have found, but there is plenty of crossover gear. I'll list below the system I am building out currently.

1. Pack: Mystery Ranch Metcalf (either 75L or 100L)
   1. Can be any higher-end pack that has a dedicated meat hauling shelf. I am just personally interested in the Mystery Ranch.
   2. Needs to be bigger capacity (75L or 100L) to stuff some of the beefier white-tail focused gear in
2. Lightweight Seating/Climbing
   1. In my case, I have given up on climbing due to a fear of heights, so I am switching to either the Hawke Any-Angle tree seat or a torges tree seat.
   2. Before I gave up on climbing, I was considering a saddle system or some form of lightweight climbing gear. I planned to store climbing sticks and the platform in the meat shelf.
   3. I expect to be able to haul at least part of a white-tail out along with the climbing gear or tree seats, but am also willing to make a second trip if needed.
3. Clothing:
   1. I wear 150g merino top, undies, and some merino socks + relatively thin/light pants (wrangler ATG) while hiking in and out since I am going to be sweating by the time I get where I want to be. I may even switch to shorts this year and pack in pants.
   2. Once I get where I want to be, I can throw on a fresh shirt and socks if I need to, plus whatever clothing I needed to pack in. For me in most seasons, that is a grid fleece hoodie, a soft shell jacket, and a fleece vest. If it is really cold, I have a much heavier duty jacket and bibs.
   3. The big capacity pack will give me space to pack in the bulkier gear. Since I will not have a sleep system and days of food, I am expecting it to be more than enough space. It also should not get too heavy. Last year my pack was a 40L and it was not big enough to add in the bibs and heavier duty jacket, but it did carry water, snack, lunch, rattle bag, vest, hoodie, soft shell, handmuffs, grunt tube, and kill kit. A bigger pack would hold anything else I could ever need or want.

It certainly won't be "ultralight", but it is the best I have come up with so far.
Also, it seems that most companies use "western/big-game" to mean mobile hunting and "white-tail" to mean more stationary/short distance from what I can tell. I personally just disregard anything titled "white-tail" now even thought that is the majority if what I hunt.

 

[AlabamaMountainMan]

No one packs whitetail deer out of the woods, relatively speaking.

Think of the average whitetail hunter. They can barely pack themselves out of the woods.

If you slice the leftover hunters that have the will and the capability to do it - a large portion live in places where it’s illegal to leave a carcass in the woods.

If you take the remaining slice who can pack em, and live in places where it’s legal, you’re left with an amount of dudes who fit in a high school gymnasium. Not a market segment you want to build a backpack line around.


I pack almost every animal I kill out

Great point. For whatever reason, a lot of the eastern white-tail states want you to bring an entire carcass in for inspection so you would have to literally load the entire deer into a pack instead of parting it out. One of the WMAs near me said I could cut into as many pieces as I wanted, but every piece minus guts had to come in for inspection and weigh-in.

 

[signing off]

My MO weather is not extreme usually. I found mobile hunting with hang and hunt I need less layers.
Travel in is warm enough and climbing warms me up further. As long as I can survive the low movement and body heat loss till the last moment of light , I'm okay. Tear down and hike out covers for the lack of clothing to match the after dark temps.

 

[Macintosh]

No one packs whitetail deer out of the woods, relatively speaking.

Think of the average whitetail hunter. They can barely pack themselves out of the woods.

If you slice the leftover hunters that have the will and the capability to do it - a large portion live in places where it’s illegal to leave a carcass in the woods.

If you take the remaining slice who can pack em, and live in places where it’s legal, you’re left with an amount of dudes who fit in a high school gymnasium. Not a market segment you want to build a backpack line around.


I pack almost every animal I kill out. I typically don’t get in a tree unless I’m 100% going to kill a deer. I just walk.


Clothes are clothes and I don’t care what they’re marketed towards.


The fact that hunters, especially whitetail hunters who walk less than half a mile to sit still in a tree all day, in relatively mild weather conditions, and usually not kill stuff, have fallen for the mobile hunting marketing is hilarious. Never gets old

Is it fair to say that you fit intomy category of "...Or, do you think this is only a marketing push, and there simply isn’t enough people who are truly packing their gear (ie “being mobile”) to need this stuff?" ?

For what it's worth, I recently collaborated with a few friends to get our F&W dept to clarify their regs so that we could clearly and legally pack a quartered deer out during all of our seasons--previously it had been ambiguous at best. In my research there were a solid number of eastern and midwestern states that made it explicitly legal to pack out a quartered deer and leave behind the skeleton and assortned parts, including (now) Vt, NY, NH, ME, PA and others. With the northeastern "measuring stick" being body-weight rather than antlers, I think its the rare hunter that packs them out, but I know a few people who make it a habit. I started carrying a cloth tape measure just to have body measurements that I can use for a relatively objective estimated weight.

 

[Macintosh]

I personally just disregard anything titled "white-tail" now even thought that is the majority if what I hunt.

This is exactly what I mean. Of course everyone who does this mixes and matches what works for them...out of necessity I think. My question is around why the companies that MARKET the activity, dont MAKE product designed for it...when they DO make product designed for a related but different activity.

 

[KyleR1985]

Is it fair to say that you fit intomy category of "...Or, do you think this is only a marketing push, and there simply isn’t enough people who are truly packing their gear (ie “being mobile”) to need this stuff?" ?

For what it's worth, I recently collaborated with a few friends to get our F&W dept to clarify their regs so that we could clearly and legally pack a quartered deer out during all of our seasons--previously it had been ambiguous at best. In my research there were PLENTY of eastern and midwestern states that made it explicitly legal to pack out a quartered deer and leave behind the skeleton and assortned parts, including (now) Vt, NY, NH, ME, PA and others. With the northeastern "measuring stick" being body-weight rather than antlers, I think its the rare hunter that packs them out, but I know a few people who make it a habit. I started carrying a cloth tape measure just to have body measurements that I can use for a relatively objective estimated weight.

I think there’s always a fool with money, and another fool happy to separate him from it.

No camp for me.


I pack every animal out for two reasons:

Dragging a deer is dumb. Deer carts are dumb.

And, probably more importantly - disease/nature’s intent - the answer to CWD and other diseases, and our very salient human problem of trash disposal, is most certainly not taking dead animals out of their natural environment and then placing them in landfills or the most common redneck solution of putting them in a ditch or pond on the side of the road. The diseases spread from water sources right?….. we’re idiots.




Take the bits of the critter out of the woods you intend to consume or use. Leave everything else for the other critters.




I’m grateful we have credentialed experts managing resources in this country. I’d be more grateful if we also had folks with common sense, critical thinking skills, and statistical analysis capabilities working along side them to craft policy.

 

[Lowg08]

I agree to a point. I pack deer out have been for years and have been using an ultra light tree stand set or chair. Packing deer out in my neck of the woods is kinda taboo. My dad still ain’t a fan of it but I detest dragging one. I do wish for lighter packable clothing. I have found that most western clothes, pants, midlayers have zero cross over issues. It’s the bibs and jacket. Sitka has the areolite incinerator and SKRE has the guardian. I will be using one of the two this year. I have tried the lower end pack that are smaller but there is no substitute for a good frame pack for any weight. The places I hunt in WNC just don’t make sense to drag. I’d like to see some quieter puffy stuff but it’s more of a niche market. The pictures below are how I access one spot

 

[SirChooCH]

There's a lot of reasons for this but some companies are expanding into what you are talking about. IE Latitude and Tethrd selling backpacks for saddle hunting. Asio partnering with others for whitetail specific clothing.

1.) 90% of deer killed in the midwest are killed on private land. Most of that is from pre set stands, box blinds, etc. So "mobile hunting" is a niche within the public land hunting niche to make it even smaller of a market.

2.) Companies that know how to design and fab metal for a tree stand or saddle platform and sticks do not have the same knowledge or machines someone who specializes in fabrics and clothing does. So they leave that to someone else to figure out and focus what they know.

3.) Clothes are clothes. Doesn't matter if its Sitka/FL/KUIU etc the basics of layering clothing is the same. Its already a flooded market so its hard to dive into. Asio seems to be pushing more of the mobile whitetail hunter with their marketing as you are looking for. But its basically the same puffy jacket, fleece hoody with DWR coating, packable rain jacket system as everyone else.

 

[Macintosh]

There's a lot of reasons for this but some companies are expanding into what you are talking about. IE Latitude and Tethrd selling backpacks for saddle hunting. Asio partnering with others for whitetail specific clothing.

1.) 90% of deer killed in the midwest are killed on private land. Most of that is from pre set stands, box blinds, etc. So "mobile hunting" is a niche within the public land hunting niche to make it even smaller of a market.

2.) Companies that know how to design and fab metal for a tree stand or saddle platform and sticks do not have the same knowledge or machines someone who specializes in fabrics and clothing does. So they leave that to someone else to figure out and focus what they know.

3.) Clothes are clothes. Doesn't matter if its Sitka/FL/KUIU etc the basics of layering clothing is the same. Its already a flooded market so its hard to dive into. Asio seems to be pushing more of the mobile whitetail hunter with their marketing as you are looking for. But its basically the same puffy jacket, fleece hoody with DWR coating, packable rain jacket system as everyone else.

Makes perfect sense, although companies like tethrd and lattitude fit squarely into what I'm talking about. Thethrd's one pack is 16 liters, 1000cuin. That is barely big enough to put a pair of whitetail bibs in, let alone a jacket and bibs that are too heavy to wear, plus anything else you might want. Lattitude is better, but their "big" pack is 22l, only a little bigger. Neither pack is big enough to carry whitetail warm gear, let alone gear and the deer itself. This is precisely the phenomenon I'm talking about...here are two of the companies most heavily focused on mobile treestand hunting, and yet an actual mobile treestand hunter isnt realistically using their packs, at least not in the weather I would need to deal with. I think you are spot-on in your first point...whitetail hunting as done by "most people" it simply isnt possible to be truly mobile, becasue people are dealing with tiny properties, so "mobile hunting" just isnt a thing enough to be a "market".

Maybe a better question is, if a company actually did make packs and apparel that was pretty good for whitetail treestand hunting, but it had an emphasis on light weight and good packability and truly being mobile, ie covering multiple miles being the norm...would you buy it, assuming it came with a premium price tag over what's currently available for "non-mobile" whitetail hunting?

 

[KyleR1985]

clothing to sit still in sub freezing temperatures is bulky.

Nothing changes that.


Why does everyone want to shove bulky clothes inside of a pack? Strap them to it.


You don’t need a pack big enough to shove a sleeping bag in. Just strap it to the outside.


Another one that grinds my gears on whitetail tree stand huntjng packs. What do you need compartments or storage for? You’re sitting in a tree for a few hours. You need a grunt call(maybe), a sandwich, a bottle of water, and a thermacel. 3 of the 4 fit in cargo pockets.

 

[98XJRC]

I completely understand what your saying and finding the balance is challenging. Add into that when I'm more space conscious is when I am doing a backpack hunt and need to carry in camp to setup a basecamp plus my normal hunting setup. I've found that I can get by with a standard puffy once in the tree. Movement is slowed down anyways once I'm up so the noise from the fabric is very minimal. I use my Exo K4 5,000 for pretty much everything. If I dont need the bag space I'll cinch it down but it's there when and if needed.

I'm going to experiment this year with using a compression sack with my typical cold weather gear of Kryptek Njord pants and jacket. Combined they weight 5 lbs, but they do an excellent job of keeping me warm when doing all day sits during the rut and late season. I'm hoping I can get them compressed down enough that the space difference isn't over bearing.

Quartering up a whitetail in the woods is still something most people don't do because they aren't far from a road or can get a vehicle right to it. I'm one of the smaller percent that enjoy going further back and at that point it's a necessity to get it out.

 

[Macintosh]

@KyleR1985 maybe it's regional? The thermacell tipped me off...bugs are pretty much a memory before our hunting season even opens here. I routinely hunt in sub-20degree F weather, and I routinely carry a saddle and sticks and clothing 2+ miles each way to get to where I'm going to hunt.We often get snow beginning in late october or early november, so anything strapped to the outside of a pack can quickly get soaking wet as you push thru brush and conifers. I dont carry bulky whitetail clothing, I carry a mix of lighter-weight WT clothing and lightweight backpacking and western hunting apparel, becasue I can be just as warm while carrying half or less than half the weight and bulk. My backpacking/western hunting jacket and pants take up half the space and weigh less than half as much as my white-tail specific bibs-only...and they are just as warm. I'm north of 50 so when also carrying my other gear those several pounds saved make a difference to me. As a rule I will not plan to strap stuff to the outside of my pack either--I've been wet and and cold one time too many to plan on making that mistake again. So while I disagree with your statement, it may be exactly the reason I dont see some of what I want, becasue so many people are just in a different climate.

totally agree on the pack compartments, storage, etc. Having worked for a pack manufacturer I know pockets and "dedicated storage solutions" (eyeroll) sell...but I generally cant stand them, they simply add weight and bulk and most of the time they arent even well thought out or useful.

 

[satchamo]

Not to derail the thread, but this whole use of the term “mobile hunting” for whitetail hunting is the most obnoxious fad in the sport since face paint. I’m not old but I’m old enough to tell you we’ve always used climbers and moved around and so has everyone else under the sun.

So I guess from my perspective is what are you doing in walking in the woods and climbing a tree that demands special use clothing?

 

[Macintosh]

totally. It's absolutely a marketing thing, and it's exactly that. My question is not about why its the best thing since sliced bread, my question is around what I perceive as a double standard, ie companies talk about "walking around with a tree stand on your back", sell a premium product that makes that lighter and warmer and more comfortable (ie saddles, carbon fiber sticks at 1lb each, etc, etc), and then turn around and sell the same old heavyweight bulky stuff... Zero argument from me that the term is ridiculous and nothing new all at the same time. I'm just wondering why we havent seen a pair of puffy pants that packs small and weighs less than 4lb, that doesnt scare deer away from 50 yards away (or at least market itself as such).

Personally I agree on the marketing thing, but at the same time I like my lightweight gear that these companies have put out...my stand and sticks is half the weight it was 15 years ago. I just think if we have to put up with the marketing BS, we might as well at least benefit from a better mousetrap in the other places I also would like to save some weight.

Also: "the most obnoxious fad in the sport since face paint" 100% true!