Suppressor purchase from Silencer Central

[5811]

You're getting warmer but still not there. You are correct that my argument is that 8 and 9 can occur PRIOR to stamp approval. However, you INCORRECT in stating that it can't be sent UNTIL the background check has been completed. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT ANYWHERE. You are reading that into the Section. Not only that, but if the transferee has a CCW(which I imagine a lot of purchasers have), it is unnecessary altogether.

Dave, if you agree that the document applies and you agree with the procedure as outlined in 8 and 9, what you are asking for is on the first page:

"Recordkeeping procedure for non-over-the-counter firearm sales by licensees to unlicensed in-state residents that are NICS exempt.

ATF Proc. 2013-2

Purpose: This ATF procedure gives guidance to licensed importers, manufacturers, and dealers (licensees) on how to record the sale of a firearm to an unlicensed person who:

a) Has a valid alternate permit or otherwise is exempt from National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) requirements;

b) Resides in the same State as the licensee; and

c) Does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises."


I have outlined the NICS exemptions numerous times, but the one that applies is:

"(2) the firearm is subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act and has been approved for transfer under 27 CFR Part 479"

A, B, and C must apply for the dealer to record the sale via 4473 by way of mailed notice to CLEO.

If you still think I am incorrect, please help me understand. Which part of this do you specifically disagree with?

 

[Dave C.]

I'm gonna say this one more time and then I'm done here. You can't simply make *hit up to try and be right which is what you are doing. Additionally, you have NOT posted the entire code section that pertains to the argument at hand. Perhaps, this is intentional or perhaps it is an oversight and may be the reason you are incorrect as you haven't read it entirely. Nowhere does it say that 4473 can't be sent PRIOR to ATF approval. It simply states that both must be done prior to transfer but the two can overlap. If for whatever reason the applicant is denied, SC is simply out the cost for postage from mailing a 4473 for a transfer that ultimately can't occur.

 

[pugwylde]

If for whatever reason the applicant is denied, SC is simply out the cost for postage from mailing a 4473 for a transfer that ultimately can't occur.

Have you paid for shipping lately?! I'd argue that's reason enough to not send anything that you aren't sure is going to stay...

Kidding aside, I didn't really think of Silencer Central as a suppressor company. They are the Amazon of suppressors, and they just happen to also make their own. If I'm accurate in that assessment, it makes the cost of shipping a really important factor in their business model.

 

[HandgunHTR]

Nowhere does it say that 4473 can't be sent PRIOR to ATF approval. It simply states that both must be done prior to transfer but the two can overlap. If for whatever reason the applicant is denied, SC is simply out the cost for postage from mailing a 4473 for a transfer that ultimately can't occur.

Are you being obtuse or are you really that dense?

The 4473 is for a transfer of a firearm from a licensee to a non-licensee. A FFL holder (licensee) cannot complete a 4473 until after you (the transferee) have been approved for the sale. When doing a firearms transfer that means either 1) the NICS background check has been completed, or 2) you are exempt from doing the background check.
Therefore, when doing a suppressor transfer, you have to complete the requirements for being exempt from the background check, which means having an approved Form 4 in hand.

Also, because it seems you are incapable of clicking a link, here is the full text of the document that was attached in post #23.

U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives
Office of the Director
_______________________________________________________________________________
Washington, DC 20226
18 U.S.C. 922(c): NON-OVER-THE-COUNTER SALES OF FIREARMS
18 U.S.C. 922(t): NICS REQUIREMENTS AND EXCEPTIONS
27 CFR 478.96: MAIL ORDER SALES OF FIREARMS (IN-STATE, NICS EXEMPT)
27 CFR 478.102: NICS REQUIREMENTS AND EXCEPTIONS
Recordkeeping procedure for non-over-the-counter firearm sales by licensees to unlicensed
in-state residents that are NICS exempt.
ATF Proc. 2013-2
Purpose: This ATF procedure gives guidance to licensed importers, manufacturers, and dealers
(licensees) on how to record the sale of a firearm to an unlicensed person who:
a) Has a valid alternate permit or otherwise is exempt from National Instant Criminal
Background Check System (NICS) requirements;
b) Resides in the same State as the licensee; and
c) Does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises.
Background: Title 18, United States Code (U.S.C.), section 922(c)(1), states that, in any case
not otherwise prohibited by 18 U.S.C. chapter 44, a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or
licensed dealer may sell a firearm to a person (other than another licensed importer,
manufacturer, or dealer) who does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises only if
the transferee submits to the transferor a sworn statement in the following form:
Subject to penalties provided by law, I swear that, in the case of any firearm other than a
shotgun or a rifle, I am twenty-one years or more of age, or that, in the case of a shotgun or
a rifle, I am eighteen years or more of age; that I am not prohibited by the provisions of
chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm in interstate or foreign
commerce; and that my receipt of this firearm will not be in violation of any statute of the
State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which I reside. Further, the true
title, name, and address of the principal law enforcement officer of the locality to which the
firearm will be delivered are ____________________________________________________.
Signature ________________________________ Date__________________



The statement must contain blank spaces to attach a true copy of any permit or other information
required pursuant to such State statute or published ordinance.
The corresponding regulation at 27 CFR 478.96(b) states, in relevant part, that a licensee may
sell a firearm that is not subject to the provisions of 478.102(a) to a nonlicensee who does not
appear in person at the licensee's business premises if the nonlicensee is a resident of the same
State in which the licensee's business premises are located, and the nonlicensee furnishes to the
licensee the firearms transaction record, Form 4473 as required by 478.124. The regulation
further requires the nonlicensee to attach to the Form 4473 a true copy of any permit or other
information required pursuant to any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to
the locality in which he/she resides.
Furthermore, 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1) and its implementing regulations at 27 CFR 478.102(a) require
a licensee to contact NICS for a background check prior to completion of a firearm transfer to an
unlicensed person, and verify the identity of that person by examining a valid identification
document. The statute at subsection 922(t)(3) and implementing regulation at subsection
478.102(d) provide exceptions to these requirements: (1) if the transferee has presented a permit
or license (“alternate permit”) that: (i) allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a
firearm; (ii) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take
place; and (iii) the law of the State provides that such a permit or license is to be issued only after
an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does
not indicate that possession of a firearm by the transferee would be in violation of Federal, State,
or local law, and includes completion of a NICS background check; (2) the firearm is subject to
the provisions of the National Firearms Act and has been approved for transfer under 27 CFR
Part 479; or (3) on application of the licensee, in accordance with 27 CFR 478.150, the ATF
Director has certified that running a NICS background check is impracticable due to the
geographical location of the licensee.
ATF recognizes that Form 4473, Part I – Over-the-Counter, does not include the sworn statement
required by 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(1), and that licensees who sell firearms subject to section 478.96(b)
requirements without that statement would not be in compliance with Federal law. For this
reason, ATF authorizes this procedure to use Form 4473, Part I, for non-over-the-counter firearm
sales by licensees to unlicensed in-state residents that are NICS exempt.
Procedure: A licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer may record and conduct the sale of a
firearm to a resident of the same state who does not appear in person at the licensed business
premises using ATF Form 4473, Part I, provided the transfer is exempt from the NICS
requirements, pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(3) and 27 CFR 478.102(d), and the procedures below
are followed:
1. The buyer must properly complete and execute Section A of ATF Form 4473, Part I, as if
the firearm was being transferred over-the-counter;
2. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(1) and 27 CFR 478.96(b), the buyer must execute and
attach to the Form 4473 a sworn statement in the format prescribed by 18 U.S.C.
922(c)(1) (set forth above), and, as applicable, a true copy signed and dated by the buyer



of the valid alternate permit that qualifies as a NICS exception, and any other
documentation required pursuant to State statute or published ordinance;
3. The buyer must send the original ATF Form 4473 and attachment(s) to the licensee. The
licensee must then complete the remaining portions of the form as if the firearm was
being transferred over-the-counter;
4. The licensee must document the applicable NICS exception in Section B of the ATF
Form 4473;
5. The licensee is permitted to omit recording identifying information (type of
identification, number on identification, expiration date of identification) in Section B.
However, if the buyer is a nonimmigrant alien, the licensee must record the type of
documentation showing an exception to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition. This
supporting documentation must be attached to the ATF Form 4473;
6. Neither the licensee nor the purchaser should complete Section C of the ATF Form 4473;
7. The licensee must complete Section D. In addition, the licensee must record the words
“Non over the counter transaction” at the top of the first page of the ATF Form 4473;
8. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(2) and 27 CFR 478.96(b), the licensee must, prior to
shipment or delivery of the firearm, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt
requested) a copy of the Form 4473, sworn statement, and valid alternate permit or other
required information to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) named on such
statement;
9. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(3) and 27 CFR 478.96(b), the licensee must delay shipment
or delivery of the firearm for at least seven days following receipt by the licensee of
either the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the Form 4473, to the CLEO,
or the return of the copy of the Form 4473 to the licensee due to refusal of the CLEO to
accept the same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations;
10. The licensee must retain the original Form 4473, Part I, sworn statement, NICS
exemption documentation, and evidence of receipt or rejection of delivery of the
information sent to the CLEO as a part of the records required to be kept by the licensee
under the provisions of 27 CFR Subpart H, including 478.129 and 478.131;
11. The licensee must record the firearms disposition in the licensee’s acquisition and
disposition record in accordance with 27 CFR 478.122, 478.123, or 478.125 (as
applicable); and
12. The licensee must report any multiple sales or other disposition of pistols or revolvers on
ATF Form 3310.4 in accordance with 27 CFR 478.126a. In addition, the licensee must
report any multiple sales or other disposition of certain rifles on ATF Form 3310.12 in
accordance with 18 U.S.C. 923(g)(5)(A), as applicable.

 

[HandgunHTR]

Additionally, here is the link to the regulation covering Firearm Transaction Record (i.e. 4473).

27 CFR § 478.124 | eRegulations

regulations.atf.gov

And because it seems that Dave isn't capable of clicking links, here is the full regulation, copied and pasted over the next two posts as there is a 10000 character limit on posts. I have highlighted the appropriate sections to help with understanding, particularly #5, which cannot be done without completing the background check (i.e. having the Form 4 in hand).

§ 478.124 Firearms transaction record.​

1. 
   
   a. A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer shall not sell or otherwise dispose, temporarily or permanently, of any firearm to any person, other than another licensee, unless the licensee records the transaction on a firearm transaction record, Form 4473: Provided, that a firearms transaction record, Form 4473, shall not be required to record the disposition made of a firearm delivered to a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or customizing when such firearm or a replacement firearm is returned to the person from whom received; provided further, that a firearms transaction record, Form 4473, shall not be used if the sale or other disposition is being made to another licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, or a curio or relic to a licensed collector, including a sole proprietor who transfers a firearm to their personal collection or otherwise as a personal firearm in accordance with § 478.125a. When a licensee transfers a firearm to another licensee, the licensee shall comply with the verification and recordkeeping requirements in § 478.94 and this subpart.
2. 
   
   b. A licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer shall retain in alphabetical (by name of purchaser), chronological (by date of disposition), or numerical (by transaction number) order, and as a part of the required records, each Form 4473 obtained in the course of transferring custody of the firearms.
3. 
   
   c.
   1. 
      
      1. Prior to making an over-the-counter transfer of a firearm to a non-licensee who is a resident of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer so transferring the firearm shall obtain a Form 4473 from the transferee showing the transferee's name, sex, residence address (including county or similar political subdivision and whether they reside within city limits), and date and place of birth; the height, weight, and race of the transferee; the transferee's country of citizenship; the transferee's DHS-issued alien number or admission number; the transferee's State of residence; certification by the transferee that the transferee is not prohibited by the Act from transporting or shipping a firearm in interstate or foreign commerce or receiving a firearm which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce or possessing a firearm in or affecting commerce; and certification that the transferee does not intend to purchase or acquire any firearm for sale or other disposition to a person so prohibited or in furtherance of any felony or other offense punishable by imprisonment for a term of more than one year, a Federal crime of terrorism, or a drug trafficking offense.
   2. 
      
      2. In order to facilitate the transfer of a firearm and enable NICS to verify the identity of the person acquiring the firearm, ATF Form 4473 also requests certain optional information. This information includes the transferee's social security number. Such information may help avoid the possibility of the transferee being misidentified as a felon or other prohibited person.
   3. 
      
      3. After the transferee has executed the Form 4473, the licensee:
      1. 
         
         i. Shall verify the identity of the transferee by examining the identification document (as defined in § 478.11) presented, and shall note on the Form 4473 the type of identification used;
      2. 
         
         ii. [Reserved]

 

[HandgunHTR]

• 1. 1. iii. Must, in the case of a transferee who is an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa who states that he or she falls within an exception to, or has a waiver from, the prohibition in section 922(g)(5)(B) of the Act, have the transferee present applicable documentation establishing the exception or waiver, note on the Form 4473 the type of documentation provided, and attach a copy of the documentation to the Form 4473; and
     2. 
        
        iv. Shall comply with the requirements of § 478.102 and record on the form the date on which the licensee contacted the NICS, as well as any response provided by the system, including any identification number provided by the system.
  2. 
     
     4. The licensee shall identify the firearm to be transferred by listing on the Form 4473 the name of the manufacturer, the name of the importer (if any), the type, model, caliber or gauge, and the serial number (including any associated license number either as a prefix, or if remanufactured or imported, separated by a semicolon) of the firearm. Where no manufacturer name has been identified on a privately made firearm, the words "privately made firearm" (or abbreviation "PMF") shall be recorded as the name of the manufacturer.
  3. 
     
     5. The licensee shall sign and date the form if the licensee does not know or have reasonable cause to believe that the transferee is disqualified by law from receiving the firearm and transfer the firearm described on the Form 4473.
• 
  
  d. Prior to making an over-the-counter transfer of a shotgun or rifle under the provisions contained in § 478.96(c) to a nonlicensee who is not a resident of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, the licensee so transferring the shotgun or rifle, and such transferee, shall comply with the requirements of paragraph (c) of this section.
• 
  
  e. Prior to making a transfer of a firearm to any nonlicensee who is not a resident of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, and such nonlicensee is acquiring the firearm by loan or rental from the licensee for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer so furnishing the firearm, and such transferee, shall comply with the provisions of paragraph (c) of this section.

 

[HandgunHTR]

• f. Form 4473 shall be submitted, in duplicate, to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer by a transferee who is purchasing or otherwise acquiring a firearm by other than an over-the-counter transaction, who is not subject to the provisions of § 478.102(a), and who is a resident of the State in which the licensee's business premises are located. The Form 4473 shall show the transferee's name, sex, residence address (including county or similar political subdivision and whether they reside within city limits), and date and place of birth; the height, weight, and race of the transferee; the transferee's country of citizenship; the transferee's DHS-issued alien number or admission number; the transferee's State of residence; and the title, name, and address of the principal law enforcement officer of the locality to which the firearm will be delivered. The transferee shall also certify on the Form 4473 that the transferee does not intend to purchase or acquire any firearm for sale or other disposition to a person so prohibited or in furtherance of any felony or other offense punishable by imprisonment for a term of more than one year, a Federal crime of terrorism, or a drug trafficking offense. The licensee shall identify the firearm to be transferred by listing in the Forms 4473 the name of the manufacturer, the name of the importer (if any), the type, model, caliber or gauge, and the serial number of the firearm to be transferred. Where no manufacturer name has been identified on a privately made firearm, the words “privately made firearm” (or abbreviation “PMF”) shall be recorded as the name of the manufacturer. The licensee shall prior to shipment or delivery of the firearm to such transferee, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt requested) a copy of the Form 4473 to the principal law enforcement officer named in the Form 4473 by the transferee, and shall delay shipment or delivery of the firearm to the transferee for a period of at least 7 days following receipt by the licensee of the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the Form 4473 to such principal law enforcement officer, or the return of the copy of the Form 4473 to the licensee due to the refusal of such principal law enforcement officer to accept same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations. The original Form 4473, and evidence of receipt or rejection of delivery of the copy of the Form 4473 sent to the principal law enforcement officer, shall be retained by the licensee as a part of the records required to be kept under this subpart.
• 
  
  g. A licensee who sells or otherwise disposes of a firearm to a nonlicensee who is other than an individual, shall obtain from the transferee the information required by this section from an individual authorized to act on behalf of the transferee. In addition, the licensee shall obtain from the individual acting on behalf of the transferee a written statement, executed under the penalties of perjury, that the firearm is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of the transferee, and showing the name and address of that transferee.
• 
  
  h. The requirements of this section shall be in addition to any other recordkeeping requirement contained in this part.
• 
  
  i. A licensee may obtain, upon request, an emergency supply of Forms 4473 from any Director of Industry Operations. For normal usage, a licensee should request a year's supply from the ATF Distribution Center (See § 478.21).

 

[thinhorn_AK]

It’s not healthy to have so much emotion and rage about silencer central, it’s just not something that happy people do…..especially for a banish 30.

 

[5811]

It’s not healthy to have so much emotion and rage about silencer central, it’s just not something that happy people do…..especially for a banish 30.

Says the guy who refuses to try to take the end cap off a banish 30 so he can complain about them at every opportunity!

 

[5811]

I've tried numerous times, and several different methods. Not sure how you could possibly think that I'm refusing to try. Posts like this speak far more to your intelligence than to mine. Have a great Friday through.

That was mostly in jest, but this is what I was referencing:



You have yourself a great Friday, as well.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

That was mostly in jest, but this is what I was referencing:

View attachment 839542

You have yourself a great Friday, as well.

Why take it apart when I can just put it on my “wife’s” gun, leave it in my truck and complain about it on rokslide???

And sorry for my rude post, I need to adjust my attitude.

 

[5811]

Why take it apart when I can just put it on my “wife’s” gun, leave it in my truck and complain about it on rokslide???

And sorry for my rude post, I need to adjust my attitude.

Haha. That's the post I was setting you up for in my mind.

I can see how what I wrote could be taken the other way. No worries.