Suppressor purchase from Silencer Central

[Dave C.]

This is futile. NOBODY does a background check when picking up a firearm. The background check is done prior. You sound like the attorneys for SC who are precisely the reason for all this BS. They misread and incorrectly interpret the sections and statutes and then "overprotect" their client by adding additional recommendations to ensure there's no question of being in trouble with ATF, even though it's entirely unnecessary.

 

[dieselchessy]

This is futile. NOBODY does a background check when picking up a firearm. The background check is done prior. You sound like the attorneys for SC who are precisely the reason for all this BS. They misread and incorrectly interpret the sections and statutes and then "overprotect" their client by adding additional recommendations to ensure there's no question of being in trouble with ATF, even though it's entirely unnecessary.

Who said anything about a background check? You fill out the 4473 for transfer documentation, they don’t do a second check after approval. Its a transfer record. Ive filled one out for every can Ive picked up from lock up after having been approved, receiving the tax stamp, ect. The FFL still has to record the transfer.

You dont do a second 4473 when picking up a firearm after a wait period because your local FFL ran the first 4473 and has it in their records.

How many suppressors have you purchased and from where?

 

[HandgunHTR]

This is futile. NOBODY does a background check when picking up a firearm. The background check is done prior. You sound like the attorneys for SC who are precisely the reason for all this BS. They misread and incorrectly interpret the sections and statutes and then "overprotect" their client by adding additional recommendations to ensure there's no question of being in trouble with ATF, even though it's entirely unnecessary.

Do you even read the responses, or are you just not capable of understanding what is being written?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Do you even read the responses, or are you just not capable of understanding what is being written?

He does this in every single thread about silencer central. The sad thing is that he has all this rage, anger and the urge to talk down to people….and in the end, not only is he wrong about what he typed…..he’s stuck with a banish suppressor….

 

[Dave C.]

Who said anything about a background check? You fill out the 4473 for transfer documentation, they don’t do a second check after approval. Its a transfer record. Ive filled one out for every can Ive picked up from lock up after having been approved, receiving the tax stamp, ect. The FFL still has to record the transfer.

You dont do a second 4473 when picking up a firearm after a wait period because your local FFL ran the first 4473 and has it in their records.

How many suppressors have you purchased and from where?

Uh, the Code section that 5811 does. Try to stay with us.

"Furthermore, 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1) and its implementing regulations at 27 CFR 478.102(a) require a licensee to contact NICS for a background check prior to completion of a firearm transfer to an unlicensed person, and verify the identity of that person by examining a valid identification document. The statute at 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(3) and implementing regulation at 27 CFR 478.102(d) provide exceptions to these requirements if: (1) the transferee has presented a valid permit or license (“alternate permit”) that: (i) allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm; (ii) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and (iii) the law of the State provides that such a permit or license is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the transferee would be in violation of Federal, State, or local law, and includes completion of a NICS background check; (2) the firearm is subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act and has been approved for transfer under 27 CFR Part 479; or (3) on application of the licensee, in accordance with 27 CFR 478.150, the ATF Director has certified that running a NICS background check is impracticable."

 

[Dave C.]

Do you even read the responses, or are you just not capable of understanding what is being written?

Yeah, I do. Which is why it's futile to argue when I'm the only one capable of reading comprehension. Sadly, most of the rest of you think that because one poster puts up a code section which he has incorrectly interpreted, you all think he's right.

 

[5811]

"Furthermore, 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1) and its implementing regulations at 27 CFR 478.102(a) require a licensee to contact NICS for a background check prior to completion of a firearm transfer to an unlicensed person, and verify the identity of that person by examining a valid identification document. The statute at 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(3) and implementing regulation at 27 CFR 478.102(d) provide exceptions to these requirements if: (1) the transferee has presented a valid permit or license (“alternate permit”) that: (i) allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm; (ii) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and (iii) the law of the State provides that such a permit or license is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the transferee would be in violation of Federal, State, or local law, and includes completion of a NICS background check; (2) the firearm is subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act and has been approved for transfer under 27 CFR Part 479; or (3) on application of the licensee, in accordance with 27 CFR 478.150, the ATF Director has certified that running a NICS background check is impracticable."

By receiving your firearm through the mail, non-over-the-counter, you are not showing ID to the licensee to complete the transfer. This is what requires a second CLEO notice that can only be done after you are approved.

This is what you do when you pick up any suppressor from any shop after it's been approved, but cannot do when it is mailed to your door.

And you just glossed over where it was posted that Capitol Armory does the exact same thing?

Zero views on the document i posted. Talk about futile.

 

[pugwylde]

My take away from this:

1. There is very little difference from one can to the next. Essentially the only debate people ever get in about brand is SC versus anything else, and the debate is always about the customer service/shipping.
2. Shipping to your door isn't really touted by anyone other than SC because it sort of sucks. They aren't doing anything special, other than dealing with the frustration, because (my guess) they are winning the volume game.
3. Dealing with FFLs is a lot less scary than it seems. But because it seems scary, people (myself included) gravitate towards the promised land of avoiding them.
4. Almost everyone's favorite suppressor brand is the one they spent $1000 and nine months waiting for, unless they had a bad customer service experience. So take every bit of feedback on the topic with a giant grain of salt.

 

[dieselchessy]

My take away from this:

1. There is very little difference from one can to the next. Essentially the only debate people ever get in about brand is SC versus anything else, and the debate is always about the customer service/shipping.
2. Shipping to your door isn't really touted by anyone other than SC because it sort of sucks. They aren't doing anything special, other than dealing with the frustration, because (my guess) they are winning the volume game.
3. Dealing with FFLs is a lot less scary than it seems. But because it seems scary, people (myself included) gravitate towards the promised land of avoiding them.
4. Almost everyone's favorite suppressor brand is the one they spent $1000 and nine months waiting for, unless they had a bad customer service experience. So take every bit of feedback on the topic with a giant grain of salt.

I dont disagree with your points, other than #1 and scary FFL’s, but would add. SC is/was the first prominent supplier offering a way for folks distant from a dealer to easily purchase a suppressor. They filled a void in the market that now has a few other players. They arent a bad way to go, if your a long way from a dealer. It just takes a little longer and a few additional steps.

Be patient.

To your point number 1. PEW science and others do testing of suppressors. There are sizable differences to include size, material, brand, price and performance.

Suppressor Sound Rankings — PEW Science

What is the quietest silencer for your suppressed firearm? The quietest suppressor for your use case is listed on this page with detailed links to the Silencer Sound Standard test data. PEW Science test data with PEW-SOFT is the most accurate suppressor test data available.

pewscience.com

 

[HandgunHTR]

Yeah, I do. Which is why it's futile to argue when I'm the only one capable of reading comprehension. Sadly, most of the rest of you think that because one poster puts up a code section which he has incorrectly interpreted, you all think he's right.

Really, you are the only one capable of reading comprehension? So, tell me, Dave, did you read the posts I quoted below? If you did, and you are still sticking by your notion that what SC does is not required, then either 1) you actually are not capable of reading comprehension, or 2) you are willfully ignorant.

'10. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(3), 27 CFR 478.96(b), and 27 CFR 478.124(f), the licensee
must delay shipment or delivery of the firearm for at least seven days following receipt by
the licensee of either the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the Form 4473
to the CLEO, or the return of the copy of the Form 4473 to the licensee due to refusal of
the CLEO to accept the same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations; "

If the notice was not delivered, the 7 days cannot start. This is not Silencer Central's fault.

Dave, he literally posted the law in post #23.

You are conflating two different things. For a non-over-the-counter purchase of a suppressor, the CLEO needs to be notified twice. The first one, notification of the Form 4, can take place at any time, and is done by everyone once the Form 4 is filled out and submitted to the ATF. The second notification is of a non-over-the-counter sale of a firearm and cannot be done until the 4473 is filled out, which isn't done until the Form 4 is approved. That one also requires a 7-day wait until the transfer can proceed (as per the law posted above).

I get it, you don't like SC. Neither do I, but please take the time to actually read through the responses, rather than just jump in with an emotional reply.

They absolutely do. I know because I just bought my last one from them.

Here is a direct copy/paste from the email I got from them when my Form 4 was approved. I have highlighted the pertinent part.

​ First, log in to your account to complete the digital ATF Form 4473. Once you are within your account, you can see your approvals and generate the ATF Form 4473 for all current approvals. Completing the ATF Form 4473 lets us ship your NFA item directly to your home.​ ​ Pay close attention to the instructions and triple-check your responses before submitting the form. Processing these documents takes a considerable amount of our staff's time, and most errors can easily be prevented by triple-checking each field and following the instructions closely. By law, we cannot assist you with filling out this form. Once you complete the form, sign it digitally, and submit it, we will notify the CLEO in your state that we are conducting a non-over-the-counter sale to you. We provide your contact information but do not include the details of your order. We are required to wait seven days from the date they receive the notice before we can ship your item. Due to the CLEO notification and seven-day waiting period, the shipping process may take 2-3 weeks from the date you complete the ATF Form 4473. Once the waiting period has expired, we will ship your item to the address on your ID/DL/LTC, and you will receive a tracking number for the shipment. We ship all items via UPS ground with adult signature required. If an adult cannot be at your residence during delivery, please coordinate with UPS a time to pick up the item or arrange for an alternate delivery address (service available through UPS for an additional fee.) See www.UPS.com for additional details.​

 

[Dave C.]

I rest my case. Y'all just proved once again that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I rest my case. Y'all just proved once again that you have no idea what you're talking about.

I think you just proved him right. You clearly don’t read/understand what people have been posting, now that people are calling you out for it, you are reporting to insults like you do in every silencer central thread. It’s really strange to be so aggressive and to act the way you do over threads about silencers.

Seriously though, people are providing evidence to back up their claims, you are just insulting people for providing that evidence. Maybe it’s time for you to take your ball and go home Dave.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I rest my case. Y'all just proved once again that you have no idea what you're talking about.

So, educate me Dave. You came here and insulted my reading comprehension ability so I am asking you to explain to me how what I posted was wrong.

 

[Dave C.]

Tell ya what, post all the regulations that you claim apply instead of bits and pieces that you are conflating, misinterpreting and making incorrect claims about and then I encourage EVERYONE to read them objectively without letting anyone sway you with their incorrect assertions. Those with the capacity to objectively evaluate the code will see that I am right. I'm done arguing with people who think they're internet experts and think that by posting irrelevant parts of the code that it makes them right.

 

[5811]

Tell ya what, post all the regulations that you claim apply instead of bits and pieces that you are conflating, misinterpreting and making incorrect claims about and then I encourage EVERYONE to read them objectively without letting anyone sway you with their incorrect assertions. Those with the capacity to objectively evaluate the code will see that I am right. I'm done arguing with people who think they're internet experts and think that by posting irrelevant parts of the code that it makes them right.

Dave, I posted the full document pdf in post 37.

Reading comprehension.......

 

[HandgunHTR]

Tell ya what, post all the regulations that you claim apply instead of bits and pieces that you are conflating, misinterpreting and making incorrect claims about and then I encourage EVERYONE to read them objectively without letting anyone sway you with their incorrect assertions. Those with the capacity to objectively evaluate the code will see that I am right. I'm done arguing with people who think they're internet experts and think that by posting irrelevant parts of the code that it makes them right.

@5811 posted the full procedure document, as he pointed out. Read it paying particular attention to #8 and #9 in the "Procedure" section.

For those that don't want to open and read the full document, I will post that section here.

8. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(2) and 27 CFR 478.96(b), the licensee must, prior to
shipment or delivery of the firearm, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt
requested) a copy of the Form 4473, sworn statement, and valid alternate permit or other
required information to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) named on such
statement;

9. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(3) and 27 CFR 478.96(b), the licensee must delay shipment
or delivery of the firearm for at least seven days following receipt by the licensee of
either the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the Form 4473, to the CLEO,
or the return of the copy of the Form 4473 to the licensee due to refusal of the CLEO to
accept the same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations;

 

[thinhorn_AK]

@5811 posted the full procedure document, as he pointed out. Read it paying particular attention to #8 and #9 in the "Procedure" section.

For those that don't want to open and read the full document, I will post that section here.

8. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(2) and 27 CFR 478.96(b), the licensee must, prior to
shipment or delivery of the firearm, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt
requested) a copy of the Form 4473, sworn statement, and valid alternate permit or other
required information to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) named on such
statement;

9. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(3) and 27 CFR 478.96(b), the licensee must delay shipment
or delivery of the firearm for at least seven days following receipt by the licensee of
either the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the Form 4473, to the CLEO,
or the return of the copy of the Form 4473 to the licensee due to refusal of the CLEO to
accept the same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations;

Right there ^^^ @Dave C.

 

[5811]

@5811 posted the full procedure document, as he pointed out. Read it paying particular attention to #8 and #9 in the "Procedure" section.

For those that don't want to open and read the full document, I will post that section here.

8. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(2) and 27 CFR 478.96(b), the licensee must, prior to
shipment or delivery of the firearm, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt
requested) a copy of the Form 4473, sworn statement, and valid alternate permit or other
required information to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) named on such
statement;

9. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(3) and 27 CFR 478.96(b), the licensee must delay shipment
or delivery of the firearm for at least seven days following receipt by the licensee of
either the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the Form 4473, to the CLEO,
or the return of the copy of the Form 4473 to the licensee due to refusal of the CLEO to
accept the same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations;

Dave's argument is that they can do 8 and 9 prior to stamp approval.

I think the pertaining language to Dave's argument is on of page 2, where it states the NICS exceptions that allow for an ATF Form 4473 Part 1 for non-over-the-counter sales.

18 U.S.C. 922(c): NON-OVER-THE-COUNTER SALES OF FIREARMS

18 U.S.C. 922(t): NICS REQUIREMENTS AND EXCEPTIONS

27 CFR 478.96: MAIL ORDER SALES OF FIREARMS (IN-STATE, NICS EXEMPT)

27 CFR 478.102: NICS REQUIREMENTS AND EXCEPTIONS

"The corresponding regulation at 27 CFR 478.96(b) states, in relevant part, that a licensee may
sell a firearm that is not subject to the provisions of 478.102(a) to a nonlicensee who does not
appear in person at the licensee's business premises if the nonlicensee is a resident of the same
State in which the licensee's business premises are located, and the nonlicensee furnishes to the
licensee the firearms transaction record, Form 4473 as required by 478.124. The regulation
further requires the nonlicensee to attach to the Form 4473 a true copy of any permit or other
information required pursuant to any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to
the locality in which he/she resides.

Furthermore, 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1) and its implementing regulations at 27 CFR 478.102(a) require
a licensee to contact NICS for a background check prior to completion of a firearm transfer to an
unlicensed person, and verify the identity of that person by examining a valid identification
document. The statute at subsection 922(t)(3) and implementing regulation at subsection
478.102(d) provide exceptions to these requirements: (1) if the transferee has presented a permit
or license (“alternate permit”) that: (i) allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a
firearm; (ii) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take
place; and (iii) the law of the State provides that such a permit or license is to be issued only after
an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does
not indicate that possession of a firearm by the transferee would be in violation of Federal, State,
or local law, and includes completion of a NICS background check; (2) the firearm is subject to
the provisions of the National Firearms Act and has been approved for transfer under 27 CFR
Part 479; or (3) on application of the licensee, in accordance with 27 CFR 478.150, the ATF
Director has certified that running a NICS background check is impracticable due to the
geographical location of the licensee.

ATF recognizes that Form 4473, Part I – Over-the-Counter, does not include the sworn statement
required by 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(1), and that licensees who sell firearms subject to section 478.96(b)
requirements without that statement would not be in compliance with Federal law. For this
reason, ATF authorizes this procedure to use Form 4473, Part I, for non-over-the-counter firearm
sales by licensees to unlicensed in-state residents that are NICS exempt.

Procedure: A licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer may record and conduct the sale of a
firearm to a resident of the same state who does not appear in person at the licensed business
premises using ATF Form 4473, Part I, provided the transfer is exempt from the NICS
requirements, pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(3) and 27 CFR 478.102(d), and the procedures below
are followed:"

So a non-over-the-counter firearms transfer requires a NICS background check UNLESS the firearm is an NFA item that has been approved to satisfy the NICS exceptions. Then the 4473 mailing procedures you have outlined are followed.

 

[5811]

I think what's really at play here is, you need a NICS check to buy a firearm, prior to being able to fill out the 4473.

When you apply for your stamp, a NICS check occurs. However, the licensee (dealer) does not know when your NICS check occurs during the process.

They do know, that when you are approved for the stamp, the NICS has been completed. So then they can start the 4473 mailing process, outlined above, which is the second CLEO notice for non-over-the-counter sales.

I will admit, I have explained this poorly at times. So I am partially to blame for Dave's reluctance to accept the procedure.

 

[Dave C.]

I think what's really at play here is, you need a NICS check to buy a firearm, prior to being able to fill out the 4473.

When you apply for your stamp, a NICS check occurs. However, the licensee (dealer) does not know when your NICS check occurs during the process.

They do know, that when you are approved for the stamp, the NICS has been completed. So then they can start the 4473 mailing process, outlined above, which is the second CLEO notice for non-over-the-counter sales.

I will admit, I have explained this poorly at times. So I am partially to blame for Dave's reluctance to accept the procedure.

You're getting warmer but still not there. You are correct that my argument is that 8 and 9 can occur PRIOR to stamp approval. However, you INCORRECT in stating that it can't be sent UNTIL the background check has been completed. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT ANYWHERE. You are reading that into the Section. Not only that, but if the transferee has a CCW(which I imagine a lot of purchasers have), it is unnecessary altogether.