Starting Gun Dogs vs. The Demands of Family Life

[VomSteinbruch]

The off switch is because people make there dogs neurotic and dont train them.

The “off switch,” which is closely related to stimulus threshold, is largely genetic. No amount of training can fully create it if it is not already present to some degree. A dog must have at least a solid genetic foundation for mental stability.

Some skilled trainers are able to mask a dog’s inherited neurotic tendencies and create what appears to be an “off switch,” at least on the surface. However, it often reveals itself in unexpected situations.

What they are really doing is conditioning the dog to behave in specific ways in specific contexts through reward and correction. The dog learns that certain environments or situations act as mental boundaries, restricting certain behaviors, and it accepts those boundaries. For example, whining in the crate or in a blind is not allowed, so the dog suppresses the behavior, even though the underlying urge remains due to a low stimulus threshold, which is largely genetic.

As the dog matures and the trainer introduces more of these “mental boundaries,” the dog adjusts its behavior accordingly. However, if the dog is not naturally level-headed, it will struggle to regulate itself in situations where those boundaries have not been clearly established. That’s when things can fall apart.

No training truly fixes this: it is more of a management technique developed by experienced trainers.

You can sometimes see this in dogs sitting quietly in a duck blind. On the surface, they appear calm, but it is often clear that they are tense underneath. An unfamiliar stimulus can trigger a sudden release of that internal pressure, and the dog may become uncontrollable, at least temporarily.

I’ve witnessed this firsthand during a test where a driven hunt was being simulated. A group of dogs was lined up along a forest road, and the requirement was that each dog remain lying down and quiet. Barking would result in disqualification.

A handful of hunters and beaters began working perpendicular to our line in the woods, creating noise by striking bushes and trees with poles. There was a dog next to me that got up as soon as the intensity of the noise increased. At first, it began to whine very softly, which alone would have cost it points, but as the beaters approached closer, started shouting, and firing blanks, the dog completely lost control. It broke, ran toward the beaters, and started barking at them.
The dog ultimately failed the test.

The owner later said that she had spent a significant amount of time preparing for this portion of the test and had managed to get the dog to remain quiet under controlled conditions. However, as soon as something unfamiliar occurred, the dog’s “off switch”, which had only been developed on the surface, fell apart.

 

[KurtR]

The “off switch,” which is closely related to stimulus threshold, is largely genetic. No amount of training can fully create it if it is not already present to some degree. A dog must have at least a solid genetic foundation for mental stability.

Some skilled trainers are able to mask a dog’s inherited neurotic tendencies and create what appears to be an “off switch,” at least on the surface. However, it often reveals itself in unexpected situations.

What they are really doing is conditioning the dog to behave in specific ways in specific contexts through reward and correction. The dog learns that certain environments or situations act as mental boundaries, restricting certain behaviors, and it accepts those boundaries. For example, whining in the crate or in a blind is not allowed, so the dog suppresses the behavior, even though the underlying urge remains due to a low stimulus threshold, which is largely genetic.

As the dog matures and the trainer introduces more of these “mental boundaries,” the dog adjusts its behavior accordingly. However, if the dog is not naturally level-headed, it will struggle to regulate itself in situations where those boundaries have not been clearly established. That’s when things can fall apart.

No training truly fixes this: it is more of a management technique developed by experienced trainers.

You can sometimes see this in dogs sitting quietly in a duck blind. On the surface, they appear calm, but it is often clear that they are tense underneath. An unfamiliar stimulus can trigger a sudden release of that internal pressure, and the dog may become uncontrollable, at least temporarily.

I’ve witnessed this firsthand during a test where a driven hunt was being simulated. A group of dogs was lined up along a forest road, and the requirement was that each dog remain lying down and quiet. Barking would result in disqualification.

A handful of hunters and beaters began working perpendicular to our line in the woods, creating noise by striking bushes and trees with poles. There was a dog next to me that got up as soon as the intensity of the noise increased. At first, it began to whine very softly, which alone would have cost it points, but as the beaters approached closer, started shouting, and firing blanks, the dog completely lost control. It broke, ran toward the beaters, and started barking at them.
The dog ultimately failed the test.

The owner later said that she had spent a significant amount of time preparing for this portion of the test and had managed to get the dog to remain quiet under controlled conditions. However, as soon as something unfamiliar occurred, the dog’s “off switch”, which had only been developed on the surface, fell apart.

First that isn’t an off switch that is called being steady. And she didn’t train ithe dog enough is why the dog broke.

Off switch is coming in the house and laying down and doing nothing. Not pacing around and not barking or just plain acting a fool.

people over stimulate the dogs and then don’t enforce obedience at home then try to be hard ass in the field and it confuses the dog.

Dogs that are genetically neurotic are not bred as they don’t succeed at the top levels . Everyone knows what dogs are noisy and who creeps what faults they have and they have to be really good to over look some like national field champion good. Cosmo was a noisy dog but go back and look at pedigrees and you find him a lot because he was a hammer. The right female would take that out of the pups maybe but you put him with another dragon buckle up. But then he could go lay on the couch and do nothing all day.

 

[VomSteinbruch]

don’t enforce obedience

So you need to enforce obedience to get the dog “off switch”?

Which is better, a dog that needs to be made calm down through obedience or a dog that calms down naturally without oversight?

The Inability to naturally turn on off switch is directly related to a dog’s inability to control itself in unpredictable situations. If you need to train a dog for all possible scenarios due to her low stimulus threshold that ain’t no good dawg. It’s character flaw and it only can be concealed by obedience.

 

[KurtR]

So you need to enforce obedience to get the dog “off switch”?

Which is better, a dog that needs to be made calm down through obedience or a dog that calms down naturally without oversight?

The Inability to naturally turn on off switch is directly related to a dog’s inability to control itself in unpredictable situations. If you need to train a dog for all possible scenarios due to her low stimulus threshold that ain’t no good dawg. It’s character flaw and it only can be concealed by obedience.

Both play a factor. You show the dog what is acceptable and they learn how to relax because they know they can.

Have you ever got to see a fc or afc or grand dog run and then see how they are off the line?

This isn’t just my experience this is guys who have had there hands on hundreds and some thousands of dogs through their career. People like Danny farmer and pat burns have talked about it extensively.

I have only run one national event and getting to see over 900 dogs in one spot you get to watch and learn a lot about dog behavior.

 

[el_jefe_pescado]

This thread is a gold mine. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to chime in.