Sitka took a stand

[rodney482]

Thought this was going to be a thread about Sitka moving its production out of asia.......

 

[EastMT]

IDK.. I worked in oil field for a long while. Decade or so. Im all for oil field stuff. However, im not all for it in preserves. This would set a precedent to open all preserves. A huge mistake, especially considering how much excess oil and gas we already have.

I've also seen what happens to little towns when oil moves in. Also seen what happens when oil leaves.

I gotta side with sitka on this one.

Its not just the drilling. Its everything that comes after. Do we want that in our preserves? I do not, especially considering how abundant oil and gas are throughout the lower 48.

Oil on a preserve is bad news for all preserves.

Yes there are mountainous places where drilling has been done. If you want to discuss colorado, wyoming. Ive worked in both. Colorado is seriously slowing the oil companies down.

Besides there are plenty of places to drill that are not tagged as wilderness/preserve. There's not much left of them and I fully believe we need to keep those places as they are.

Good on sitka

Maybe those states could set aside a portion of their oil money for Alaska or put an Alaska tax on lower 48 oil? A glut of oil other places does not benefit Alaskans in the least. You mentioned what happens to a town when oil leaves, now imagine that on a statewide scale. It’s happened before. If I remember right in the 80’s oil crash 7 of 9 Alaska banks went belly up, people just dropped house keys off at the bank. Last number I read was 322,000 working adults in Alaska, with a state the size of Texas, Cali, Montana combined. You can’t tax 322,000 people enough to pay for that large an areas costs. The amount of villages that need service, rural law enforcement, road maint, you name it costs a lot. Imaging a city of 700,000 paying to maintain 14,000 miles of roads, hundreds or airports, flying law enforcement hours for calls, etc etc. the state NEEDS oil revenue.

Alaska has little chance at manufacturing due to shipping costs, small chance at technology relocating. Alaska has tourism, fishing, hunting, oil, minerals. With double whammy of virus and oil price drop, it’s going to be a rough few years.

 

[EastMT]

Thought this was going to be a thread about Sitka moving its production out of asia.......

Sounds like they need to move it to Alaska. Maybe they could start a cascade that would negate the necessity of oil revenues.......shipping is only about triple, usually you get stuff with a few weeks, occasionally 4 weeks.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

Good for Sitka. We've F'd up enough of the world already. Leave the last wild places wild.

 

[Deadfall]

Maybe those states could set aside a portion of their oil money for Alaska or put an Alaska tax on lower 48 oil? A glut of oil other places does not benefit Alaskans in the least. You mentioned what happens to a town when oil leaves, now imagine that on a statewide scale. It’s happened before. If I remember right in the 80’s oil crash 7 of 9 Alaska banks went belly up, people just dropped house keys off at the bank. Last number I read was 322,000 working adults in Alaska, with a state the size of Texas, Cali, Montana combined. You can’t tax 322,000 people enough to pay for that large an areas costs. The amount of villages that need service, rural law enforcement, road maint, you name it costs a lot. Imaging a city of 700,000 paying to maintain 14,000 miles of roads, hundreds or airports, flying law enforcement hours for calls, etc etc. the state NEEDS oil revenue.

Alaska has little chance at manufacturing due to shipping costs, small chance at technology relocating. Alaska has tourism, fishing, hunting, oil, minerals. With double whammy of virus and oil price drop, it’s going to be a rough few years.

80s hit everywhere like that. Atleast where oil is. I'm in montana, where oil is concerned its much like Alaska I recon. Very little of it going on. I'm not opposed to oil at all. Just can't wrap my head around oil field coming to preserves. Which will set stage for wilderness driving and so on. I'm sure there's oil in other places up there. Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[Newtosavage]

What's clear to me, reading through all this, is that too much of our economy is based on the extraction of oil. We are far past the time when we should be transitioning away from oil to renewable sources of energy. Why? Because our national security and our grandkid's grandkids depend on us to do so.

A Google Earth image of the Eagle Ford shale zone of SE Texas and the loss of American soldier's lives in the Middle East tells us all we need to know about how destructive our current energy strategy is.

So long as our enemies have huge reserves of something we depend on, our national security will always be at risk. There are multiple, good reasons for reducing our dependence on oil. Not just foreign oil.

We're sitting here, on a hunting forum, arguing over how much of one of the last untouched places in our nation is okay to permanently disturb while we 1) use more oil than we need, and 2) export oil to other nations. How ironic is that?

 

[EastMT]

80s hit everywhere like that. Atleast where oil is. I'm in montana, where oil is concerned its much like Alaska I recon. Very little of it going on. I'm not opposed to oil at all. Just can't wrap my head around oil field coming to preserves. Which will set stage for wilderness driving and so on. I'm sure there's oil in other places up there. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t WANT to drill in ANWR, NPRA. Just don’t see a lot of options for AK long term to somehow replace the revenue.

 

[Deadfall]

Maybe those states could set aside a portion of their oil money for Alaska or put an Alaska tax on lower 48 oil? A glut of oil other places does not benefit Alaskans in the least. You mentioned what happens to a town when oil leaves, now imagine that on a statewide scale. It’s happened before. If I remember right in the 80’s oil crash 7 of 9 Alaska banks went belly up, people just dropped house keys off at the bank. Last number I read was 322,000 working adults in Alaska, with a state the size of Texas, Cali, Montana combined. You can’t tax 322,000 people enough to pay for that large an areas costs. The amount of villages that need service, rural law enforcement, road maint, you name it costs a lot. Imaging a city of 700,000 paying to maintain 14,000 miles of roads, hundreds or airports, flying law enforcement hours for calls, etc etc. the state NEEDS oil revenue.

Alaska has little chance at manufacturing due to shipping costs, small chance at technology relocating. Alaska has tourism, fishing, hunting, oil, minerals. With double whammy of virus and oil price drop, it’s going to be a rough few years.

I absolutely agree that oil money from other states could and should boost other states. Taxes off that could completely fund school systems. Its 4idiculous when you see a town of a few hundred with a school and facilities that loojs like a college campus.

 

[Newtosavage]

I absolutely agree that oil money from other states could and should boost other states. Taxes off that could completely fund school systems. Its 4idiculous when you see a town of a few hundred with a school and facilities that loojs like a college campus.

While the "have-not" states will probably agree with you, the "have" states will call this way of thinking "socialism."

I think of what you said every time I see oil rigs off the gulf coast, but none on the East or West coast, because they don't want to look at them. Ridiculous double-standards we have in this country.

 

[Deadfall]

Noone talking about all the drilling that goes on in California either. Out there big fake buildings are put up to hide it all.
California as broke as anywhere.

 

[Artanis95]

It's all fine and dandy till Billy Bob poisons your water hole, I remember the Los animas spill. They can extract cleanly problem is multi billion dollar companies being to cheap, irresponsible, and to greedy to police themselves until they show otherwise with what they already have it's a hard no from me.
As far as economic impacts well... That's what happens when all your eggs are in the same basket if that's all you have driving your economy you're eventually going to draw the short stick that's just the way it is doesn't mean I don't feel for the families and towns affected but life isn't fair everyone just has to learn to deal with it.

 

[Deadfall]

While the "have-not" states will probably agree with you, the "have" states will call this way of thinking "socialism."

I think of what you said every time I see oil rigs off the gulf coast, but none on the East or West coast, because they don't want to look at them. Ridiculous double-standards we have in this country.

True that. Recon no amount of money can make up for poor management. Which, government mostly ipitomises.

 

[wind gypsy]

Maybe those states could set aside a portion of their oil money for Alaska or put an Alaska tax on lower 48 oil? A glut of oil other places does not benefit Alaskans in the least. You mentioned what happens to a town when oil leaves, now imagine that on a statewide scale. It’s happened before. If I remember right in the 80’s oil crash 7 of 9 Alaska banks went belly up, people just dropped house keys off at the bank. Last number I read was 322,000 working adults in Alaska, with a state the size of Texas, Cali, Montana combined. You can’t tax 322,000 people enough to pay for that large an areas costs. The amount of villages that need service, rural law enforcement, road maint, you name it costs a lot. Imaging a city of 700,000 paying to maintain 14,000 miles of roads, hundreds or airports, flying law enforcement hours for calls, etc etc. the state NEEDS oil revenue.

Alaska has little chance at manufacturing due to shipping costs, small chance at technology relocating. Alaska has tourism, fishing, hunting, oil, minerals. With double whammy of virus and oil price drop, it’s going to be a rough few years.

I'm sure the total volume of crude produced is a complex topic with lots of variables but... Is it fair to say the current volume is primarily limited by access to new drilling locations? How does the cost of oil in comparison to drilling investment cost impact it?

 

[tt_johnsclist]

I don’t know enough about oil drilling or this proposed site to have an opinion one way or the other. If I do ever need to form an opinion though I am going to turn to agencies and academics for guidance, not the opinions of self righteous business. Similarly, I’m not going to call an oil and gas regulatory agency and ask them what brand of rain gear will work best on my next elk hunt.

 

[Gearqueer]

Our grandchildren will not be consuming oil the way we do. Let’s keep the refuge the way it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stonewall]

in all seriousness, i can see it both ways based on the points I've read in the thread so far. I'm inclined to lean to the not drilling side, but I'm ignorant of the matter and would have to defer to the experts

the point about the eagle ford shale is quite true. my dad retired from a major oil company, and they drilled what was at the time the longest horizontal well in the world (in russia). why they need a pad seemingly everywhere in Texas is beyond me. on a 700acre piece of property there are 6 pads, one of those pads being 7 acres. i would think one pad with multiple horizontal wells would take care of it, but what do i know

as far as human impact, there has been impact on native cats in Texas. I believe they largely attribute this to the development of brush land, probably for building and especially agriculture. I would think if Texas had large expanses of public land there would be more native habitat. it's worth noting though that many landowners do put their focus on wildlife. while many go the route of ag exemption for property tax, it is possible to use a wildlife exemption (though there's some rules surrounding its use)

Texas Cats — Texas Parks & Wildlife Department

tpwd.texas.gov

 

[stonewall]

Maybe those states could set aside a portion of their oil money for Alaska or put an Alaska tax on lower 48 oil? A glut of oil other places does not benefit Alaskans in the least. You mentioned what happens to a town when oil leaves, now imagine that on a statewide scale. It’s happened before. If I remember right in the 80’s oil crash 7 of 9 Alaska banks went belly up, people just dropped house keys off at the bank. Last number I read was 322,000 working adults in Alaska, with a state the size of Texas, Cali, Montana combined. You can’t tax 322,000 people enough to pay for that large an areas costs. The amount of villages that need service, rural law enforcement, road maint, you name it costs a lot. Imaging a city of 700,000 paying to maintain 14,000 miles of roads, hundreds or airports, flying law enforcement hours for calls, etc etc. the state NEEDS oil revenue.

Alaska has little chance at manufacturing due to shipping costs, small chance at technology relocating. Alaska has tourism, fishing, hunting, oil, minerals. With double whammy of virus and oil price drop, it’s going to be a rough few years.

is this due to depletion or an uptick in production in other places?
I'm not well versed in the matter, but i find it interesting the peak was right around the 1989 exxon valdez spill. probably just a coincidence, but interesting none the less

 

[EastMT]

is this due to depletion or an uptick in production in other places?
I'm not well versed in the matter, but i find it interesting the peak was right around the 1989 exxon valdez spill. probably just a coincidence, but interesting none the less

The wells slow down after awhile. Sometimes they pick back up, but they eventually are tapped out. They find new spots all the time, just not as big, little pockets here and there added. They have been expanding west, a lot of building around Nuiqsut area, on the edge of the NPRA. Last I was in that area they were exploring and doing test wells, bringing wells online from that area

 

[EastMT]

Our grandchildren will not be consuming oil the way we do. Let’s keep the refuge the way it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are correct. Wait until we start tearing everything up to find lithium, nickel, etc. Talk about import dependent.

 

[Yarcher]

You are correct. Wait until we start tearing everything up to find lithium, nickel, etc. Talk about import dependent.

My son and I were just having this conversation the other day. What's the lesser of two evils...