Rifle Advice

[TAArrowood]

Again, I would take the two gun approach.. If you choose two Tikkas and a chassis of your choice the two barreled actions could easily be moved to the chassis system.. All Tikkas actions are the same length... If you picked a Tikka with .473 bolt head caliber as your hunter you could easily rebarrel it with a Proof Pre-fit of the same or new caliber and not give up anything you already own.. That would open up a lot of options for you.. Cases like the awesome 280Ai and others would be a possibility.. If worst came to worse you could buy a replacement LRI bolt or Tikka with .532 bolt head and put any mag caliber in the same setup (with magazine changes and possibly bolt stop of course).. Just thinking out loud..

 

[CorbLand]

@Map 1 @J Batt

I hear you both on the 6.5 not being an entirely better long range cartridge in terms of terminal performance. I'm not as stubborn as some in this thread would like to think . I think the 6.5 out shines the 270 in 2 places: 1) higher BC reducing wind drift 2) affordably of ammo. If I go the route of having only one gun for both practice & hunting, this may be it. Even if this means reducing my max effective range.

I'm keeping the .270, and will always have it. And if I am adding another gun, I think there are some more benefits to have by adding a different cartridge

To expand a bit more before I get hammered; as @J Batt and others have mentioned. The wind has made a fool out of me a lot and is a heavy consideration on my overall cartridge choice. Maybe the wind is still even making a mental fool of me as I mentally weigh cartridges based minimizing the effect of the wind. The thought here is this is a consideration of what I consider a "forgiving" setup. In the field I'm a hold over for wind guy. This does not mean I will ignore wind and take shots I think are bad or high risk. But in a light wind scenario, I think there is a greater benefit to a higher BC round. Anyone; feel free to tell me I'm wrong here.

I also hear the argument that without that 2000+- shots a year, I have no business in the 600-800 effective range. Loud and clear. I understand that a setup alone does not get me there, and that I have a ton of practice to do before I consider this range. But I want a setup to work my way towards that goal.

To those that recommend a two gun approach: .223 and an another cartridge. I hear you, it is a consideration. My hesitation is that I do want a pistol grip style chassis system. I shoot my AR a lot and think my shot process is much better ( more comfortable). Just a preference. Because of cost, its less feasible to put together two "identical" setups. Again I would prefer the 1 setup or 2 identical setup approach; but what are some issues with the majority of practice with an AR? Maybe shooting a few hundred through the AR for every 20 from the hunting rig, or shooting a couple thousand through the AR; then switching solely to the hunting rig a few months out?

I understand the cost issue but if you plan to shoot as much as everyone is suggesting, you will be money ahead in the first year by shooting a 223.

If cost is an issue, spend your money on ammo for your 270. It’s not what I would say is ideal but it is capable.

 

[TAArrowood]

Sounds like you prefer the 6.5 over the 270 because of better BC.. Just keep in mind that if you loaded a 270 down to the velocity of the 6.5cm with heavier/longer bullets you've dramatically improved the BC of the 270. It's easy to get too hung up on things that may/may not prove out in the field.. Just saying..

 

[fwafwow]

Sounds like you prefer the 6.5 over the 270 because of better BC.. Just keep in mind that if you loaded a 270 down to the velocity of the 6.5cm with heavier/longer bullets you've dramatically improved the BC of the 270. It's easy to get too hung up on things that may/may not prove out in the field.. Just saying..

I don’t think he hand loads

 

[nobody]

@Map 1 @J Batt

I hear you both on the 6.5 not being an entirely better long range cartridge in terms of terminal performance. I'm not as stubborn as some in this thread would like to think . I think the 6.5 out shines the 270 in 2 places: 1) higher BC reducing wind drift 2) affordably of ammo. If I go the route of having only one gun for both practice & hunting, this may be it. Even if this means reducing my max effective range.

I'm keeping the .270, and will always have it. And if I am adding another gun, I think there are some more benefits to have by adding a different cartridge

To expand a bit more before I get hammered; as @J Batt and others have mentioned. The wind has made a fool out of me a lot and is a heavy consideration on my overall cartridge choice. Maybe the wind is still even making a mental fool of me as I mentally weigh cartridges based minimizing the effect of the wind. The thought here is this is a consideration of what I consider a "forgiving" setup. In the field I'm a hold over for wind guy. This does not mean I will ignore wind and take shots I think are bad or high risk. But in a light wind scenario, I think there is a greater benefit to a higher BC round. Anyone; feel free to tell me I'm wrong here.

I also hear the argument that without that 2000+- shots a year, I have no business in the 600-800 effective range. Loud and clear. I understand that a setup alone does not get me there, and that I have a ton of practice to do before I consider this range. But I want a setup to work my way towards that goal.

To those that recommend a two gun approach: .223 and an another cartridge. I hear you, it is a consideration. My hesitation is that I do want a pistol grip style chassis system. I shoot my AR a lot and think my shot process is much better ( more comfortable). Just a preference. Because of cost, its less feasible to put together two "identical" setups. Again I would prefer the 1 setup or 2 identical setup approach; but what are some issues with the majority of practice with an AR? Maybe shooting a few hundred through the AR for every 20 from the hunting rig, or shooting a couple thousand through the AR; then switching solely to the hunting rig a few months out?

Not at all trying to be rude, but it seems to me (based on this post) that you've already made your decision for what you want to do, and no amount of input from us is going to change your position. You've rebutted all of our suggestions and shot most of them down, no matter who has brought it up.

We've all made it VERY clear what we are suggesting is for you to go and purchase two rifles and set them up into what we all here have deemed "Rokslide Specials." Matching Tikka T3x's in .223 and 6.5 Creed/.270/.308, either a pic rail and Seekins Ring setup or Sportsmatch rings (if you can find them), and either an SWFA, Nightforce, or Trijicon optic. Purchase a metric butt-ton of ammo for the .223 and shoot it all this summer, purchase a few thousand rounds of your other cartridge, all from the same lot of ammo, and shoot it from time to time to stay sharp. Shoot primarily from field positions in less than ideal field conditions, and kill lots of critters. Boiled down, that's what you need to do if we were all making the decision for you.

You don't seem to like those suggestions, and that is totally fine! If you've made up your mind already and were just coming here looking for some validation, then I vote you go slide your card and get after it! We will be interested for an update down the road, post up some rifle pics when you're all set up, we love us some gun porn! Good luck!

 

[TAArrowood]

Yea.. I got that from his earlier post, but it's pretty hard to imagine anyone who is serious about shooting long range counting on factory ammo to consistently do it.. I know that factory ammo is light years better than it was a few years ago, but consistent hits at long range are pretty demanding and sometimes requires setting bullets exactly off the lands, finding the best SD, etc... If he is truly serious he will probably eventually find that factory ammo will be fine for most shooting, but will not allow some of the tweaking that may be necessary.. There are mfg tolerances for variation within a single lot of ammo.. When you start considering lot to lot variations the inconsistancy/variation grows even more. Just my opinion of course.. If he finds a factory load that does it for him... great. Buy as many of the same lot as you can and have fun, but I never have..

 

[Rifles And More]

Hopefully the OP learned one thing:

Don't go to the internet for advice.

 

[TAArrowood]

I truly hope that is not his takeaway.. I think that we all easily translate our opinions into advice.. I think one should never expect any more than opinions from the internet( as well meant as it all is).. I only take advice from people I really know and have known for a while, but am open to any opinion anyone would like to share.. Who knows they have probably considered something I haven't and make me more informed in making my own decisions.

 

[MAP1]

Someone posted a huge discrepancy between 6.5CM and 270 wind drift using Berger and Hornady ammo. I don’t use either ammo, maybe numbers are correct but looking at Barnes LRX 270 hangs tight with 6.5 Creedmoor out to 600 yard wind drift numbers. 500 yards on game is my limit no way on earth I’m trading the extra horsepower and mild recoil the 270 provides for a few inches of wind drift advantage from 6.5 CM.

 

[stanginthe11s]

just a quick recommendation, forget about BC. it's not what you think it is.

 

[Lil-Rokslider656]

Again, I would take the two gun approach.. If you choose two Tikkas and a chassis of your choice the two barreled actions could easily be moved to the chassis system.. All Tikkas actions are the same length... If you picked a Tikka with .473 bolt head caliber as your hunter you could easily rebarrel it with a Proof Pre-fit of the same or new caliber and not give up anything you already own.. That would open up a lot of options for you.. Cases like the awesome 280Ai and others would be a possibility.. If worst came to worse you could buy a replacement LRI bolt or Tikka with .532 bolt head and put any mag caliber in the same setup (with magazine changes and possibly bolt stop of course).. Just thinking out loud..

I was under the impression that the MDT chassis would not work for something like a 223 and 7mm rem mag. They have a “short action” option and “long action” option. But it would work for a .223 ans 6.5.

I’d be happy to be wrong here. Please lee me know if I am

 

[ResearchinStuff]

270 is a long action cartridge with over 10 grains more case capacity than the creedmoor case. Ignoring the fact that both bullets shown have lousy bcs and would not be my choice, in an 8 pound rifle the 270 will have a recoil velocity of 11.97 fps and a recoil energy of 17.8 ft lbs.

The creed with the ammo shown from an 8# rifle will be at a velocity of 10.16 fps, with an energy of 12.83 fps. There's more differences in the recoil than you might expect, despite similar external ballistics between those 2 bullets.

 

[Lil-Rokslider656]

Hopefully the OP learned one thing:

Don't go to the internet for advice.

You can say that again. But there are little nuggest of info hidden in all the garbage piles.

 

[Lil-Rokslider656]

Not at all trying to be rude, but it seems to me (based on this post) that you've already made your decision for what you want to do, and no amount of input from us is going to change your position. You've rebutted all of our suggestions and shot most of them down, no matter who has brought it up.

We've all made it VERY clear what we are suggesting is for you to go and purchase two rifles and set them up into what we all here have deemed "Rokslide Specials." Matching Tikka T3x's in .223 and 6.5 Creed/.270/.308, either a pic rail and Seekins Ring setup or Sportsmatch rings (if you can find them), and either an SWFA, Nightforce, or Trijicon optic. Purchase a metric butt-ton of ammo for the .223 and shoot it all this summer, purchase a few thousand rounds of your other cartridge, all from the same lot of ammo, and shoot it from time to time to stay sharp. Shoot primarily from field positions in less than ideal field conditions, and kill lots of critters. Boiled down, that's what you need to do if we were all making the decision for you.

You don't seem to like those suggestions, and that is totally fine! If you've made up your mind already and were just coming here looking for some validation, then I vote you go slide your card and get after it! We will be interested for an update down the road, post up some rifle pics when you're all set up, we love us some gun porn! Good

I’m happy to point out you are incorrect. My bias going into this was to build a 7mm prc and that would be that. But I wanted to hear other opinions and threw in the other wildcard options of upgrading my savage or going with a smaller cartridge.


Now I’m considering the smaller 6.5 after reading and seeing some of the .223 damage.

I’m also considering the 2 rifle option. That was no where on the table to begin with. Its also the most dangerous option going to my wife and saying: “instead of buying one rifle, now I’m buying two”

Lastly, I’m still considering and taking in information. I’m not a rash decision maker, Its been enough information for me to do a bit more reading, thinking and run some cost analysis on more build options I was mot considering before.

 

[CorbLand]

I was under the impression that the MDT chassis would not work for something like a 223 and 7mm rem mag. They have a “short action” option and “long action” option. But it would work for a .223 ans 6.5.

I’d be happy to be wrong here. Please lee me know if I am

If you went with a Tikka, they only make long actions. .223 and 7mm would be the same action length in a Tikka.

 

[CorbLand]

You can say that again. But there are little nuggest of info hidden in all the garbage piles.

I would be more curious to know what “garbage piles” are in this thread?

 

[stanginthe11s]

I’m also considering the 2 rifle option. That was no where on the table to begin with. Its also the most dangerous option going to my wife and saying: “instead of buying one rifle, now I’m buying two”

Lastly, I’m still considering and taking in information. I’m not a rash decision maker, Its been enough information for me to do a bit more reading, thinking and run some cost analysis on more build options I was mot considering before.

first, tell you wife after you make the purchase and explain to her that one of them is for her lol.
second, do not think that you have to buy some high dollar big name rifle to shoot LR.
my personal favorite is howa. a 500$ rifle that has the same sub moa lifetime guarantee as everyone else, and they're proven. yes, you can get a chassis for them but personally I wouldn't put a chassis on a hunting rifle that I intended to chase elk with, but that's just my preference.
that being said, tikkas are nice just don't feel like you are limited.

 

[TAArrowood]

Great!! Sounds like the thread overall has been a success.. I've posted " give me your advice" threads before myself and have gotten a lot of worthless comments and some real gems.. I only wished in hindsight I'd have asked "Share your opinions or share some options that I might consider".. Thanks to the OP for being patient with those of us (me in particular) who have offered our thoughts.. Take them and consider them, but do what works for you and your situation.. Please let us know how you progress in your quest and all the best..

 

[Lil-Rokslider656]

first, tell you wife after you make the purchase and explain to her that one of them is for her lol.

probably the single best piece of info so far

 

[stanginthe11s]

lol, I do what I can. but seriously, the advice given is worth more than you realize right now. the basic summary here is that the rifle or caliber is not what makes a LR hunter. and all the #'s mean nothing by themselves, you have to actually spend time behind the gun to truly understand where and how to apply them.