Rifle Advice

[Flyjunky]

I didn’t say no one has ever done it, I said I don’t know anyone that has. Did you start learning to shoot long range with the Win mag?

When I started to get serious about distance, yes, it was the 300wm. But I’ve been shooting since I was 8 using a 243. I’m having a new 6.5-284 built right now and I think I’m going to build a 6 creed to practice with since components are getting so expensive. 300wm eats too much powder going through that many rounds a year. I shoot the 210vld for practice but hunt with the 215.

I’m pretty lucky that my range has 500, 1200, and 1400 yard ranges and it’s only 25 minutes from my house.

 

[Flyjunky]

If your state doesn’t allow .223’s for big game, check out the 6mm CM shooting 108 gr eldms. I have one and it is one of three main big game rifles in my rotation.

How do you like the 6 creed? How is it setup? I’m thinking of building one on an action I have lying around. I’m thinking of using it as my main trainer going forward?

 

[Formidilosus]

When I started to get serious about distance, yes, it was the 300wm. But I’ve been shooting since I was 8 using a 243. I’m having a new 6.5-284 built right now and I think I’m going to build a 6 creed to practice with since components are getting so expensive. 300wm eats too much powder going through that many rounds a year. I shoot the 210vld for practice but hunt with the 215.

I’m pretty lucky that my range has 500, 1200, and 1400 yard ranges and it’s only 25 minutes from my house.

I would bet the amount of people that shoot more than a hundred rounds a year from guns that recoil are in the percent, of one percent. I used to shoot thousand a of rounds a year from magnums. Now more like 1-2,000, as it isn’t necessary for I do so. The practice/performance results are better with less recoil.

 

[Flyjunky]

I would bet the amount of people that shoot more than a hundred rounds a year from guns that recoil are in the percent, of one percent. I used to shoot thousand a of rounds a year from magnums. Now more like 1-2,000, as it isn’t necessary for I do so. The practice/performance results are better with less recoil.

Totally agree. Inherently we all shoot less recoiling rifles better but I honestly don’t mind the recoil. It has a great brake and my 270 punishes me more than my 300 but part of that is the better stock on the 300 as well. I have no problem ripping off 50-75 300wm rounds every time I’m at the range.

I’m very anxious to get my 6.5-284, just got a message from my smith that the action was delivered yesterday. This summer I’ll start on the 6 creed.

 

[wakedye]

I shared my experience not to say you need to practice more but to share that the 270 is a very capable cartridge out to pretty good distances. The 6.5 cm does similar things with less recoil. Right now my shot choices are limited more by my abilities than limitations of the 270 cartridge. If your gun shoots well then I would say keep it and start shooting more. If it doesn’t shoot that well or you just want to get your more long term setup now then I would recommend a 6 cm or 6.5 cm based on my limited experience. I am wanting to get either of those because they have less recoil than my 270.


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[Rifles And More]

Form means well. Sometimes his Super Moderator cape gets tangled in his keyboard when he types and it comes across wrong.

The 270 will work if you shoot it well.

If you want a new or custom rifle - go get one. There is no magic recipe for hunting Elk or most anything, for that matter.

Practice a lot at distance. That way, when you go Elk hunting you'll be ready for that 200 yard shot you didn't expect!

 

[Lil-Rokslider656]

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

I recommend reading through this entire thread before you start throwing jabs on this forum. The results are very interesting with lots of pics to support conclusions.

I'm reading up on this and other 223 forms like it here on Rokslide.

I'm not against the advice on a small caliber and am not "throwing jabs" against this info. I am in Oregon, so a .223 is not legal to hunt elk with. It was again the way Formidilosus answered ; not the information provided. He could have (and ultimately did in a round about way) started from the get go that he believes strongly high round counts over caliber, and to go with the smaller caliber option and focusing on shooting. This message has been received loud and clear, again delivery.

I've tallied his opinion and several others in this forum into the consider the 6.5 Creedmoor option. It is still a strong consideration.

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[Lil-Rokslider656]

Yup, I'll second what Form and others are saying, even though you don't like the advice.

You're going into this backwards. Being an avid archer, you understand what it takes to be successful at archery. You don't need the new Matthew's every year, you don't need high dollar broadheads or the latest camo pattern to kill. What you do need is insane amounts of practice, an intimate understanding of your setup and your own personal limitations, and some luck. The exact same thing is going on with long range shooting and hunting. A few boxes per summer is not enough practice, no matter what your granddad told you. When you draw a bead on an animal at 500 yards, you need to understand your own shooting ability well enough to know when you should and should not be pulling the trigger.

On my first "big" elk hunt a few years ago, I went every day, after work, all summer long, and would shoot one entire box of ammo from field positions out to about 800 yards. I did it in wind, rain, low light, you name it. I also went early mornings on saturdays and would shoot another box quite often. I went through roughly 100-120 boxes (2k-2400 rounds) of factory ammo leading up to that hunt, and boy did I feel like I was ready. Then, on the 4th day, I flubbed my setup time and missed an opportunity on a bull at about 500 yards. I luckily ended up re-finding him later that day and was able to put him down, but I flat out screwed up earlier that day.

What was my screw up? Time. I underestimated how much time setting up from standing, with my pack and rifle on, was going to take me. It took astronomically more time than I had anticipated, I hadn't really practiced it (even though I had shot a ton from field positions all summer), and it cost me chip shot opportunity that morning in Central Utah.

You don't need more gun, you don't need "more kinetic energy," or "hydrostatic shock" or whatever buzz word is all the rage right now with gun writers (go read the .260/6.5 thread and check out would channels and results from guys who use them, you'll see none of that matters in real world land). What you need is astronomical amounts of trigger time with applicable practice. Practice with your pack on and your bino harness (just like you would in Archery), practice in the wind (just like you would in archery), practice in poor light and bad weather (surprise, just like you would with archery).

That being said, I don't blame you for wanting to dump your Salvage rifle in favor of something better. A tight twist 223 Tikka makes great practice and is cheap to shoot (relatively), and another Tikka (honestly, I would stick with a 270, since you probably already have ammo for it), for keeping sharp on your hunting rifle will do anything you'd ever want to do. Pick an appropriate bullet for the 270, like an ELDX or SST, practice a piss-load with the 223, and come back in a couple years and show us the pics of the bull you end up with. That 270 isn't what's holding you back, and with the right bullet and enough practice, you'll never want for anything more.

I love a lot of what you said here. Here is where I am coming from as an archer:
- I understand how critical reps/ practice are.
- I understand how critical conditions are that weigh in on the potential to take a shot. I would weigh all options before taking a shot. Obviously not going to go out and try to force a long shot standing, in bad weather, high winds, etc etc etc.
- I understand how critical a good sight is: BC calculator for yardage drop, adjusting angle range finder, making sure you are shooting level all are critical in repeatability of making good shots. BTW for others who have recommended it. I already have a quality optic, part of why I did not ask for advice in that realm.
- I believe it is best to practice primarily with the equipment you intend to use. Up for debate and willing to hear arguments here, just a generalization of where I stand. But I do not have a dedicated target and hunting bows. I have a hunting bow I use for target.

Since we are doing analogies to bows; I feel like my savage is a low end old model bow with limited adjustment and forgiveness. When I started shooting I had an old hoyt, great bow, upgraded to a Bowtech Revolt X and learned just how much I didn't know. I regularly shoot the new flagships, but nothing has jumped out at me as beneficial enough to make the switch.. Following suit with the rifle, looking to get onto a "better" platform. To your point; I don't even need a new shiny flagship: just looking for setup advice that has what I call "tuneability & forgiveness"

 

[nobody]

- I believe it is best to practice primarily with the equipment you intend to use. Up for debate and willing to hear arguments here, just a generalization of where I stand. But I do not have a dedicated target and hunting bows. I have a hunting bow I use for target.

Since you mention this and say you're open here, I want to address this.

You are absolutely 100% right, it is unquestionably better to practice with what you hunt with. And if you can do that, you'll be be better off for it. The problem comes with ammo cost, availability, and barrel life.

As an example, since you say you're entertaining a 6.5 Creedmoor, we will examine that angle. You'll do good to get 4-5k rounds through the barrel of your 6.5 before it's toast, and then you'll need a new tube. Along the way, since you'll be running factory ammo, let's say you can get a good deal on some of Hornady's ELDM or X ammo, and you're paying $1.75 per round. You'll be paying roughly $8500 for all the ammo through your 6.5 Creed before the barrel is toasted. Additionally, if you're shooting as much as you should be, and shooting year round, you'll burn a barrel per year.

Buying a matched pair of 223/6.5 creed from a reputable and well supported company like Tikka allows you to practice with an ergonomically identical rifle (223), saving money on ammo (roughly half the cost per round), and you'll go many many MANY more moons between barrels on the 223. You'll still be putting roughly 1k rounds through the 6.5 to stay sharp, but you'll get more time between tubes and annually spend less money on ammo to get the same number of trigger pulls per year. That's why we are saying that, especially in the component shortage world we live in.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I'm reading up on this and other 223 forms like it here on Rokslide.

I'm not against the advice on a small caliber and am not "throwing jabs" against this info. I am in Oregon, so a .223 is not legal to hunt elk with. It was again the way Formidilosus answered ; not the information provided. He could have (and ultimately did in a round about way) started from the get go that he believes strongly high round counts over caliber, and to go with the smaller caliber option and focusing on shooting. This message has been received loud and clear, again delivery.

I've tallied his opinion and several others in this forum into the consider the 6.5 Creedmoor option. It is still a strong consideration.

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Like I said in my second post. I would take a close look at the 6mm creedmoor. We have both, my son has a 6.5 creedmoor and I have a 6mm. I also have a 6.5 PRC. The 6mm is no slouch and is becoming one of my favorite rifles. B

 

[Gila]

If you shoot the .270 Win well, then get a 300 Win Mag and don’t look back!

As far as factory ammo, you may need to go through a few different loads, but it either shoots well or it doesn’t. No different than the .270 Win. I am good out to 500. At 700 don’t know if I will ever get there and be confident, but it doesn’t matter to me anyway. The rifle is capable of it.

 

[wind gypsy]

How many 77 TMKs does it take to kill a dead horse?

 

[Gila]

How many 77 TMKs does it take to kill a dead horse?

Don’t know but I am looking for 180 gr tipped game changers for my 300 win mag....

 

[OdinIII]

Rfogelman656 - Have you compared 270 Win to 6.5 CM with typical hunting bullets like the Accubond or TSX? Given your background, you'll be hard pressed to prove to yourself that the 6.5 CM will perform better on game if you look at the numbers.​

 

[ResearchinStuff]

What's your quality optic on hand? May as well hurt all your feelings at once......

 

[Reburn]

What's your quality optic on hand? May as well hurt all your feelings at once......

Annoyed hurt feelings.
Kinda like doubley mad.

I really want to know what optic as well. I got money on gold ring Mark V.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Annoyed hurt feelings.
Kinda like doubley mad.

I really want to know what optic as well. I got money on gold ring Mark V.

Isn't that ring actually black? I know it was on the mk4

 

[Dobermann]

I ask a question; specifically about setup(s). And I get the recommendation that I should practice more……

And that's not a contradiction; it's a clue.

 

[Reburn]

Isn't that ring actually black? I know it was on the mk4

Details.
I dont own one. I only own scopes that work as designed.
But techinally yes its a black ring on the leupold mark 5hd

 

[fwafwow]