Rifle Advice

[Rfogelman656]

Hey Ya’ll, hoping for a bit of advice on a rifle setup for hunting elk.

Right now I have a Savage Axis 2 in 270. Its a fine gun for that 0-300/400 yard range. But I’d like to be prepared for longer shots in the 600-800 yard range with good BC. I like the idea of a higher BC setup because intuitively it sounds more forgiving all factors considered. As an archrey guy; I think a forgiving setup is important.

I like chassis and the pistol grip, i shot them more comfortably.

I do not hand load.

So now onto my hangup; do I build a rifle, buy a new rifle or modify mine?

Build: i was thinking of getting a blueprinted remington 700 action, mdt chasis, proof research barrel configured for 7mm prc. All in this will likely run me 2200-2500? But i’d assume this would be very forgiving setup and have 3/4 MOA accuracy with factory loads.

Buy: was thinking about the sig cross or a tikka t3. Sig cross would be 6.5; and while not my preferred caliber, i could squeeze a bit more juice our of a burger eld cartridge.
Tikka t3 is a great start, but would then require a chassis. Probably go with a 7mm rem mag since there is no 7mm prc option. Could also consider a 6.5 prc, but but the time I buy a tikka t3 and chassis I am approaching what I could spend to build a rifle.

Upgrade my savage. I like this option because it was my first gun. Its cool to think it could be improved. Upgrad parts are limited, and I dont know if blueprinting the cheap axis 2 action is really a thing, or would be recommended? But was thinking of getting a proof research carbon barrel and chassis. I could stick with the 270, get a mdt chassis and go faster twist and go with the berger eld 270. The hotter load and faster twist really improves the BCs of this round. Or potentially have a gun smith change the cartridge since I’m buying a barrel already? I guess the real question on this one is : is a blueprinted remington action and timney trigger worth the extra $900, or would a good barrel on my axis 2 be forgiving enough to get in that 3/4 moa ballpark?

 

[Formidilosus]

Hey Ya’ll, hoping for a bit of advice on a rifle setup for hunting elk.

Right now I have a Savage Axis 2 in 270. Its a fine gun for that 0-300/400 yard range. But I’d like to be prepared for longer shots in the 600-800 yard range

How many rounds a year do you fire for practice, not from the bench? And how often do you shoot at 800 yards?

 

[Rfogelman656]

How many rounds a year do you fire for practice, not from the bench? And how often do you shoot at 800 yards?

I rarely shoot from a bench.

Have not shot the rifle much in the past few years.

A lot of this is preparation for rifle elk tags in the upcoming years. I’ve leaned a lot of “fundamentals” from archrey. Trying to establish a good path to follow suit with the rifle.

 

[Formidilosus]

Have not shot the rifle much in the past few years.

A lot of this is preparation for rifle elk tags in the upcoming years. I’ve leaned a lot of “fundamentals” from archrey. Trying to establish a good path to follow suit with the rifle.

Like archery, practice is what works. How many arrows do you shoot a year? The same should be for rifles.


You need high round counts and consistent practice at, and past the range you will attempt a shot. Non of the cartridges you listed will allow you the practice and shooting volume required to be consistent at any range, let alone 800 yards. If you are serious about trying to shoot animals pst 300 yards, very best thing you could do is get a fast twist (1-8” or faster) 223 bolt gun, scope that actually works correctly, and two cases of ammo and shoot all of it this year in field practice at out to 800 yards, and learn to shoot and hit at those ranges.

Legitimately being able to consistently kill past 600 yards is going to be a couple thousand rounds a year in similar terrain and conditions to where you will hunt. Just buying a bigger cartridge is not going to lead to success.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Rifle is your last worry here. You have a capable rifle that’s decently easy shooting in .270, so go practice with it then upgrade when you’re competent at your desired yardages if needed.

 

[Rfogelman656]

Like archery, practice is what works. How many arrows do you shoot a year? The same should be for rifles.


You need high round counts and consistent practice at, and past the range you will attempt a shot. Non of the cartridges you listed will allow you the practice and shooting volume required to be consistent at any range, let alone 800 yards. If you are serious about trying to shoot animals pst 300 yards, very best thing you could do is get a fast twist (1-8” or faster) 223 bolt gun, scope that actually works correctly, and two cases of ammo and shoot all of it this year in field practice at out to 800 yards, and learn to shoot and hit at those ranges.

Legitimately being able to consistently kill past 600 yards is going to be a couple thousand rounds a year in similar terrain and conditions to where you will hunt. Just buying a bigger cartridge is not going to lead to success.

Oh, ok. Now you’re recommending that I learn to shoot.

 

[Rfogelman656]

Rifle is your last worry here. You have a capable rifle that’s decently easy shooting in .270, so go practice with it then upgrade when you’re competent at your desired yardages if needed.

.270 is great. Yea, we’ve had a lot of practice together, just not a lot in the past few years with my focus on archrey.

And while the .270 is a good round, I’ve become more aware that the velocity drops around that 400 yard mark and the bullet may not expand optimally.

And the Axis i’m shooting; well lets just say it is a good but not great gun. I’d like a great gun for my many years of hunting to come. Something I can grow into.

 

[Formidilosus]

Oh, ok. Now you’re recommending that I learn to shoot.

Yes, because it is all that actually matters. You didn’t ask what you need to do to competently kill animals at 800 yards; you asked which cartridge. Asking “which cartridge” before knowing what it takes to do so is putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Rfogelman656]

** I should have clarified a bit more. I want to be able to shoot 600-800. This does not mean I will 1) roll up and think I can shoot animals at this distance on gear alone 2) given the opportunity I would automatically take a shot at this distance. I just don’t want to feel gear automatically dq’s me from thinking about it. 3) follow up shots. like archrey, 100 yards is too far in most cases. Unless you’ve already got one in em. Given the opportunity I would send a second shot out of my initial comfortable range

I’m also not a guy that takes this journey lightly; I have an appreciation for gear that I will have for a long time.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Oh, ok. Now you’re recommending that I learn to shoot.

Same as my recommendation… Same recommendation you’ll get from anyone who consistently kills at “longer ranges”.

Consistently meaning multiple animals per year at the yardages you mentioned. It’s not easy and takes dedication, especially if you like killing animals and not wounding them or scaring them off. I’ve seen way too many inexperienced guys take shots they had no business taking while guiding.

Throwing a vitals size plate out at 500+ yardages in varying terrain with real field condition types or shots humbles just about every “hunter” or “shooter” that comes out to learn.

 

[Rfogelman656]

Yes, because it is all that actually matters. You didn’t ask what you need to do to competently kill animals at 800 yards; you asked which cartridge. Asking “which cartridge” before knowing what it takes to do so is putting the cart before the horse.

Then maybe you should have started with that line of thought by; recommending sometime closer to the 6.5 creed option and recommend I shoot the piss out of it for good measure.

Its the way in witch you offered “advice” that has rubbed me wrong. To me this came off as the stereotypical mod who jumps in just to shit on the new guy asking questions and trying to become more involved.

And now; while we are here on the topic; I disagree whole heartedly that “learning to shoot” is all that actually matters. Stopping power; however you define it; plays a large part.

 

[Formidilosus]

** I should have clarified a bit more. I want to be able to shoot 600-800. This does not mean I will 1) roll up and think I can shoot animals at this distance on gear alone 2) given the opportunity I would automatically take a shot at this distance. I just don’t want to feel gear automatically dq’s me from thinking about it. 3) follow up shots. like archrey, 100 yards is too far in most cases. Unless you’ve already got one in em. Given the opportunity I would send a second shot out of my initial comfortable range

I’m also not a guy that takes this journey lightly; I have an appreciation for gear that I will have for a long time.

Then my response above is the answer. None of the cartridges you listed are good or optimum for practice. Forget hunting for now, you need something that you can shoot 2,000 shots from this year. A fast twist 223 is the way. The absolute largest cartridge for that would be a 6.5cm.

I don’t know anyone that has bought a PRC/magnum/etc and actually shot it enough to gain any skill.

 

[Formidilosus]

Then maybe you should have started with that line of thought by; recommending sometime closer to the 6.5 creed option and recommend I shoot the piss out of it for good measure.

That’s is why I asked the questions I did in my first post.

Its the way in witch you offered “advice” that has rubbed me wrong. To me this came off as the stereotypical mod who jumps in just to shit on the new guy asking questions and trying to become more involved.

I am not a moderator.

And now; while we are here on the topic; I disagree whole heartedly that “learning to shoot” is all that actually matters. Stopping power; however you define it; plays a large part.

Please explain “stopping power” to me?


I have killed and seen killed hundreds of game animals between 400 and 800 yards, and shooting skill is by far the most important component to doing so. Until you have the skill, it doesn’t matter what cartridge you are shooting.

 

[Rfogelman656]

Same as my recommendation… Same recommendation you’ll get from anyone who consistently kills at “longer ranges”.

Consistently meaning multiple animals per year at the yardages you mentioned. It’s not easy and takes dedication, especially if you like killing animals and not wounding them or scaring them off. I’ve seen way too many inexperienced guys take shots they had no business taking while guiding.

Throwing a vitals size plate out at 500+ yardages in varying terrain with real field condition types or shots humbles just about every “hunter” or “shooter” that comes out to learn.

You too huh?

So as a guide; do you not see the irony that your job was probably built around the premise of putting guys who have no business being in the mountains in the position to take shots they have no business taking so you can get paid? Commmeeeee onnnn.

Sorry this is probably going to make some of the very good guides mad, but it was really meant as as an insult to you in particular.

You don’t know me; or my dedication. But it should be a hint that I’m asking for build advice rather than buying a 5k rifle and hiring a “guide”.

 

[J Batt]

I used to think I was gonna schlock bucks at 600-1200yards. I got all setup with long-range gun and scope. For practice I started setting up targets randomly in the backcountry at those ranges, cross canyon, finger to finger, up a drainage, and all sorts of realistic uncomfortable scenarios.
I used to feel pretty confident inside 1000yard at my usual target shooting spot. But my new goal was to get first round impacts inside a paper plate in any terrain. initially I had a couple of good days.
But shortly after I started my "realistic" training, I was humbled. The wind made a complete fool out of me. And I realized I cant afford the ammo and time needed to reliably kill past 500y.

Formidilosus advice on getting a 223 is about the best advice you will ever get for long range training and success. unless your rich...

 

[Journeyman]

You’re getting the best possible advice from a guy that should be at the top of your list of whom you should be seeking advice. Humble yourself a bit and accept his input.

If you’re in southwest montana let me know, we’ve got an awesome community of long range competitors and hunters.

 

[Rfogelman656]

That’s is why I asked the questions I did in my first post.





I am not a moderator.






Please explain “stopping power” to me?


I have killed and seen killed hundreds of game animals between 400 and 800 yards, and shooting skill is by far the most important component to doing so. Until you have the skill, it doesn’t matter what cartridge you are shooting.

By stopping power; i generally mean the combination of 1) kenetic energy measured in ft/lbs. 2) i also understand that velocity plays a large part in the expansion of the bullet and helps transfer more energy/do more damage. I’m no expert in terminology. as a simpleton; this makes sense to me. I’ve heard; again not an expert here,; but heard that bullet at longer distances and say 1600 fps will not open properly, and a well placed double lung may leave a small hole and not essentially collapse the lungs quick enough.

 

[fwafwow]

You too huh?

So as a guide; do you not see the irony that your job was probably built around the premise of putting guys who have no business being in the mountains in the position to take shots they have no business taking so you can get paid? Commmeeeee onnnn.

Sorry this is probably going to make some of the very good guides mad, but it was really meant as a ** in particular.

You don’t know me; or my dedication. But it should be a hint that I’m asking for build advice rather than buying a 5k rifle and hiring a “guide”.

Welcome to RS!

I suggest taking the advice - even if not exactly an answer to the question you posed - without reading negative intent into it. And if you do read it that way, you can always ask if that is what was intended.

You also may want to edit out or hold off on insults and name calling, even if encoded with initials. It often leads to a short membership and there is lots to be gained here.

If you haven’t read the 223 thread, you may also not realize that recommending you shoot one isn’t some form of hazing or talking down to put you in a junior or small caliber. I think that advice is given, and that cartridge (with the right bullet) is selected, by more and more members - including for elk.

 

[wind gypsy]

I used to think I was gonna schlock bucks at 600-1200yards. I got all setup with long-range gun and scope. For practice I started setting up targets randomly in the backcountry at those ranges, cross canyon, finger to finger, up a drainage, and all sorts of realistic uncomfortable scenarios.
I used to feel pretty confident inside 1000yard at my usual target shooting spot. But my new goal was to get first round impacts inside a paper plate in any terrain. initially I had a couple of good days.
But shortly after I started my "realistic" training, I was humbled. The wind made a complete fool out of me. And I realized I cant afford the ammo and time needed to reliably kill past 500y.

Formidilosus advice on getting a 223 for is about the best advice you will ever get for long range training and success. unless your rich...

This is my story too. I still have a few custom LR hunting builds that fit the bill of what the OP is asking for and a heavy gamer gun for matches, but I just never got as good as I planned when I actually lived in the west and it’s only getting worse now that I dont. If I wasnt getting the reps in then with $22/pound powder and 2 cent primers I damn sure wouldn’t get em now with factory magnum ammo.

@Rfogelman656 don’t take offense. The internet sells us on all this fancy shit and makes people think ethical 600-800 yard shots are a purchase and a couple hundred rounds of validation ammo away. It isn’t.

A tikka veil in PRC and a t3 lite in 223 will get you further than a custom IMO. You can modify the grip to get a good vertical rest for your hand. Don’t waste good money modifying your axis.

 

[Rfogelman656]

You’re getting the best possible advice from a guy that should be at the top of your list of whom you should be seeking advice. Humble yourself a bit and accept his input.

If you’re in southwest montana let me know, we’ve got an awesome community of long range competitors and hunters.

In an attempt to stand my ground. I’m trying to be humble and objective. I feel like the way in which the advice was given was done so in a condescending manner. And self admittedly I have little patience for that

If his advice was given in a matter to focus on rounds fired I would be more receptive. Thats why I threw in the 6.5 option. It would not be my first choice; but if someone wants to make the argument that shooting more rounds through that would provide more value than other options I am all ears and taking notes