Petition - OTC for Colorado Residents

[yak]

The reality is that Colorado OTC hunting is going away. Unlimited/uncapped OTC tags are not sustainable for many reasons and its very easy to come to this conclusion if you do your research. This petition is based on this assumption.

This petition is an attempt to preserve OTC hunting for residents and future generations of CO resident hunters. Similar to the structures in place in MT, ID, and WY for resident hunting privileges.

Signed and shared.

 

[stanginthe11s]

every town west of the divide would take a major loss in income if you lost tourism. its reality, if you think it isn't just drive around and ask any store or shop how much they make during hunting season vs off season. this does not just apply to CO but every state in the country. tourism is by far the largest economy in the world, it fuels everything.
what's a reality? that based on the #'s given nothing has changed in CO in 20 years? you guys just want this to be about NR, that's it. your own #'s show that the actual amount of hunters hasn't changed much, it's only the ratio of RES to NR. even if all NR left CO it will not change the fact that you guys are losing hunters. this is also why your economy will take a major hit, there aren't enough of you to make up the difference in dollars.
now, I'm not going to argue the overcrowding issue. yes, there are areas that are over run, and yes you guys deserve better access over a NR which is why I proposed a solution, but it no doubt got overlooked as it was probably too fair of an idea.
also, I'm just using the #'s from the petition so I will accept if I'm wrong in that area.
let me propose another solution, instead of fighting NR hunters maybe embrace them and work together to find a good solution that actually benefits all of us? after all, we are all the same in regard to our passion for wildlife.

 

[11boo]

The reality is that Colorado OTC hunting is going away. Unlimited/uncapped OTC tags are not sustainable for many reasons and its very easy to come to this conclusion if you do your research. This petition is based on this assumption.

This petition is an attempt to preserve OTC hunting for residents and future generations of CO resident hunters. Similar to the structures in place in MT, ID, and WY for resident hunting privileges.

Signed and shared.

That is exactly what needs to happen, eliminating otc, weight the draw to residents.

 

[Jethro]

Watch them leave it otc for residents and 5k tags per unit for non res to draw lol.

We know that's what will happen. I signed the petition. I'm a NR. I think residents should keep OTC. I think NR should be all draw. I also think the NR OTC cap or draw quota will be so large that most everyone will still get a tag. Sure maybe fewer tags available, but not enough to notice a difference in the field. CPW gets their money, NR get to hunt, Res get to hunt OTC and still be unhappy with overcrowding. Only problem with that is that's how it is already.

 

[Bubblehide]

Unlimited/uncapped OTC tags are not sustainable for many reasons ...

Other than having an unfilled cap, Ca has been doing this for decades, successfully. Granted the success rate is low, overcrowding is the norm... and the typical is true, 10% of the hunters fill 90% of the tags, year after year. But it gives everyone am opportunity to hunt. And yes, its open to non-residents. Lastly, yes, herd numbers are considered stable.

 

[sndmn11]

every town west of the divide would take a major loss in income if you lost tourism. its reality, if you think it isn't just drive around and ask any store or shop how much they make during hunting season vs off season. this does not just apply to CO but every state in the country. tourism is by far the largest economy in the world, it fuels everything.
what's a reality? that based on the #'s given nothing has changed in CO in 20 years? you guys just want this to be about NR, that's it. your own #'s show that the actual amount of hunters hasn't changed much, it's only the ratio of RES to NR. even if all NR left CO it will not change the fact that you guys are losing hunters. this is also why your economy will take a major hit, there aren't enough of you to make up the difference in dollars.
now, I'm not going to argue the overcrowding issue. yes, there are areas that are over run, and yes you guys deserve better access over a NR which is why I proposed a solution, but it no doubt got overlooked as it was probably too fair of an idea.
also, I'm just using the #'s from the petition so I will accept if I'm wrong in that area.
let me propose another solution, instead of fighting NR hunters maybe embrace them and work together to find a good solution that actually benefits all of us? after all, we are all the same in regard to our passion for wildlife.

Do you have the revenue numbers breaking down hunting, skiing, leafing, etc., contribution to "tourism", and further broken down into state of residency?

Most CO towns look deserted in hunting season compared to winter and summer.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Signed. I live in Florida

Also, I'm all for doing away with NR OTC in every state. Get rid of the casual hunters who don't plan ahead, and the point hoarders who have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Hnthrdr]

As a NR I do think that residents should be OTC. But I also think that residents want to limit NR too much. And the argument that I keep hearing over and over is "all the other western states do it this way". Comparing Colorado to other states isn't apples to apples. If Colorado wants to be like other western states maybe they need to get 1500 wolves like Idaho and 2000 grizzly bears like Montana, have no lion hunting like California and then get down to a elk population of 74,000 like Utah.

My point is that Colorado is a state that's not like other states and should be treated as such.

Brother I don’t know if you know this but we are marching down that pace at a sickening rate. Wolves are here, they will never be managed, let’s see how many wolves we have in 10 years, lion hunting is likely to be gone, I would actually welcome the grizz… would keep yuppies on their toes a bit. I think the residents perspective at least mine is that we need to get ahead of the 8 ball on this

 

[svivian]

Do you have the revenue numbers breaking down hunting, skiing, leafing, etc., contribution to "tourism", and further broken down into state of residency?

Most CO towns look deserted in hunting season compared to winter and summer.

Don't you love the NR telling us how busy our mountain towns are all year when they only come during hunting season?

 

[sndmn11]

Don't you love the NR telling us how busy our mountain towns are all year when they only come during hunting season?

I don't know where he lives. I'm also hoping there's a cool study he read with that break down because it would be interesting to see. I'd LOVE to see an economic impact study on Antonito after those units went to limited.

Our perspectives are products of our own experiences. If someone has only been somewhere during hunting season and sees others getting food and gas, maybe they think that's a revenue boom. My own experiences tell me I can't head to the mountains in I70 or 285 when the ski resorts are open or between memorial and labor days without a delay on the weekends. Easter to memorial day or labor day to Thanksgiving I can drive free.

When I worked patrol in one of these mountain towns, I could turn a DUI every other day summer or winter, but the mud seasons involved a lot of electronic investigation because there simply wasn't a population to police.

 

[stanginthe11s]

Do you have the revenue numbers breaking down hunting, skiing, leafing, etc., contribution to "tourism", and further broken down into state of residency?

I do not, as you should know that would be very hard to do in a realistic way. using just the #'s from the petition, we would have to figure out how many of those 45,000 NR hunters also come at other times of the year or contribute dollars in other ways.
most sensible people understand that money is money, and no matter how small you think it is it still makes a difference. there is also cause and effect, when you push something out there can be consequences that are unforeseen. we won't know what will happen until it happens.
look, it's your sandbox. if you guys want to fight in it, go for it. if you want to play in it, do it. if you're hell bent on burning it down, have at it, just don't cry to the world when you get what you want.
the kid in the sandbox only sees what's in front of him in the sandbox. step outside and you might see the whole picture. did anyone bother to ask why you need to petition for RES OTC? you fought to have OTC removed, now you want to backtrack because it doesn't fit your narrative. all people see is hunters divided, giving anti's ammunition to end us. the people that control our way of life are happy to see it gone, when you ask to remove something, they see it as a step towards that goal and there's no going back.
make no mistake, I do understand where you all are coming from, and I do agree with a lot of what's said. many people say they don't want it to be like the states in the east but understand that we have already been there and you're fighting the same fight the same way. why do you think you see an influx of NR? personally, I would rather hunt by your side than never hunt again.

 

[sndmn11]

I do not, as you should know that would be very hard to do in a realistic way. using just the #'s from the petition, we would have to figure out how many of those 45,000 NR hunters also come at other times of the year or contribute dollars in other ways.
most sensible people understand that money is money, and no matter how small you think it is it still makes a difference. there is also cause and effect, when you push something out there can be consequences that are unforeseen. we won't know what will happen until it happens.
look, it's your sandbox. if you guys want to fight in it, go for it. if you want to play in it, do it. if you're hell bent on burning it down, have at it, just don't cry to the world when you get what you want.
the kid in the sandbox only sees what's in front of him in the sandbox. step outside and you might see the whole picture. did anyone bother to ask why you need to petition for RES OTC? you fought to have OTC removed, now you want to backtrack because it doesn't fit your narrative. all people see is hunters divided, giving anti's ammunition to end us. the people that control our way of life are happy to see it gone, when you ask to remove something, they see it as a step towards that goal and there's no going back.
make no mistake, I do understand where you all are coming from, and I do agree with a lot of what's said. many people say they don't want it to be like the states in the east but understand that we have already been there and you're fighting the same fight the same way. why do you think you see an influx of NR? personally, I would rather hunt by your side than never hunt again.

I haven't fought for anything regarding OTC.

I asked if you had numbers to back up your statement that hunter "tourism" revenue is significant. It seems to be a hill that some folks stand on, but I've never seen it substantiated. I would be very interested when you do find that study and hope you share it.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Never heard of anyone fighting to have it removed, I have heard, and participated in surveys over the last couple years to address the insane over crowding that has become exponentially worse. Maybe the folks who live in the sandbox have a decent idea of what is going on and when your sandbox gets invaded by fire ants do you just hangout and take it or do you do something about to fix the issue? We are actively fixing the issue

 

[stanginthe11s]

sndmn11, I do not have the time to show you. I cannot teach you that things on a business scale do not work the same as a personal scale. while you may see it as a dollar, that dollar can be all the difference on a larger scale. don't assume that major loss only means closure, it can mean many things. don't assume hunters only buy hunting stuff. we don't know the books of any store or how close they may be from going under or turning into something else. sometimes a few hundred dollars from hunting season is all the difference to that store.​

we thought the same way here many years ago, we didn't need any of it. and in some respects, we were right. we traded the local stores for malls, closed the mom and pop hunting shops and turned them into a starbucks or DD and sold off most of our farmlands to less desirable people. guess we showed them, right? so you do that fight, I'm too tired to do it again. you're fight should not be with other hunters, right now you need to focus on what's coming from the west of you.

hnthrdr, I hear you and agree with you, but you need to remember that those surveys and things other hunters have said about both otc and overcrowding lead to a bigger picture, and the people who are in charge of that bigger picture are not like minded individuals. there's no guarantee they will take what you guys say in the way you mean it. that is why I say ask yourself why you have to petition for RES OTC. any hunter can agree that residents should absolutely have OTC access to their own lands, but clearly, the people in charge took what has been said the wrong way. so when you say you didn't fight for it, know that's not the way it was taken, and you may have indirectly caused this outcome. maybe the guys who burned a sandbox already know what happens.
I am only trying to help you guys see that there's more than meets the eye. it matters none to me what you do or how you do it. sndmn11 is right that our perspectives are products of our experiences, but learning from those experiences is what makes a difference in our future. I've said it before that your fight was wrong and I got the same responses and laughy faces, yet here we are again only now you're trying to fight to keep what you never should have lost to begin with. keep laughing.

and in case it matters, I did sign the petition despite our views because I choose to stand united not divided, hopefully more people get that concept. I hope you keep what's yours, good luck.

 

[Mish-pop]

Signed. I think that it's what's best for the wildlife and help to help preserve nature

 

[Mykolaivka887]

For federal land, there needs to be a nation wide application process to access it, with strict limits on how many can access it at any given time. This way we all have a fair chance to utilize our federal lands.

I wouldn't want a presidential appointee allocating big game tags. No thanks.

 

[Swampcruiser]

Hot take: Why dont all of us "out of state" folks quit giving o RMEF and such ? Why give money to a organization like that when CO, MT, ID etc can handle their own, charge us out the a** when we get to come hunt their managed resource?

 

[Rich M]

Signed. I live in Florida

Also, I'm all for doing away with NR OTC in every state. Get rid of the casual hunters who don't plan ahead, and the point hoarders who have their cake and eat it too.

There is nothing wrong with collecting points and having a target in mind. You make it sound bad to say, I'm gonna collect enough points to hunt "that unit" and keep saving for them.

It is a sacrifice and more folks might be happier if they sacrificed and saved a few extra points for a better hunt as opposed to the "it is better to just hunt" club who then bitch cause they are way far out of whack when it comes to having points. I'd rather do just 1 quality hunt in a decade than 5 lesser hunts or 9 crappy ones.

I already have to wait 3 yrs per permit down here in FL, and that's just for a 3-day or 5-day weekend in the swamp.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Do you have the revenue numbers breaking down hunting, skiing, leafing, etc., contribution to "tourism", and further broken down into state of residency?

Most CO towns look deserted in hunting season compared to winter and summer.

I drove through kremmling last week. It was a traffic jam in and out. Bikes, motorcycles, rv, jeeps. During hunting season you’ll see a few guys at the bar. They’re just parroting what they hear and what helps perpetuate the narrative that we need NR money.

 

[Rich M]

Hot take: Why dont all of us "out of state" folks quit giving o RMEF and such ? Why give money to a organization like that when CO, MT, ID etc can handle their own, charge us out the a** when we get to come hunt their managed resource?

Did you go and read the 90/10 stuff from last year?

CO is a great place to go hunt - lovely state. The pressure is not sustainable, something has to be done and as a NR, we don't pay the taxes or vote there.