NV auction tags conflict? NDOW chairman is in the pic? Raffle these tags, not auction!

[ladogg411]

Should Nevada follow Arizona and abolish the auction tags? Raffle them for similar money?

Wonder how the president of the NDOW commission would vote on that? That is him in this auction tag trophy pic.

Conflict of interest?

 

[MattB]

No, raffle tags generate far less revenue to support the resource.

How exactly is that a conflict of interest, or did the internet just tell you it is and how you should feel about it?

 

[buckpro]

whiney and jealous much?

 

[schmalzy]

Why the hate on the guy that bought the tag; Is it just because he was born into wealth or has he done something dishonorable?


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[Maddog58]

Lots of $$$$ from auction tags. I say keep them. Wish I had the money to buy one

 

[NVUplandHunter]

Should Nevada follow Arizona and abolish the auction tags? Raffle them for similar money?

Wonder how the president of the NDOW commission would vote on that? That is him in this auction tag trophy pic.

Conflict of interest?

the dude is the CHAIRMAN of the WILDLIFE COMMISSION. He has nothing to do with NDOW. He is appointed by the Governor and NDOW reports to the commission. get your facts straight holy crap.

 

[MuleyFever]

Should Nevada follow Arizona and abolish the auction tags?

Yes

 

[Pacific_Fork]

Yes. Theres not a single reason any publicly owned and managed game species belongs to the richest/highest bidder. All the great conservationist would be against this and predicted this similar kind of thing, Leopold, Teddy, etc.

I don’t buy that raffle tickets can’t make up for rid of auction. I don’t have it in front of me but I’ve seen the numbers they bring in and it’s in the hundred of thousands every year per state that does it.

 

[MattB]

Yes. Theres not a single reason any publicly owned and managed game species belongs to the richest/highest bidder. All the great conservationist would be against this and predicted this similar kind of thing, Leopold, Teddy, etc.

I don’t buy that raffle tickets can’t make up for rid of auction. I don’t have it in front of me but I’ve seen the numbers they bring in and it’s in the hundred of thousands every year per state that does it.

No offense, but you don’t have the numbers in front of you because they likely don’t exist. You can compare the revenue from states like AZ that both auction and raffle the same tag, and the auction tags generally out-raise the raffles 3x-4x. Never mind that raffling 2 of the same tag will not generate 2x the revenue due to demand cannibalization.

IMO this situation is similar to the defund the police movement we saw a few years back, a knee jerk over-reaction to a situation that would have been better addressed through minor tweaks to the existing system rather throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Edit: to put some numbers to it, the 2024 AZ desert sheep auction tag raised $430K and I have read the raffle tag raised $87.5K.

Desert Bighorn Sheep Tag Auctions and Raffles | Huntin' Fool

Still one of the most sought after big game species in the West, a Desert Bighorn sheep tag is tough to obtain no matter what! Learn about your opportunities.

www.huntinfool.com

 

[ladogg411]

the dude is the CHAIRMAN of the WILDLIFE COMMISSION. He has nothing to do with NDOW. He is appointed by the Governor and NDOW reports to the commission. get your facts straight holy crap.

Guide pictured next to the auction tag hunter is the Chairman of the NBWC. Nevada Board of Wildlife Commissioners. The NBWC has everything to do with NDOW. Guides all their actions.

In their YouTube name and elsewhere, the NBWC refers to themselves casually as "NDOW Commission" and I took that same liberty.

 

[NVUplandHunter]

Guide pictured next to the auction tag hunter is the Chairman of the NBWC. Nevada Board of Wildlife Commissioners. The NBWC has everything to do with NDOW. Guides all their actions.

In their YouTube name and elsewhere, the NBWC refers to themselves casually as "NDOW Commission" and I took that same liberty.

man every time i look at the picture you created it makes me cringe. you kinda sound like a little kid throwing a fit because some other kids got something you wanted and you cant have it. I think it might be time to grow a little and stop being so concerned with what other men do with their lives.

in the end you're only mad at the actions because you cant play in that rich mans game. if you were casting offers too this post wouldnt exist.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

No offense, but you don’t have the numbers in front of you because they likely don’t exist. You can compare the revenue from states like AZ that both auction and raffle the same tag, and the auction tags generally out-raise the raffles 3x-4x. Never mind that raffling 2 of the same tag will not generate 2x the revenue due to demand cannibalization.

IMO this situation is similar to the defund the police movement we saw a few years back, a knee jerk over-reaction to a situation that would have been better addressed through minor tweaks to the existing system rather throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Edit: to put some numbers to it, the 2024 AZ desert sheep auction tag raised $430K and I have read the raffle tag raised $87.5K.

Desert Bighorn Sheep Tag Auctions and Raffles | Huntin' Fool

Still one of the most sought after big game species in the West, a Desert Bighorn sheep tag is tough to obtain no matter what! Learn about your opportunities.

www.huntinfool.com

Wyoming Super tag has raised over 12 million since 2013, 1.5 Million last this year alone. Don't have much time to look into the rest right now. There could be tweaks in every state to make up for the lost auction revenue, easily. And no offense taken, but right back at you with the comparison to the defund the police movement. Very confused by that comparison. Not even in the same realm. Bottom line is I dont support trophy OIL species going to the highest bidder. Neither did the very people who are responsible for the fact that we have these opportunities in the first place. The creation of the North American model of Wildlife conservation was to, in part, prohibit such things.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

man every time i look at the picture you created it makes me cringe. you kinda sound like a little kid throwing a fit because some other kids got something you wanted and you cant have it. I think it might be time to grow a little and stop being so concerned with what other men do with their lives.

in the end you're only mad at the actions because you cant play in that rich mans game. if you were casting offers too this post wouldnt exist.

I know this isnt directed at me but I'm tired of reading these kinds of comments without sharing a different perspective. The jealousy argument is so lame and a cop out for the lack of critical thinking. I've been on sheep hunts where tags were drawn through lottery. Best time of my life, you couldnt pay me 50K to go along with some rich lazy (or doesnt have the time) smuck to watch him kill a ram with a 10k rifle he didnt build, rams he didnt scout, etc. Its gross. My freezer is full year in and out and the wall of trophies continues. There's no jealousy, just concern towards a segment of the resource being withheld from the general public for the highest bidder.

With that said there probably is jealous people. Wait not probably, there def is in hunting. I've experienced it. But not all arguments come from it.

The only place this model works and is warranted is Africa, without it every dangerous big game species would be killed off. Another question I wonder about is if this money generated by auction, and not raffle or general F&G funds, was so good for wildlife then why are Mule Deer and Sheep doing so poorly? Too me whether an auction tag generates 500K and the raffle system half of that its not making a big difference in the grand scheme. We can't auction our way into more habitat. The irony of the richest people in the US buying these tags at the same time as likely contributing to development on critical habitat for the species they "hunt" is, well, ironic. I can say that because I know developers who have bought these tags. Flame away!

 

[JeffP_Or]

.... and the auction tags generally out-raise the raffles 3x-4x. Never mind that raffling 2 of the same tag will not generate 2x the revenue due to demand cannibalization.

Edit: to put some numbers to it, the 2024 AZ desert sheep auction tag raised $430K and I have read the raffle tag raised $87.5K.....

All good points. Oregon has both and I believe the auctions pull more money - some of which goes to the hosting oganization and the rest goes to ODFW for that species [as I recall]; so here, not absolutely everything goes to that species and possibly might leave the state depending on the benefitting host organization.

I do think the comparison becomes a bit skewed when we think raffles will never match auctions even if auction tags were to go away. It may be that IF the auction tags go away AND the raffle tags remain unlimited, those same auction participants will simply toss their money to the raffles and 'buy them out'; perhaps a bigger gamble but in many areas, the auction folks have already figured out it is a cheaper game to buy out the raffles than bid up an auction.

I've heard auction winners/participants admit this. But as long as there are raffles - unlimited entry or not - I believe the raffle income would rise significantly once the auction guys' guides locate a big critter and start selling it to the possible tag holder. Will the monies raised REPLACE the auction income or equal the combined current auction & raffle income; tough to tell.

One thing that isn't tough to tell - I certainly will not be in an auction! But I do put a few bucks into the raffles!

 

[Jimmy]

I like the bigger money the auction tags raise, can we change something else?

Some ideas

- Have to hunt without a guide
- Can't hunt any season with any weapon. Must follow the rules everyone else has in that season. No rifle in archery.
- Can't have more than 3 people with you.
- Every day you don't fill your tag it's another 10K for conservation
- Have to pack out the animal without any help
- Add yours here __________

I mean, just spitballing here. If they hunted like this and still raised more money than raffles I'm fine with selling a couple tags a year. Sometimes these 'hunts' seem too canned and the animal has zero chance. Bleh

 

[MattB]

Wyoming Super tag has raised over 12 million since 2013, 1.5 Million last this year alone. Don't have much time to look into the rest right now. There could be tweaks in every state to make up for the lost auction revenue, easily. And no offense taken, but right back at you with the comparison to the defund the police movement. Very confused by that comparison. Not even in the same realm. Bottom line is I dont support trophy OIL species going to the highest bidder. Neither did the very people who are responsible for the fact that we have these opportunities in the first place. The creation of the North American model of Wildlife conservation was to, in part, prohibit such things.

It seems like you may be putting words in the mouths of the creators of the NA wildlife model, given Shane Mahoney - a noted supporter of the model - disagrees.

“While some may find this type of conservation funding contrary to the North American Conservation Model, the Model’s renowned spokesman, Shane Mahoney, disagrees, noting that the Model encourages states, provinces, and tribal/First Nations to fund wildlife agencies in the most effective manner. Allowing a few individuals passionate about a wildlife species to fund the majority of an agency’s budget for that species with very limited auction and raffle permits is the most effective, keeping pace with the increasing management costs for that species.”

And to the defund the police point, we now live in a knee jerk society, where if there an issue with something the automatic reaction to many is to do just the opposite. I personally think that is a fool’s errand. Better to take a measured approach to address the specific issues. Don’t like that the same people are buying these tags? Implement a waiting period or make the OIL. Don’t like that the auction tags holder have the full year to hunt? Make the tags only good during general seasons. The answer IMO isn’t to screw wildlife by pissing away hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue over the haughty notion of democratizing the process to re-allocate a single tag per species. Used properly, those funds can be used to add a multiple of public draw tags.

Auction vs. Raffle Tags: Should States Stop Selling Big-Game Tags to the Highest Bidder?

Arizona is considering changing its big-game tag auction model for something more accessible to all hunters. Will that sacrifice too much funding for wildlife?

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[ladogg411]

man every time i look at the picture you created it makes me cringe. you kinda sound like a little kid throwing a fit because some other kids got something you wanted and you cant have it. I think it might be time to grow a little and stop being so concerned with what other men do with their lives.

in the end you're only mad at the actions because you cant play in that rich mans game. if you were casting offers too this post wouldnt exist.

Of the 4 guys in the disgusting picture, which one are you?

Too much to ask that a political appointee (commissioner) should not be too cozy with the auction tag he authorized?

 

[CorbLand]

I mean, just spitballing here. If they hunted like this and still raised more money than raffles I'm fine with selling a couple tags a year. Sometimes these 'hunts' seem too canned and the animal has zero chance. Bleh

I think the optics of it all is what causes the biggest grief.

You have some dude that buys a tag, hires a guide service, shows up for a couple days, kills the animal and leaves before its even off the mountain. Thats what most people have a problem with.

Personally, I think they should be a raffle or it should be a system where people bid on the tag and have to pay what they bid whether they are the highest bidder or not. The argument for these is always "they are supporting conservation." or some version of that. Lets see how much they support it when there is no guarantee of the tag at the end.

 

[wapitibob]

Of the 4 guys in the disgusting picture, which one are you?

Too much to ask that a political appointee (commissioner) should not be too cozy with the auction tag he authorized?

Nothing wrong with asking but your juvenile comments in picture remove any credibility to your cause.

 

[Maddog58]

Don’t really think it’s fair to bash on the tag holder about his hunting. We have no idea how hard and how many days he hunted for this ram. Just because he hired a guide doesn’t make him a schmuck.