Is AZ PointGuard PLUS a scam?

[bozeman]

With this much whining, has to be an archerytalk transplant.......

 

[Steve O]

It is my 100% fault because I could have reviewed the application and I could have called AZDGF to clarify just about anything. I still maintain that the definition of a draw cycle it is not in the regulations and AZ could do better. Call it blame, crying, complaining, criticism, or whatever makes you feel righteous. Ill be right here reading your blaming, crying, complaining, and criticism.

Dude. Put the shovel down. You made a mistake; take some responsibility. You are making more mistakes trying to justify it. The smartest move you could make here is apologize and shut this down then start a new thread on the same topic with a less accusatory tone…unless you just crave conflict and clicks. The only thing that will save this one is the meme gang coming to the rescue.

 

[bozeman]

Was waiting for an invitation to start!

 

[dsotm]

I am not sure if AZ allows individual applications for a group hunt. This is something I will look into.

They do not.

I'll say it again though, take the L and move on, you're making yourself look incredibly childish and stupid. The draw application makes it explicitly clear what you are applying for, this is not a failure at the AZ level. Your buddy is either blind or stupid as well.

 

[Scoot]

Dude. Put the shovel down. You made a mistake; take some responsibility. You are making more mistakes trying to justify it. The smartest move you could make here is apologize and shut this down then start a new thread on the same topic with a less accusatory tone…unless you just crave conflict and clicks. The only thing that will save this one is the meme gang coming to the rescue.

Steve O- prepare to be called righteous! Haha. No doubt this thread is a perfect target to be victim of the meme gang.

 

[Steve O]

Steve O- prepare to be called righteous! Haha. No doubt this thread is a perfect target to be victim of the meme gang.

 

[Dawg In Montana]

 

[Ultracarry]

If you put in and they offer you the opportunity to pay for point guard or point guard plus it means that you no longer have point guard plus - easy as that . They would be scamming you if you could buy it every draw cycle and keep it a secret but they are basically saying do you want this or not by allowing you the opportunity to purchase it .

 

[TheCougar]

Donate the tag...

FWIW, I don't think its a scam. You didn't read the fine print, which we have all done at some point in our lives. I've been on the receiving end of bad deals that ultimately were my fault.

On a personal note, about 6 years ago I had a trophy bull tag in AZ with PG. I can't remember the exact timing, but I think I had my ATV loaded up on Wednesday night to drive 16 hours on the day before opening day or something like that. I was pulling my ATV ramps, which is literally the LAST thing before I started driving and I catastrophically threw out my back... it was bad. It was too late to mail the tag back and use PG. I called the Springerville area G&F office (the closest one to TX) and explained the situation. After a bunch of pleading and begging, I got the world's nicest woman on the phone who stayed in the office late the next day while I popped pain killers and prednisone and drove 14 hours to the AZGFD office to turn the tag in person way after closing time, the night before opening day. She stayed late at work to let me use my PG and saved 15 years or so worth of points, and she clearly could have told me to pound sand, but didn't. So no, I don't think its a scam at all. I sent her flowers while I laid around and recovered for a month.

 

[pirogue]

No it is not a scam, you made a mistake.

X2.

 

[Extrapale]

For those of you who think it is not a scam, justify your reasoning rather than making a 3 word comment. Go on the AZ pointguard page and tell us why you believe it is not a scam. Why is it clear to some but not others? I am simply asking questions. The incentive is there. AZ could allow you to return tags w/o PG, but they choose not to. Is PG to scam you out of money? Points? Both?

And yes, it is not about the antlers. It's about the pride and gratification behind those antlers. That the effort spent paid off. I do not think many would disagree that it is easier to kill a cow than a big bull. Ask yourself if there is more satisfaction in coming home with a 400+ bull or a young cow. They both fill the freezer.

Thank you to the person who suggested a donation to AZ Wounded Warrior. That may make it all worth it.

You should be using an application service

 

[Verdehunter]

Every year someone screws up their application and every year they blame it on G&F and the draw system. It seems to be the American way these days. Blame everybody else.

 

[dg96]

Every year someone screws up their application and every year they blame it on G&F and the draw system. It seems to be the American way these days. Blame everybody else.

I check and recheck before submitting. But if I ever screw it up I'll blame non residents.

 

[TXCO]

I never bought point guard but I definitely didnt realize it went against all draw cycles. I assumed it was 3 years too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Romytfd]

Like some others here, I apply to almost all western states, every year, for all big game species, trying to either amass a pile preference/bonus points or get lucky. It takes a great deal of money, effort, and dedication to understand the nuances for each states draw requirements, to avoid missing application deadlines and to protect those points. And it is a stressful game. It is a game where it is not difficult to lose your points. A simple act like missing consecutive applications can cause your points to vanish in a big expensive heart breaking cloud of smoke. I recently lost all of my AZ elk points to a simple oversite. I am now 46 years old and do not have enough time to accrue the points I once had and still be able to do a good packout. Poof, dream AZ elk hunt gone for good, just like that.

This year a buddy and I decided to apply as a group to a premier super-secret AZ elk unit for a once in a life archery elk hunt. We applied, he filled out the application like we have done before, life was good, until the results came out. He called me to tell me he screwed up and accidently applied for a cow tag. We now have 2 cow tags in a killer unit and 0 points. I want to be clear that we share equal responsibility with this mistake. If my points were important, I could have spent 2 minutes to verify the application was correct. The previous year I had purchased PointGuard Plus which is valid for 3 draw cycles. I instinctively assumed for years 1 draw cycle = 1 year. I paid dearly for this mistake.

PointGuard Plus is a program you can buy into that allows you to be able to return a tag and points restored for any reason for all eligible big game species for 3 draw cycles. It is important to understand what a draw cycle is and isn't, because Arizona Game and Fish does not explicitly tell you. There are 3 "big game" draw cycles in 1 year that deduct from your allotment of 3 draw cycles. Essentially, PointGuard Plus is good for 1 year only. Remember this if nothing else.

Is AZ Game and Fish intentionally vague to scam people from their earned points to combat point creep? Are they intentionally vague to avoid the regulations associated with making PointGuard look like an insurance policy? Who knows, but I do know it would be easy for AZ to clarify PointGuard Plus is an annual program rather than using some underdefined draw cycle concept. At a minimum, AZ should try their hardest to clarify common misconceptions and misunderstandings with the programs they offer. We are dedicated to them and their animals, they need to return the favor.

It's been on my mind, this is how I chose to deal with it, sorry for all the words, and I sincerely hope someone reads this and this information prevents someone from losing their coveted AZ points.

Few lessons learned to protect your points (and additional tips). Please correct me if I am wrong, as I am sure you will.

• PointGuard Plus is good for 1 year (or 3 "big game" draw cycles).
• PointGuard Plus can be purchased after you fill out an application, up to the draw cycle deadline.
• A draw cycle will be removed from your PointGuard Plus allotment of 3 draw cycles, regardless if you apply in that draw cycle or not.
• Use AI to develop intelligent questions and call those fish and game departments until you understand everything. Those people at the game depts are usually helpful, informative, and well trained.
• Double check those applications for the correct units, hunt dates, type of weapon, species and sex.
• Check that application your buddy filled out, no matter how good he is at killing big animals. Mistakes are made easily. Spend 10 seconds to have him text a photo of the application, it's that easy.
• Don't be me, apply early, seriously. Nothing sucks more than to apply late on the day of the deadline to realize the deadline is at 5 pm, not at midnight like you assumed, and now you only have 15 minutes to apply (watch out for New Mexico). This is an easy way to make terrible mistakes.
• Use GoHunt to export the draw deadlines into your work and personal calendar. Never miss another deadline, your points depend on it in some states. (Nevada, Montana, Colorado and Utah want your points)
• Apply, apply, apply. Luck has happened to me.
• Set aside a secret bank account that you use only for big game applications, and don't tell your wife about it. She won't understand.
• Make your complaints heard. They serve us.

Draw cycle deadlines are:
Winter (~Feb) Draw Cycle: Elk, Antelope
Summer (~Jun) Draw Cycle: Turkey, Sheep, Deer, Bison, Javelina
Fall (~Oct) Draw Cycle: Turkey, Bison, Javelina, Bear

Yep, I’ve made that mistake myself—it happens. I mixed up the Unit 11M bull tag and ended up putting us in for a cow hunt. My buddies weren’t too happy, but they had Point Guard and were able to turn their tags back in and regain their points.
I decided to keep mine. I’d already taken elk with a rifle and muzzleloader, but never with a bow, and I wanted that challenge. I also wanted to try a solo hunt and do it my way.
It ended up being one of the best experiences I’ve had in the field. I had bulls come in to 20 yards and even had antelope walk right past my hide. That kind of close-range interaction is something you don’t forget—it’s a different level compared to any other method.
Now I just put in for my own tag and focus on making the most of every opportunity. At 57, I’m not worried about waiting around on points—I want to hunt every chance I get. Archery is something I’ll keep doing, but the bigger picture is getting out there, learning, and enjoying every hunt, no matter how it comes together.
So if something doesn’t go as planned, make the best of it—you might end up with a better experience than you expected.