New developments coming this summer

[fngTony]

I’m just going off the photos, but it appears that you used the grid fleece in the sleeves and Evolve in the body and hood. If this is in fact the case, I’m just curious why you made that decision versus just using Evolve throughout the whole jacket?

@Mark at EXO @Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals I was going to ask this same question. I have something from OR that is mapped like he mentioned above which I find very effective, hopefully the OV is similar and less expensive.

 

[Mark at EXO]

@Mark at EXO @Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals I was going to ask this same question. I have something from OR that is mapped like he mentioned above which I find very effective, hopefully the OV is similar and less expensive.

I'll speak for myself and let Brigham weigh in with his perspective. When I started talking with OV about an active mid-layer (2 years ago), the only experience I had with Alpha/Evolve was the original Ambient. I really liked that piece, but I found it to be too warm at times, and also bulky in certain ways. I was intrigued by the idea of combining a grid fleece to increase breathability and reduce bulk in key areas — especially between the arms and torso, and the lower front half.

Off the top of my head, I can think of 4 versions of prototypes I have used, which have had different patterns of body mapping and ratios of grid and Evolve. The final version has more areas of Evolve than what is shown in the photos I shared earlier, but still keeps grid in key areas.

 

[AOberti]

Thanks Anthony!

Would you say that these pants have more stretch than the Kutana? I had to size up in my Kutana's from my typical 32 to a 34 in order to accommodate the lack of stretch through the seat and upper thighs. I do like the idea of something a little more taper fit than the Kutana's (at least sized up for me) but much tighter around the calf and ankle idk that i would be a fan of, and I don't exactly have big calves. I'm hoping that these pants are on par with the lightness/breathability of the Kutana rather than more on the side of the Guide pants; personally the Guide pants are much too warm for basically anything that isn't sub freezing and low output (I sweat too bad in the Guide, Axis, Talus; the warmest I go to is the Sitka Timberline or Attack).

I would think given the specs on the Alpine down jacket that it would be substantially warmer than the SD Pro, as it has far more down and not much less of a face fabric. But if it is that much warmer than the Grumman at only 3.3oz heavier, it will be a no brainer in my mind. Interesting that it blocked the wind better considering the face fabric difference but that may lend itself to the baffle designs. Did you think the fit was more oversized similar to the SD Pro or more streamlined like the Grumman? I find that my Grumman is about as small as I would want it given its sized the same as all my other top layers (Large) and I could almost need to size up to accommodate much more underneath.

With the fleece were you rocking just a simple sun-hoody or like a Sitka CORE LW underneath? I started this last year layering with the Brynje merino stuff Steve has talked about (tank/SS/LS based on conditions) first and layered over with the CORE LW and I was super happy with that base combo. After that I've been doing either the Ambient UL60, 100 Vest, or 100 Hooded jacket and its about perfect but I do find its hard to decide between the UL60 vs Vest in Sept/early Oct; and the Vest vs Jacket in Nov. I'm hoping this fleece will be the obvious answer to pretty much whenever being a 75gr, provided it is mapped well and breathes accordingly; and then I can pepper in the Vest over it as needed.

Appreciate your time and response man!

Kevin
Great questions. I run a 32 in Katana and also run a 32 in the OV pant. I find in this scenario, the Katana fits tighter, especially in the thighs! I would say the OV pant is every bit as light and breathable as the Katana. The big difference is, the Katana(much like Prana) tends to stretch out after a day or two of constant field use; the OV didn't appear to do that at all. As for the taper on the lower legs, it is by no means tight, but it seems to fit perfectly around your boot and not get baggy and sloppy. As for warmth, I am going to say its about as warm as a Katana or Attack....or somewhere right in the middle.

Regarding the Alpine jacket, yes its warmer than the SD Pro, but it also fits similar to a SD Pro where its comfortable to have a few layers underneath. The Alpine jacket is NOT like the Grumman, which has a more snug fit. I think the Grumman is still a nice down coat, but more for early season when temps are not super cold.

The fleece is interesting. I used it alone, with nothing else, in early season scouting in NV and it seemed to breath well and I didn't get overly hot with it. However, on that same trip, when temps dropped at night, I layered a synthetic base under it, and it was super warm. I was uncertain of this piece in the beginning and grew to love it with more use. I think its super cool the way it uses the grid fleece in the lower arms and torso as its very comfortable and layers exceptionally well under a coat. I'm REALLY picky about materials and how they layer with certain pieces and I hate when pieces feel like they stick together or bunch up. The OV fleece is really good in this situation and I fully intend to buy a couple of them for both me and my boys when the final version gets released.

Hope this helps and feels free to ask any more questions.

 

[fngTony]

I'll speak for myself and let Brigham weigh in with his perspective. When I started talking with OV about an active mid-layer (2 years ago), the only experience I had with Alpha/Evolve was the original Ambient. I really liked that piece, but I found it to be too warm at times, and also bulky in certain ways. I was intrigued by the idea of combining a grid fleece to increase breathability and reduce bulk in key areas — especially between the arms and torso, and the lower front half.

Off the top of my head, I can think of 4 versions of prototypes I have used, which have had different patterns of body mapping and ratios of grid and Evolve. The final version has more areas of Evolve than what is shown in the photos I shared earlier, but still keeps grid in key areas.

Any word on the weight?

 

[desertdwellerdyl]

I'll speak for myself and let Brigham weigh in with his perspective. When I started talking with OV about an active mid-layer (2 years ago), the only experience I had with Alpha/Evolve was the original Ambient. I really liked that piece, but I found it to be too warm at times, and also bulky in certain ways. I was intrigued by the idea of combining a grid fleece to increase breathability and reduce bulk in key areas — especially between the arms and torso, and the lower front half.

Off the top of my head, I can think of 4 versions of prototypes I have used, which have had different patterns of body mapping and ratios of grid and Evolve. The final version has more areas of Evolve than what is shown in the photos I shared earlier, but still keeps grid in key areas.

Any chance a more durable exterior will be used compared to the Ambient? I know it's a mid-layer but my current Sitka Ambient snags on everything. It's the lighestest, most comfortable, warm piece I own but I legitamately cannot wear it as a standalone piece without a shell here in southern AZ.

 

[Mark at EXO]

Any word on the weight?

My latest pre-production sample in a size Large TALL is 10.6oz

Any chance a more durable exterior will be used compared to the Ambient? I know it's a mid-layer but my current Sitka Ambient snags on everything. It's the lighestest, most comfortable, warm piece I own but I legitamately cannot wear it as a standalone piece without a shell here in southern AZ.

Pretty sure Ambient is a 20D, whereas the OV is using a 30D. I can't speak for S AZ, but I've been in quite a bit of brush (AK) and haven't had issues with durability. That said, it is a breathable mid-layer, not a brush-busting shell.

 

[fngTony]

My latest pre-production sample in a size Large TALL is 10.6oz

Good to hear, that’s 3.5 less than my XL from OR.

 

[Refugium]

If Exo vouches for this gear, that is all I need to know. Sold! LOL

 

[Alpine4x4]

Been waiting to see the final version of this puffy since seeing it in Exos youtube series. Looked like a solid piece on those Alaska hunts.

 

[K_pem]

I'll speak for myself and let Brigham weigh in with his perspective. When I started talking with OV about an active mid-layer (2 years ago), the only experience I had with Alpha/Evolve was the original Ambient. I really liked that piece, but I found it to be too warm at times, and also bulky in certain ways. I was intrigued by the idea of combining a grid fleece to increase breathability and reduce bulk in key areas — especially between the arms and torso, and the lower front half.

Off the top of my head, I can think of 4 versions of prototypes I have used, which have had different patterns of body mapping and ratios of grid and Evolve. The final version has more areas of Evolve than what is shown in the photos I shared earlier, but still keeps grid in key areas.

Have you used the Sitka UL60? I'm envisioning that this piece will be VERY similar to it with the mapping of the fleece vs the Evolve. But I am hoping that they kept the Evolve in the hood vs the UL60 which did not. Really in my mind you only want/need the grid fleece on the back, lower maybe 1/3 and underarm areas, and lower waist (where a pack belt would ride).

 

[K_pem]

Kevin
Great questions. I run a 32 in Katana and also run a 32 in the OV pant. I find in this scenario, the Katana fits tighter, especially in the thighs! I would say the OV pant is every bit as light and breathable as the Katana. The big difference is, the Katana(much like Prana) tends to stretch out after a day or two of constant field use; the OV didn't appear to do that at all. As for the taper on the lower legs, it is by no means tight, but it seems to fit perfectly around your boot and not get baggy and sloppy. As for warmth, I am going to say its about as warm as a Katana or Attack....or somewhere right in the middle.

Regarding the Alpine jacket, yes its warmer than the SD Pro, but it also fits similar to a SD Pro where its comfortable to have a few layers underneath. The Alpine jacket is NOT like the Grumman, which has a more snug fit. I think the Grumman is still a nice down coat, but more for early season when temps are not super cold.

The fleece is interesting. I used it alone, with nothing else, in early season scouting in NV and it seemed to breath well and I didn't get overly hot with it. However, on that same trip, when temps dropped at night, I layered a synthetic base under it, and it was super warm. I was uncertain of this piece in the beginning and grew to love it with more use. I think its super cool the way it uses the grid fleece in the lower arms and torso as its very comfortable and layers exceptionally well under a coat. I'm REALLY picky about materials and how they layer with certain pieces and I hate when pieces feel like they stick together or bunch up. The OV fleece is really good in this situation and I fully intend to buy a couple of them for both me and my boys when the final version gets released.

Hope this helps and feels free to ask any more questions.

That is super helpful man!

I'm hoping I can fit a 32 waist in the OV pant as with the Kutana's and sizing up I end up with all the extra waist material bunched up under my belt in order to get the legs/ass with enough room. Idk that I would want a pant any warmer than the Kutana for archery season but I get that it has to kinda hit that happy middle ground; I run the Kutana basically all September and early October, the Attacks get a little warm for me most of the time in Sept.

Alpine jacket sounds like it will be on the money! It may not be as light as the Grumman but again, for a 3.3oz difference and significant warmth, I'm thinking it may replace my Grumman all together.

I will be super interested to see how well temp regulating the fleece is. I agree, I hate how some fabrics just don't layer well together (like merino under a grid fleece) so that will be nice with that face fabric keeping everything streamlined.

Appreciate your time man.

 

[K_pem]

Any chance a more durable exterior will be used compared to the Ambient? I know it's a mid-layer but my current Sitka Ambient snags on everything. It's the lighestest, most comfortable, warm piece I own but I legitamately cannot wear it as a standalone piece without a shell here in southern AZ.

Doesn't everything snag in AZ? haha. I've never had any issues with my Ambient pieces in the N Idaho brushy hell holes, but were admittedly more intertwined with brush and less sticky/poky shit.

 

[Refugium]

My latest pre-production sample in a size Large TALL is 10.6oz


Pretty sure Ambient is a 20D, whereas the OV is using a 30D. I can't speak for S AZ, but I've been in quite a bit of brush (AK) and haven't had issues with durability. That said, it is a breathable mid-layer, not a brush-busting shell.

My latest pre-production sample in a size Large TALL is 10.6oz


Pretty sure Ambient is a 20D, whereas the OV is using a 30D. I can't speak for S AZ, but I've been in quite a bit of brush (AK) and haven't had issues with durability. That said, it is a breathable mid-layer, not a brush-busting shell.

How would you rate the durability of the

I'll speak for myself and let Brigham weigh in with his perspective. When I started talking with OV about an active mid-layer (2 years ago), the only experience I had with Alpha/Evolve was the original Ambient. I really liked that piece, but I found it to be too warm at times, and also bulky in certain ways. I was intrigued by the idea of combining a grid fleece to increase breathability and reduce bulk in key areas — especially between the arms and torso, and the lower front half.

Off the top of my head, I can think of 4 versions of prototypes I have used, which have had different patterns of body mapping and ratios of grid and Evolve. The final version has more areas of Evolve than what is shown in the photos I shared earlier, but still keeps grid in key areas.

How would you rate the durability of the Vantage puffy? Whether it is alder thicket or southwestern scrub oak, a baller puffy that could handle some abuse would be a gamechanger.

 

[Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals]

Appreciate the questions here. First thing I'll say is I think I'll be able to address a lot of these questions in detail on a podcast, so look for that in the next 1-2 months.

Second thing, I have a difficult time being brief when talking about product design and how it applies in the field. Because I feel like if it's worth even asking or discussing, that I should give the most in depth and informative answer I can. It's a tough thing to balance, but I do want anyone asking to have the right information for them to make an informed decision on how any given piece of gear might be relatable their preferences or needs in the mountains.

Regarding the Primaloft Evolve mapping and the face fabric used in those areas - because there have been a couple questions about that. The Pursuit Hybrid Fleece is an ACTIVE insulating piece for cold conditions. If the conditions warrant it's use - meaning it's cold enough to need it while one is exerting himself - then breathability is paramount. This is the precedent that this piece is designed on. Through testing several variations of Polartec Alpha and Primaloft Evolve - ranging from completely naked Alpha to completely covered Alpha and/or Evolve - we found that completely naked Alpha has such a narrow use case that it is not useful enough over a broad enough range of conditions that is was something we wanted to move forward with. There were too many condition sets where any existence of wind rendered the piece useless on its own. The transverse was also found to be the case with completely covered Alpha/Evolve. It was simply too warm in too many condition sets, and not breathable enough.

For this piece to truly perform in cold conditions as a piece we can just leave on for hours and days we had to target a balance of maximizing breathability and adequate wind resistance. Wind resistance and breathability work against each other. BUT, the priority for this piece if breathability, since it is an ACTIVE piece. Our target is maximizing breathability while maintaining a level of wind resistance in specific areas to make this piece effective in a useable range of cold conditions. Effective at what? Maintaining enough body heat, while managing body moisture via breathability and drying out.

Any quality or property that would make this piece more wind resistant, warmer, or the face fabric over the Evolve portions more durable, would make this piece less effective at being what it is intended to be. This is just the performance target we aimed for.

Every piece of gear has a balance of tradeoffs, compromises, and benefits. And I understand as a user and consumer that it's easy to start looking for all the things we want something to do for us, while losing sight of what that thing is supposed to do for us in the first place. An analogy I like to convey comes from Formula 1 racing. Specifically the tires on an F1 car. What is their job - priority #1? I'd say it's to maintain traction so the car can put power to the ground to keep the car on the track while moving forward through the track at the fastest speed possible. But it sure would be nice if the tires lasted longer and had longer life right? That would save some money and maybe even mean the driver didn't have to go into pit to change out tires. Those things may be true, but they are lesser or even non-existent priorities because the properties that would enable the tires to last longer or be more durable detract from the tire performing it's #1 job.

To be clear, we're not claiming to have developed the F1 car of apparel, I just like the analogy!

 

[AOberti]

That is super helpful man!

I'm hoping I can fit a 32 waist in the OV pant as with the Kutana's and sizing up I end up with all the extra waist material bunched up under my belt in order to get the legs/ass with enough room. Idk that I would want a pant any warmer than the Kutana for archery season but I get that it has to kinda hit that happy middle ground; I run the Kutana basically all September and early October, the Attacks get a little warm for me most of the time in Sept.

Alpine jacket sounds like it will be on the money! It may not be as light as the Grumman but again, for a 3.3oz difference and significant warmth, I'm thinking it may replace my Grumman all together.

I will be super interested to see how well temp regulating the fleece is. I agree, I hate how some fabrics just don't layer well together (like merino under a grid fleece) so that will be nice with that face fabric keeping everything streamlined.

Appreciate your time man.

For what it is worth, the Attack 32 fits me perfect, and the OV 32 pant fits me perfect. And It was good for temps in late July through late Sept. Once it started getting below freezing a night the OV pant was still sufficient with a merino base layer. By late October I switched to the Guide Pro pant.

 

[DisplacedHusky]

Appreciate the questions here. First thing I'll say is I think I'll be able to address a lot of these questions in detail on a podcast, so look for that in the next 1-2 months.

Second thing, I have a difficult time being brief when talking about product design and how it applies in the field. Because I feel like if it's worth even asking or discussing, that I should give the most in depth and informative answer I can. It's a tough thing to balance, but I do want anyone asking to have the right information for them to make an informed decision on how any given piece of gear might be relatable their preferences or needs in the mountains.

Regarding the Primaloft Evolve mapping and the face fabric used in those areas - because there have been a couple questions about that. The Pursuit Hybrid Fleece is an ACTIVE insulating piece for cold conditions. If the conditions warrant it's use - meaning it's cold enough to need it while one is exerting himself - then breathability is paramount. This is the precedent that this piece is designed on. Through testing several variations of Polartec Alpha and Primaloft Evolve - ranging from completely naked Alpha to completely covered Alpha and/or Evolve - we found that completely naked Alpha has such a narrow use case that it is not useful enough over a broad enough range of conditions that is was something we wanted to move forward with. There were too many condition sets where any existence of wind rendered the piece useless on its own. The transverse was also found to be the case with completely covered Alpha/Evolve. It was simply too warm in too many condition sets, and not breathable enough.

For this piece to truly perform in cold conditions as a piece we can just leave on for hours and days we had to target a balance of maximizing breathability and adequate wind resistance. Wind resistance and breathability work against each other. BUT, the priority for this piece if breathability, since it is an ACTIVE piece. Our target is maximizing breathability while maintaining a level of wind resistance in specific areas to make this piece effective in a useable range of cold conditions. Effective at what? Maintaining enough body heat, while managing body moisture via breathability and drying out.

Any quality or property that would make this piece more wind resistant, warmer, or the face fabric over the Evolve portions more durable, would make this piece less effective at being what it is intended to be. This is just the performance target we aimed for.

Every piece of gear has a balance of tradeoffs, compromises, and benefits. And I understand as a user and consumer that it's easy to start looking for all the things we want something to do for us, while losing sight of what that thing is supposed to do for us in the first place. An analogy I like to convey comes from Formula 1 racing. Specifically the tires on an F1 car. What is their job - priority #1? I'd say it's to maintain traction so the car can put power to the ground to keep the car on the track while moving forward through the track at the fastest speed possible. But it sure would be nice if the tires lasted longer and had longer life right? That would save some money and maybe even mean the driver didn't have to go into pit to change out tires. Those things may be true, but they are lesser or even non-existent priorities because the properties that would enable the tires to last longer or be more durable detract from the tire performing it's #1 job.

To be clear, we're not claiming to have developed the F1 car of apparel, I just like the analogy!

Thank you for sharing this info. I have an older Polartech Alpha jacket from Mt. Hardware and love it for a variety of activities. I’m in the market for an active insulation jacket for hunting and I’m glad more hunting clothing manufacturers have began using Alpha and Evolve. I’ll definitely be putting off my purchase until I’m able to check out your new piece.

 

[K_pem]

For what it is worth, the Attack 32 fits me perfect, and the OV 32 pant fits me perfect. And It was good for temps in late July through late Sept. Once it started getting below freezing a night the OV pant was still sufficient with a merino base layer. By late October I switched to the Guide Pro pant.

Fair enough. I sized up in the Attack as well to a 34 but they are definitely too loose on me, sounds like these will probably be good to go size wise. They might take a back seat to my Kutana's till mid Sept, depending on how hot I find them, but if they've got good ventilation (I feel like the liner in the Kutana is a little tight) then maybe not.

I tend to run super hot when moving but freeze when I stop. I like the Peloton 97 zip off bottoms for this since they're so damn light (4.9oz)

 

[K_pem]

Appreciate the questions here. First thing I'll say is I think I'll be able to address a lot of these questions in detail on a podcast, so look for that in the next 1-2 months.

Second thing, I have a difficult time being brief when talking about product design and how it applies in the field. Because I feel like if it's worth even asking or discussing, that I should give the most in depth and informative answer I can. It's a tough thing to balance, but I do want anyone asking to have the right information for them to make an informed decision on how any given piece of gear might be relatable their preferences or needs in the mountains.

Regarding the Primaloft Evolve mapping and the face fabric used in those areas - because there have been a couple questions about that. The Pursuit Hybrid Fleece is an ACTIVE insulating piece for cold conditions. If the conditions warrant it's use - meaning it's cold enough to need it while one is exerting himself - then breathability is paramount. This is the precedent that this piece is designed on. Through testing several variations of Polartec Alpha and Primaloft Evolve - ranging from completely naked Alpha to completely covered Alpha and/or Evolve - we found that completely naked Alpha has such a narrow use case that it is not useful enough over a broad enough range of conditions that is was something we wanted to move forward with. There were too many condition sets where any existence of wind rendered the piece useless on its own. The transverse was also found to be the case with completely covered Alpha/Evolve. It was simply too warm in too many condition sets, and not breathable enough.

For this piece to truly perform in cold conditions as a piece we can just leave on for hours and days we had to target a balance of maximizing breathability and adequate wind resistance. Wind resistance and breathability work against each other. BUT, the priority for this piece if breathability, since it is an ACTIVE piece. Our target is maximizing breathability while maintaining a level of wind resistance in specific areas to make this piece effective in a useable range of cold conditions. Effective at what? Maintaining enough body heat, while managing body moisture via breathability and drying out.

Any quality or property that would make this piece more wind resistant, warmer, or the face fabric over the Evolve portions more durable, would make this piece less effective at being what it is intended to be. This is just the performance target we aimed for.

Every piece of gear has a balance of tradeoffs, compromises, and benefits. And I understand as a user and consumer that it's easy to start looking for all the things we want something to do for us, while losing sight of what that thing is supposed to do for us in the first place. An analogy I like to convey comes from Formula 1 racing. Specifically the tires on an F1 car. What is their job - priority #1? I'd say it's to maintain traction so the car can put power to the ground to keep the car on the track while moving forward through the track at the fastest speed possible. But it sure would be nice if the tires lasted longer and had longer life right? That would save some money and maybe even mean the driver didn't have to go into pit to change out tires. Those things may be true, but they are lesser or even non-existent priorities because the properties that would enable the tires to last longer or be more durable detract from the tire performing it's #1 job.

To be clear, we're not claiming to have developed the F1 car of apparel, I just like the analogy!

Great analogy for sure... but I think I speak for everyone when I say we still expect a F1 level piece... haha

Idk if you've got hands on the Sitka Ambient UL60 but it seems like this is going to be a good competitor and more competitive to that piece than say the Ambient 100 most people are referencing. Nice and light, just enough warmth to be comfortable while moving in the morning/late evening (or in cooler conditions) and to keep the edge off if stalking/stopping intermittently.

Would you mind sharing the weight of the grid fleece used where the evolve is not? Something similar to a Sitka CORE HW Hoody or even thinner? And just for clarification, the whole piece is backed to a 30D nylon shell right?

TIA

 

[Eagle]

Good questions here. Regarding torso lengths. The hybrid fleece and puffy will be made in standard and tall torso sizes. The pants are made in 30, 32, and 34 inch inseams. Waist sizes will be in 1 inch increments from 29 to 36. 2 inch increments above 36.

Please offer a 29" waist with a 34" inseam! I know I'm in the minority here, but there are a fair bit of us no waist/long leg guys in the world.

My one concern is the fit, as I don't have a waist or an ass but I've got big thighs and calves, and "trim" fitting pants are generally a no go for me in a size that fits my waist.

 

[awcopeland]

Please offer a 29" waist with a 34" inseam! I know I'm in the minority here, but there are a fair bit of us no waist/long leg guys in the world.

My one concern is the fit, as I don't have a waist or an ass but I've got big thighs and calves, and "trim" fitting pants are generally a no go for me in a size that fits my waist.

I’m in a similar situation. Looking forward to the built in belt. That is my favorite feature of the stone glacier pants.