New developments coming this summer

[grahambiel]

Appreciate the questions here. First thing I'll say is I think I'll be able to address a lot of these questions in detail on a podcast, so look for that in the next 1-2 months.

Second thing, I have a difficult time being brief when talking about product design and how it applies in the field. Because I feel like if it's worth even asking or discussing, that I should give the most in depth and informative answer I can. It's a tough thing to balance, but I do want anyone asking to have the right information for them to make an informed decision on how any given piece of gear might be relatable their preferences or needs in the mountains.

Regarding the Primaloft Evolve mapping and the face fabric used in those areas - because there have been a couple questions about that. The Pursuit Hybrid Fleece is an ACTIVE insulating piece for cold conditions. If the conditions warrant it's use - meaning it's cold enough to need it while one is exerting himself - then breathability is paramount. This is the precedent that this piece is designed on. Through testing several variations of Polartec Alpha and Primaloft Evolve - ranging from completely naked Alpha to completely covered Alpha and/or Evolve - we found that completely naked Alpha has such a narrow use case that it is not useful enough over a broad enough range of conditions that is was something we wanted to move forward with. There were too many condition sets where any existence of wind rendered the piece useless on its own. The transverse was also found to be the case with completely covered Alpha/Evolve. It was simply too warm in too many condition sets, and not breathable enough.

For this piece to truly perform in cold conditions as a piece we can just leave on for hours and days we had to target a balance of maximizing breathability and adequate wind resistance. Wind resistance and breathability work against each other. BUT, the priority for this piece if breathability, since it is an ACTIVE piece. Our target is maximizing breathability while maintaining a level of wind resistance in specific areas to make this piece effective in a useable range of cold conditions. Effective at what? Maintaining enough body heat, while managing body moisture via breathability and drying out.

Any quality or property that would make this piece more wind resistant, warmer, or the face fabric over the Evolve portions more durable, would make this piece less effective at being what it is intended to be. This is just the performance target we aimed for.

Every piece of gear has a balance of tradeoffs, compromises, and benefits. And I understand as a user and consumer that it's easy to start looking for all the things we want something to do for us, while losing sight of what that thing is supposed to do for us in the first place. An analogy I like to convey comes from Formula 1 racing. Specifically the tires on an F1 car. What is their job - priority #1? I'd say it's to maintain traction so the car can put power to the ground to keep the car on the track while moving forward through the track at the fastest speed possible. But it sure would be nice if the tires lasted longer and had longer life right? That would save some money and maybe even mean the driver didn't have to go into pit to change out tires. Those things may be true, but they are lesser or even non-existent priorities because the properties that would enable the tires to last longer or be more durable detract from the tire performing it's #1 job.

To be clear, we're not claiming to have developed the F1 car of apparel, I just like the analogy!

Curious, are we gonna see insulation all the way around or is this going to be the piece that many of us heavy sweaters have been hoping for (with bare nylon where your pack rides)?

 

[Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals]

Great analogy for sure... but I think I speak for everyone when I say we still expect a F1 level piece... haha

Idk if you've got hands on the Sitka Ambient UL60 but it seems like this is going to be a good competitor and more competitive to that piece than say the Ambient 100 most people are referencing. Nice and light, just enough warmth to be comfortable while moving in the morning/late evening (or in cooler conditions) and to keep the edge off if stalking/stopping intermittently.

Would you mind sharing the weight of the grid fleece used where the evolve is not? Something similar to a Sitka CORE HW Hoody or even thinner? And just for clarification, the whole piece is backed to a 30D nylon shell right?

TIA

Haha, perfect!

What you describe is in line with what we're doing.

Not sure what the weight is on that particular grid fleece, but I'd say it's similar, perhaps a little thinner.

Regarding the 30d face fabric, this is only placed over the Primaloft Evolve areas. The grid fleece areas are naked.

Also, some guys have asked about the hood fabric. It is Primaloft Evolve with the same 30d nylon face fabric.

 

[jefftrout]

Are the front pockets on the pants horizontal on sharply angled? Too sharpe an angle and carrying a pocket knife is difficult. I don't often carry one there while hunting, but for more versatile use and everyday wear, 100% one is there.

 

[Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals]

They are angled at about 45 degree or a little less. I hear you on the steep angle, which I don't like for the reasons you stated. That was taken into consideration in the design.

 

[il_cop]

@Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals

Ty for all the great info. I just got caught up on this through Exo's 'Monday minute'

Apologies if you've already answered these, feel free to ignore them if you've already answered...

Are you expecting the puffy to have ~ 230g of 850?

Would you call it a midweight? Somewhere between a down parka, and a down sweater?

Second, how will the new mid-layer compare to the ventus hoodie in terms of design intent?

Thanks!

 

[evergreenfrenzy]

I’m looking forward to these pieces being released after hearing Mark and Steve talk about them on and off the last few years on the podcast. I’ve been a lightweight backpacker a long time and had more recently got into hunting, and appreciate the mindset these pieces are designed with. I’m now specifically in the market for an active insulation midlayer so can’t wait to hear more about that, excited for the podcast!

 

[A-Aron80]

2&3 - The pieces - design intent & quick view.
Altura Dynamic Pants. They are 4 way stretch, double weave nylon. Early-mid season, and fit slightly on the trim side. Meaning they're designed for mobility without restriction, but also without a bunch of excess fabric. The knees are articulated. The waistband has an internal and adjustable belt with a cam-lock tensioner. Two front pockets, two back pockets, one thigh pocket that sits slightly forward and has a little volume built into it. And it's got zippered hip vents with a mesh lining. The pants weigh about 13-14 ounces.

Pursuit Hybrid Fleece. This is a cold weather active insulation piece. Breathability is the priority with this piece. We want to leave this piece on for an entire hunt in cold conditions. If it’s cold enough to need something other than the sun hoody and maybe a windbreaker, we want to be able to put this piece on and never take it off. This requires high breathability with just enough insulation and just enough wind resistance for those conditions. To accomplish that we use a combination of body mapped fabrics - Primaloft Evolve 75 gram active insulation, a high CFM (air permeable) 30d woven nylon, and low bulk grid fleece. The front zipper is about 2/3 length, and there are thumb loops. The hood is close fitting and not adjustable. This piece weighs 9-10 ounces.

Vantage Alpine Jacket. The puffy jacket is pretty simple. We set out to make a 16 ounce jacket with an adjustable hood and two hand pockets. As warm as we can make that and end up at about 16 ounces. That's pretty much it. It's filled with 7-9 ounces of 850 fill power ExpeDry down. The fabric is a two layer 15d nylon that is woven in a way that creates down chambers without the need to stitch them in place. This removes over 10,000 stitch holes from a similarly filled puffy, adds more than 20 percent wind and dust resistance, and adds a noticeable amount of water resistance.

Alright folks, that’s all I’ve got for today. I’ll keep adding to this thread moving forward, in addition to answering any questions that come up. Feel free to ask!

Will the side pocket (or any of the pockets) on the pant have a zipper?

 

[sivart]

Why all hunting pants don’t have a built in belt, I’ll never understand

 

[StopMakingSense]

Hopefully I can get my hands on a couple of pairs before the sheep opener August 1st. Looking forward to the pants and hybrid. Any list for pre-release to get on?

 

[LightWeightN8]

Technically no. The existing sun hoody isn't being updated. We are developing a new one, but it's a little farther out in the timeline. It'll be a little heavier and more durable (abrasion and pick resistant). Most likely releasing early next year. All tentative at this point though.

I recently got a pair of the Satu pants and really like em. How will the new pants compare to the Satu?

 

[Jfox21]

Good questions here. Regarding torso lengths. The hybrid fleece and puffy will be made in standard and tall torso sizes. The pants are made in 30, 32, and 34 inch inseams. Waist sizes will be in 1 inch increments from 29 to 36. 2 inch increments above 36.

These sizes are awesome as a 6’4” person love the long sizes and 34 inch inseam!

 

[Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals]

@Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals

Ty for all the great info. I just got caught up on this through Exo's 'Monday minute'

Apologies if you've already answered these, feel free to ignore them if you've already answered...

Are you expecting the puffy to have ~ 230g of 850?

Would you call it a midweight? Somewhere between a down parka, and a down sweater?

Second, how will the new mid-layer compare to the ventus hoodie in terms of design intent?

Thanks!

A size L puffy has about ~ 212g of 850 fill. Regarding warmth / weight, I'd say it is how you describe - much warmer than down sweater, but not parka.

The Pursuit Hybrid is much more breathable and more useable in cold conditions under exertion. The design intent is that of a true active insulating midlayer. Much better breathability and moisture management. The ability to move in cold conditions for an extended period of time without having to remove it to avoid overheating.

 

[Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals]

Will the side pocket (or any of the pockets) on the pant have a zipper?

The side cargo pocket has a zipper.

 

[Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals]

Hopefully I can get my hands on a couple of pairs before the sheep opener August 1st. Looking forward to the pants and hybrid. Any list for pre-release to get on?

I hope so too, but to be transparent It's unlikely you'll be able to get them before August 1.

I'm working on setting up an email signup for updates and release info.

 

[Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals]

I recently got a pair of the Satu pants and really like em. How will the new pants compare to the Satu?

Similar layout, but overall, they're just designed for better mobility and comfort. The fabric stretches more, the knees are articulated, and the fit is focused on being streamlined for mobility in the mountains. They're meant to be a simple and comfortable pants, without too much going on.

 

[desertdwellerdyl]

I hope so too, but to be transparent It's unlikely you'll be able to get them before August 1.

I'm working on setting up an email signup for updates and release info.

What's the ETA on the release of these new items? I'm in the market for pants and would be interested if I can purchase a pair or two before Archery Elk.

 

[Brigham @ Outdoor Vitals]

What's the ETA on the release of these new items? I'm in the market for pants and would love to grab a pair or two before Archery Elk.

We plan to release them for purchase around the last couple days of July, and orders will start shipping the first, maybe second week of August.

 

[k.mason.turl]

Just discovered Outdoor Vitals after listening to Exo's Monday Minute podcast. Sounds like there are some great products coming, looking forward to it

 

[goathunter]

Good questions here. Regarding torso lengths. The hybrid fleece and puffy will be made in standard and tall torso sizes. The pants are made in 30, 32, and 34 inch inseams. Waist sizes will be in 1 inch increments from 29 to 36. 2 inch increments above 36.

In between waist sizes! Consider me interested! I am between sizes, on pants that seem to be true to size it really matters. On pants that are a little small it's a non-issue. What do you expect these pants to cost?

 

[patagonialuke]

Cannot wait to try the active insulator. I've been able to use the majority of active insulations out there, and 75-g PrimaLoft Evolve (paired with light, air-perm face fabric + grid fleece) is the most impressive I've found in terms of balancing breathability and warmth for the majority of cool and cold-weather activities.

But I would never have pulled the trigger on the Sitka Ambient 75 if I hadn't stumbled upon a great deal; psyched to see a comparable design whose price won't be ballooned by proprietary camo patterns.