New Alaska Sheep Regulations

[snowcamoman]

Yeah, that's still awesome. There are general tag areas in the Wrangell's and a few other spots where my kids will have a field day down the road.

 

[Foldem]

Why don't they drop the guide requirement and take the whole state to a draw for residents and non residents with a non resident cap by hunt area? If sheep are getting over harvested harvest needs managed no matter who's doing the shooting. Leftover tags randomly allocated in a second draw or go on sale on a certain date otc for the NR price to all.

 

[Stid2677]

Why don't they drop the guide requirement and take the whole state to a draw for residents and non residents with a non resident cap by hunt area? If sheep are getting over harvested harvest needs managed no matter who's doing the shooting. Leftover tags randomly allocated in a second draw or go on sale on a certain date otc for the NR price to all.

The guide lobby is STRONG and the money is like crack,, non resident monies pay many salaries of the decision makers. The guide thing while maybe once valid is a joke now,, many guides are not even residents and some have never even hunted sheep before. Not uncommon at all to end up in the field with a assistant guide from L48 who has never hunted sheep in Alaska guiding a hunter. The thing is a guide is supposed to have local knowledge to keep the client safe and to help judge legal game... I'm sure all states have politics and Alaska is not exempt from the BS either.

That said there is very good guides who are both knowledgeable and care for their areas and game population and harvest only mature animals. It is the guides that work the circuit, who hunt an area out and move on, Alaska spring and early season then onto L48 for deer and elk. These slash and burn people are the ones to avoid.

 

[adventure907]

Yes NR are more successful because they have to hire a guide and the guides dominate the best sheep habitat and also use their financial influence to keep air taxis from flying in residents to complete with them.

For years residents have tried in vane to limit guide numbers but the guide lobby is so strong all attempts have failed, 4 of the 7 BOG members are in the commercial hunting business. For this reason the only option left is to attempt to limit their clients. It is not that residents don't want to share, it is we are boxed out of the prime areas for sheep hunting by people selling those sheep to non residents.



The airplane prop 207 was just a way for the guides to limit competition from the residents that own planes that they could not block by using the air taxis they hire every year and therefor control where they could drop residents. Since they can still spot sheep while they fly to support their camps and the drop clients off and return all the while "not" looking for sheep.



Steve

I am not going to comment other to say there is a lot of misinformation in the above three statements.

 

[BRobertson]

Yes NR are more successful because they have to hire a guide and the guides dominate the best sheep habitat and also use their financial influence to keep air taxis from flying in residents to complete with them.

For years residents have tried in vane to limit guide numbers but the guide lobby is so strong all attempts have failed, 4 of the 7 BOG members are in the commercial hunting business. For this reason the only option left is to attempt to limit their clients. It is not that residents don't want to share, it is we are boxed out of the prime areas for sheep hunting by people selling those sheep to non residents.

Myself and many residents I know would simply like to see the guide requirement go away, then we all could compete on an even plane.

The airplane prop 207 was just a way for the guides to limit competition from the residents that own planes that they could not block by using the air taxis they hire every year and therefor control where they could drop residents. Since they can still spot sheep while they fly to support their camps and the drop clients off and return all the while "not" looking for sheep.

The 1-4 non resident rule they just passed was proposed by the guides, this has no effect because they will just book a different NR client, the intent to me is to restrict the NRs that come and hunt with family.

I would love to hunt sheep in WA, CA, MT, and any other state that has sheep,, for NOT one state other than Alaska gives any NR an over the counter tag.......

All this is about the 15 to 20K a sheep is worth and Bears are even worse. Money brings out the worst in folks.


Steve

Actually, it was an Alaska Supreme Court decision that is responsible for the unlimited number of gudes.
Probably quite a few years before your time.

Also, the best sheep areas are not dominated by guides,
the best areas are closed down, in the "new" parks created by the lunatic Jimmy Carter.
Where were all of you so called Alaskan residents when we were fighting against the land grabs that permanently locked up our best sheep , goat, glacier bear, etc. areas!!!?? We could have used your help!!
We said at the time that the intention was to force everyone on top of each other, and then the anti-s would be able to point to the decimated sheep populations and guess what ,we are all fighting amongst ourselves now. Divide and conquer!! The Feds should not be managing anything up here!! They allow so called subsistence sheep hunting!!! Give me a f**king break!!

Bob



Bob

 

[Stid2677]

I see that I have hurting some feelings,, called a liar by my friend Dave and a cheechako by another.

I know the history of the Alaska Constitution, and the whys as to the guide industry being the way it is today. The guide concession program is dead and not going anywhere, so a free for all on state and blm land will continue.

Any NR wanting to hunt Alaska should look to hunting Federal Land as the Feds limit take and a better experience is had than that on state land.

We all view things through our filter and I stated things the way I have seen them. Try to get any air taxi to take you into sheep country on state land in 19 or 20 and see if you can get a ride. They simply will not take you because they want to keep their guide business. I can't blame them as guides book them every year and a resident may only use them once.

After listening to the last 4 BOG state meetings,, I can't help but be jaded.

Still love ya Mr Dave.

 

[Kotaman]

Many folks move to Alaska for the hunting opportunities, even people from North Dakota can move here for the hunting opportunities.

I wouldn't go that far Nick!

 

[Stid2677]

Dayyyyum, Mr Bob. I was still crapping in my pants when The Peanut Farmer locked up all the good land in state parks...

Now you guys see why things are like they are,, each BOG meeting is like a family reunion after the drinking starts.

 

[BRobertson]

I am not trying to take the guides side of the debate, hell I think the guide industry is very sleazy. There are VERY few that make a decent living at it that are not bandits!! So much so that the honest ones stand out like beacons!!, and they are justifiably proud!! Probably why
some folks get so emotional about this!!

Bob

 

[Stid2677]

I am not trying to take the guides side of the debate, hell I think the guide industry is very sleazy. There are VERY few that make a decent living at it that are not bandits!! So much so that the honest ones stand out like beacons!!, and they are justifiably proud!! Probably why
some folks get so emotional about this!!

Bob

I agree there are some GREAT guides,, like anything the scumbags ruin it for all. Peace Brother,, I have been run out by 2 scumbags and after wasting time, effort and money not to mention I go into the hills to get away from drama. not to seek it out,, right???

 

[BRobertson]

Dayyyyum, Mr Bob. I was still crapping in my pants when The Peanut Farmer locked up all the good land in state parks...

Now you guys see why things are like they are,, each BOG meeting is like a family reunion after the drinking starts.

Steve, I am sorry to unload about this. I sometimes forget that I am twice everyones age here!!!
Thanks a lot for reminding me!!! (smiley goes here!!!!!)

You are a better man than I am if you can attend the meetings without going to jail!!!!

 

[BRobertson]

I agree there are some GREAT guides,, like anything the scumbags ruin it for all. Peace Brother,, I have been run out by 2 scumbags and after wasting time, effort and money not to mention I go into the hills to get away from drama. not to seek it out,, right???

Steve,
You have the right idea!!
I plan to spend the rest of my years trying to enjoy the things I love, hopefully drawing a decent permit now and then, and taking
advantage of my buddies that can still afford their own airplane!!! (I can't!!!!)

Bob

 

[Mike7]

Wouldn't a better way to manage wildlife be to limit tags something like Idaho does, especially since there are Constitutional limitations on managing guides? In Idaho a certain smaller percentage (?10%) of tags (by draw & OTC) are reserved for non-residents. Tag fees are much higher, you only get a once in a lifetime tag for some species, and you don't have to use a guide.

Why is it okay as a nonresident to draw for a tag or purchase an OTC tag for Alaskan moose or caribou? What kind of crazy things are happening with that system that they don't want happening with sheep and bear? If there are tag limits, what does it matter if an occasional non-resident hunter shoots a smaller non-mature sheep with his once or twice in a lifetime sheep harvest?

I live in Washington and may never draw a sheep tag in my lifetime. And most guys I know can't afford $20,000 dollars to hunt a Dall Sheep. But I think a lot of guys would put in $15-$20 yearly for a draw and the opportunity to hunt a dall sheep some day? They also wouldn't mind paying $1,000 - $2,000 for the tag when they finally drew it. They would still be using Alaskan transporters, motels, hunt planners, etc. while there, but just not guide fees which seem crazy to the average guy.

 

[Floorguy]

If there are tag limits, what does it matter if an occasional non-resident hunter shoots a smaller non-mature sheep with his once or twice in a lifetime sheep harvest?

My first response is are you joking? I am a resident who may only go sheep hunting once or twice if its good enough for non-res guys why not res?

FYI there are any ram tags.

 

[bosox2850]

Why don't they drop the guide requirement and take the whole state to a draw for residents and non residents with a non resident cap by hunt area? If sheep are getting over harvested harvest needs managed no matter who's doing the shooting. Leftover tags randomly allocated in a second draw or go on sale on a certain date otc for the NR price to all.

This right here.... Enough with the it's for your safety BS cause we all know at this point it's all about the money. Want to limit harvest then let people try and DIY the sheep hunt. That harvest % will drop greatly. The sheep numbers will rise after a decade of not needing the guides to go hunt anymore.

 

[Mike7]

My first response is are you joking? I am a resident who may only go sheep hunting once or twice if its good enough for non-res guys why not res?

FYI there are any ram tags.

I said nonresident only, just because I read previously someone mention that us dumb nonresidents "need" guides so that we don't break any laws and accidentally shoot a non-legal ram.

I don't know much about the biology of sheep, so I can only assume that the legal ram requirements are actually used as a way of limiting both resident and nonresident harvest while not limiting tags. Maybe that is an easier management system for fish and game than limiting tag numbers for sheep, while still maintaining herd health?

I know for other animal species though, like for instance blacktail deer in Northern California, I have seen politics alone used to override science and restrict any harvest of all spike and forked horned bucks in heavily pressured areas, which led directly to younger bucks and inferior genetically older bucks doing all of the breeding, thereby artificially selecting out of the population the older genetically superior bucks.

 

[jherald]

proposals look to be a whole new level of convulsion. wonder how much "science" its actually based off of.

 

[tipsntails7]

While I'm not a resident I can understand and agree with the res guys on this. Either cap the non resident tags to 20% or whatever seems fair or extend that 1 in 4 to 1-10 or 1-20 but I would say harvest not just a tag, and drop the guide restriction. Alaska would still get the NR money because most NR's without a guide would probably take 3-5 trips at the very least to tag out. Once he does the clock starts say 10 years. So you limit the tale of NR and you still get NR money from guys who go empty handed.

 

[Snyd]

I might agree if it were not largely FEDERAL land that we all own and pay for that contain the sheep. Last time I checked Alaska cannot stay afloat without a net gain from federal money.

I would like to take one ram in my lifetime and residents expect one every year....

There is nothing stopping you from hunting sheep in Alaska but you! The state sells an UNLIMITED number of NR sheep tags each year. (which is the problem) You don't have to wait for a draw. All you have to do is pony up the bucks and hire a guide to the tune of about $12-15,000. Your chances of success are HIGHER than us residents.

Unless you are a non-res hunter that can afford $15,000 to hunt AK sheep every year, this 1:4 won't affect your dream to hunt sheep in AK. And yes, as a resident sheep hunter I expect to be able to hunt sheep every year. Now killing one is a different story. You don't just jump in your truck, crack a cold one, drive out to the coolies and start shootin.

It wasn't resident hunters that overharvested sheep in areas of the state that are now draw only, like GMU 14. We have a guide industry to thank for that. If anyone has lessened your opportunity to shoot a ram it's the guide industry.

 

[bosox2850]

There is nothing stopping you from hunting sheep in Alaska but you! The state sells an UNLIMITED number of NR sheep tags each year. (which is the problem) You don't have to wait for a draw. All you have to do is pony up the bucks and hire a guide to the tune of about $12-15,000. Your chances of success are HIGHER than us residents.

Unless you are a non-res hunter that can afford $15,000 to hunt AK sheep every year, this 1:4 won't affect your dream to hunt sheep in AK. And yes, as a resident sheep hunter I expect to be able to hunt sheep every year. Now killing one is a different story. You don't just jump in your truck, crack a cold one, drive out to the coolies and start shootin.

It wasn't resident hunters that overharvested sheep in areas of the state that are now draw only, like GMU 14. We have a guide industry to thank for that. If anyone has lessened your opportunity to shoot a ram it's the guide industry.

Obviously as residents you all feel it worse than anyone, with that said why as residents aren't you all forcing the issue about the guide restriction for non residents. You all know that alone would limit harvest on top of the 1:4 restriction. There are those of us that want to hunt but don't want to use a guide, not because of the cost but just because we are DIY hunters. Succeed or fail we want to do it ourselves! And the only two places being Canada and Alaska that anyone can hunt a sheep has this BS law saying I need a guide. No what we need is a drop camp and to be left alone.