Most reliable and shootable 9mm semi auto pistols

Re manual safety. I can do with or without one. If I’m strapping my pistol to a holster and having it hang off my pack, Bino harness or putting it in a place where it will be leaving and entering the holster a lot I do like the added measure.

Obviously easier to train quickly without one but then again I feel more comfortable re holstering in say a Bino pack where I can’t easily visualize things are clear with a functional safety.
 
That's what the training is for. If I can become proficient enough to have even a slight chance of getting a few shots on target at 10 yards for a charging bear, I expect flipping the safety with my thumb on the draw would be second nature
Fair enough...but that's just one more thing to have to train for and one more thing that can go wrong in the heat of the moment. Just something to think about.
 
This has been a great discussion so far, thank you all for adding your thoughts. I have a Glock 19 and it’s okay but I struggle to shoot it well due to grip and trigger. Rather than modify the Glock, I think I’d prefer to get something smaller and with a manual safety for carrying in the outdoors. I’m leaning towards the p365XL at the moment but need to get hands on the new macro and fuse.

Similar to the questions about adding RDS to a carry pistol, where do you all land on adding weapon lights? Let’s say for these three common scenarios:
- Home defense
- Concealed carry in public / daily life
- Hiking / hunting in the backcountry


Ideally a 20 round magazine, RDS, and bright gun light should be carried. But that's a bunch of stuff to carry around, and at what point are you going to leave it at home because it's a hassle?
 
How would you know that it is obviously a predator without shining a light on it? What if it is just your hunting partner, and you now have a loaded 9mm pointed at him (if you use your weapon light to ID the target)?

I'm guessing because it's trying to eat him. 😕
 
I'm guessing because it's trying to eat him. 😕
Well, if its close enough to be trying to eat him (i.e. point-blank, smell his breath range), then good luck unholstering the weapon, flipping off the safety and activating the light while he's chewing on you. ;)

My only point was that, generally speaking, the threat is not always "obvious" and it's a bad idea to identify a potential threat with a weapon mounted light. The "bear" charging into his tent in the dark might just be his buddy stumbling back into camp after taking a piss...
 
Well, if its close enough to be trying to eat him (i.e. point-blank, smell his breath range), then good luck unholstering the weapon, flipping off the safety and activating the light while he's chewing on you. ;)

My only point was that, generally speaking, the threat is not always "obvious" and it's a bad idea to identify a potential threat with a weapon mounted light. The "bear" charging into his tent in the dark might just be his buddy stumbling back into camp after taking a piss...

True. My answer was in jest.

A bear huffing around livestock at camp while dark would be an excellent time for a WML.

And to be clear a bright light pointed at the ground has a ton of cast, which is an appropriate use.

I use a handheld light and train with it, but do have mounted lights. For sure they take some education and training.
 
Let's jump back to ammunition for 9mm.

I've seen recommended any quality barrier blind ammunition.

What about grain? I think federal has some that are only 124gr.

Obviously, bullet shape matters. I wouldn't want a rounded bullet bouncing off the bear skull. Flat, maybe wadcutter type.

I see speer gold dot, g2, and federal hst and federal punch. Not sure about other options... Those are the most common I see that are referenced as barrier blind
First, to clarify, my focus is on grizzlies, not black bears. Incidents between those two tend to be very different. Generally black bear incidents don't happen nearly as quickly or abruptly as grizzly incidents do, and incident for incident, aren't as difficult to deal with. For black bears, I'd be fine enough with whatever my normal carry ammo is. Maybe not the best choice, but not something I'd personally be concerned with. Since I live with both though, I focus on the former, as that's the most likely incident for me, where I live.

For the last year, I've been carrying Federal FMJ FP which seems to penetrate as well or even better than my hardcast loads. That said, @Formidilosus has mentioned that the FMJ might tend to deflect off bone more easily than hardcast, which I did not test, but it makes sense. I have no illusion that I'd be able to count on a CNS hit, so that's not my primary concern, but it would be better IMO to reduce that possibility.

As an aside to planning on a CNS hit: Looking at the grizzzly skulls I have, the brain of the largest bear skull I have, about an 8' boar, is the size of my fist. Planning to hit that target in the time and speed these incidents typically happen, is unrealistic, IMO. Bonus if it happens, but it's very likely it won't, so also IMO, a good idea to have something that has shown itself to work well in the far more common scenario of COM hits, which is obviously a larger target by, literally, orders of magnitude and is hit far, far more often in actual incidents.

Given all that, IMO, something like the Buffalo Bore or Underwood 147 hardcast might be the best all-around choices. I don't remember where it was, but there was a bunch of penetration testing of Underwood hardcast ammo, from 9mm to 45 Super and everything in between. Surprisingly, to me, the 147 9mm and 250ish 45 Super out penetrated everything else, including 10mm. My thoughts are based on the premise that a deep, straight-line penetrating bullet is optimum, which really hasn't been tested, but regardless, has been show to work very well when used.
 
I've worked extensively in bear country, and frankly a lot of the minutiae brought up here is just that. I was just happy to have a gun and a handheld light. However, I do understand your questions given your novice status.

I don't understand the fixation of having a manual safety. I was always concerned that a safety might be used to thwart a gun's use against me in a takeaway. I wouldn't rule out a desired platform based on presence of a safety. Like all guns, trigger discipline needs to be ingrained.

As for weapon-mounted lights...seems like a good idea to me. There are many available that are small and powerful, yet not bulky. Last thing you want to be fumbling around at night after being awakened is for your light AND a gun.

Probably unpopular as far as this discussion goes, but I chose pepper spray as my primary defense against critters. Perhaps a combination of these tools would best suit you. There is no perfect solution here.

As far as ammunition...I'd select a heavy quality self-defense ammo such as Federal HST or Winchester Ranger (HST for me), or check Underwood or Buffalo Bore for a specialized option.
 
Fair enough...but that's just one more thing to have to train for and one more thing that can go wrong in the heat of the moment. Just something to think about.
Same reason I don't carry bear spray and a handgun. An actual incident isn't the time to be thinking about what to grab and/or mistakenly choosing the much less effective option. OTOH, where I am, I also don't have to worry about the same legal hassles of shooting a grizzly, like people in the lower 48 do.
 
Let's jump back to ammunition for 9mm.

I've seen recommended any quality barrier blind ammunition.

What about grain? I think federal has some that are only 124gr.

Obviously, bullet shape matters. I wouldn't want a rounded bullet bouncing off the bear skull. Flat, maybe wadcutter type.

I see speer gold dot, g2, and federal hst and federal punch. Not sure about other options... Those are the most common I see that are referenced as barrier blind

Without a long treatise of why, the 147gr duty loads perform overall more consistently and “better” than the lighter 115-124gr loads. IF that is the type of projectile that you choose, a safe bet is the heavy versions of whatever the FBI has issues in the last 15’ish years. 147gr HST, Speer Gold Dot, GD G2, Winchester Ranger Bonded, etc. Hornady Critical duty 135gr +P is the current issues load, but it has some attributes that while scoring well, I am not a fan of… but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.

the other real option is hardcast. You get a somewhat flat nosed/rounded projectile, but they are all loaded to very high pressures, which increases muzzle flip and recoil. That’s not what I want. A buffalo bore 147gr Hardcast +P is a handful to shoot.

My ideal “bear” bullet would be a full wadcutter hard cast- due to the propensity of bullets skipping on bone. But, they don’t feed very well from semi autos. So as flat a nose as possible with as sharp an edge as possible, loaded to standard pressures. Such a load will penetrate straight through nearly anything, create a decent wound due the bullet shape, penetrate 18-20” consistently, and be very shootable.
 
Well, if its close enough to be trying to eat him (i.e. point-blank, smell his breath range), then good luck unholstering the weapon, flipping off the safety and activating the light while he's chewing on you. ;)

My only point was that, generally speaking, the threat is not always "obvious" and it's a bad idea to identify a potential threat with a weapon mounted light. The "bear" charging into his tent in the dark might just be his buddy stumbling back into camp after taking a piss...

I hunt solo. If I had a buddy, it would be different. And by obviously a predator, I mean the sounds that it is making. If it just sounded like some rustling and I had a buddy nearby, I certainly wouldn't point a firearm at it without ID
 
Let's jump back to ammunition for 9mm.

I've seen recommended any quality barrier blind ammunition.

What about grain? I think federal has some that are only 124gr.

Obviously, bullet shape matters. I wouldn't want a rounded bullet bouncing off the bear skull. Flat, maybe wadcutter type.

I see speer gold dot, g2, and federal hst and federal punch. Not sure about other options... Those are the most common I see that are referenced as barrier blind
Critical duty is a good barrier blind option. I generally EDC critical duty or HST or a mag of both depending on the time of year.

Buffalo Bore and Underwood both make quality hard cast and are what I carry on my bear gun.

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That's what the training is for. If I can become proficient enough to have even a slight chance of getting a few shots on target at 10 yards for a charging bear, I expect flipping the safety with my thumb on the draw would be second nature
This, IMO, is an advantage with the 19/2011 platforms is that with a proper grip, you are riding the safety and disengagement happens automatically with a proper grip.

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To op and anyone curious the sig p365 xmacro bundle with 3 mags and an included light is 80 bucks of at Murdochs until the 15th. Just did the paper work for one today but stupid ass Colorado makes me wait to have it. This thread finally convinced me to try a 365.
 
The Glock G 19-5 MOS is the easy button here. That said, handgun shooting is extremely difficult - especially under stress. Quality training, regular dry practice, and systemic live fire are essential. The choice of pistol is distinctly secondary.
 
This thread has my gears turning as OP's wishlist for a sidearm is very close to mine. Gonna need to swing through Scheels sometime soon
 
Honest question because I havnt tried it. Mounted light on a pistol being used at the same time as a headlamp. I’m curious if that would make any difference.

Sounds like I need to do some night shooting practice more often.

I generally don’t carry with a light as I prefer slimmer overall inside carry, but do carry an olight quick attach for use at a destination at night.

IMG_7117.jpeg

I just took this quickly. My Glock 43x, XS post and dot with trillium sight and my headlamp is a fenix hmr 23, mid setting 150 lumens. If I’m in back country the headlamp is always on my head at night and I sleep with it, weighs nothing. I’ve always preferred the fenix hotspot with spill and although the pic shows some glare - without the phone the scene of the basket ball base at 8 yards is well light and pistol sight easily referenced without glare.

I’ve not shot this at night though, difficult where I live. But now I’ll make a point to test somehow.
 
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Now how about holster types? Not necessarily brands, but that would be helpful too I guess.

Let's say sole holster use is for hiking/backpacking with family and archery backpack hunting.

What is the best style to use?
- under bino harness
- body harness low and to the side of binos
- pack belt mounted
- leg mounted
- other I don't know about
 
.

Now how about holster types? Not necessarily brands, but that would be helpful too I guess.

Let's say sole holster use is for hiking/backpacking with family and archery backpack hunting.

What is the best style to use?
- under bino harness
- body harness low and to the side of binos
- pack belt mounted
- leg mounted
- other I don't know about

Quality kydex IWB, pack or no pack.

I do have a setup to wear OWB and a setup that allows me to move my holster from pack belt to waist belt without removing the pistol, but concealed is my preferred method.
 
Do you really want to be fumbling around with a manual safety with a grizzly bear charging you?

I always see this come up. I don't own a gun that doesn't have either an exposed hammer or a safety. Disengaging it is a totally subconscious action. I never have and never will be hindered by a safety.

I do however often handle loaded weapons, and a safety is great for that. The reality of it is that me handling it while loaded is a sure thing. Its going to happen, alot. Me using the weapon to save a life is exceedingly unlikely. I'm not going into Mogadishu, and if I was I'd just take the safety off before I got there.

Glock managed to convince the world that external safeties are a bad thing and I personally think it is ridiculous.
 
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