Most reliable and shootable 9mm semi auto pistols

[ElPollo]

1) It’s not always prudent to start with a null hypothesis.

2) Hypotheses should be rejected based up on evidence to the contrary.

Source: Ex-professor of a physical science (won’t say what branch so as not to dox myself)

Ex… Yeah, I get it.

 

[ElPollo]

Bear defense threads always end up being a shit show.

 

[RockAndSage]

I was going to say the same thing. It seems guns and cartridgesnand sights have mostly been covered, but not lights.

My only thoughts on this application are for hunting.

I may have a headlamp on, but wouldn't it be easier to aim with a weapon light?

A scenario I can think of where I may not be wearing a headlamp is in the tent. I occasionally sleep in an open tarp shelter, so if I'm woken up by something that is obviously a predator, I wouldn't take the time to put the headlamp on and would just use the weapon light.

Thoughts?

The primary purpose of a weapon-mounted light in most applications is not target ID - it's target disorientation.

Weapon-mounted lights are a deeply misunderstood thing. The impact of all that light does two very important things that give you an edge: it causes a quick short-circuit of decision-making in most humans, and also hammers their eyes' ability do what they need to do, jamming wide-open pupils at night down to tiny pinpricks. It does this to their eyes even in bright daylight, but the effect is most dramatic at night and in darker structures. This gives you anywhere from a fraction of a second to a couple of seconds of your own decision-making time for shoot/no-shoot.

Unless there is an extremely compelling and specific reason not to have a WML, such as deep-cover concealed carry where minimal footprint means saving your life, a weapon-mounted light is a tremendous advantage.

As with everything discussed in this thread, personal experience and training with your gear is important - some lights can be so bright inside a hallway with white walls that they can mess with your own eyes, so be sure to experiment with yours in various conditions. I see zero disadvantage at all with one on a woods gun, all upsides. Even the extra bit of weight on the end will help keep your muzzle down for better follow-up shots.

 

[atmat]

Ex… Yeah, I get it.

Lol I went into private industry. But sure.

@omicron1792, I realized I didn’t respond to this. My apologies.

Someone would then need to prove it is a reliable cartridge for the job.

100% agree. I never said it’s proven as reliable.

In the words of @Formidilosus, your last line is an appeal to authority fallacy. It really has no relevance on the conversation.

I was being tongue-in-cheek to your response of “source: science” by saying “source: science professor.” For all you know I could’ve taught at the Bahamian School of Ganja Science.

 

[twall13]

I was going to say the same thing. It seems guns and cartridgesnand sights have mostly been covered, but not lights.

My only thoughts on this application are for hunting.

I may have a headlamp on, but wouldn't it be easier to aim with a weapon light?

A scenario I can think of where I may not be wearing a headlamp is in the tent. I occasionally sleep in an open tarp shelter, so if I'm woken up by something that is obviously a predator, I wouldn't take the time to put the headlamp on and would just use the weapon light.

Thoughts?

My experience is very limited compared to many on this thread but I'll share something I've noticed regarding lights.

I've come to strongly prefer a pistol mounted light to a headlamp in the dark. I had an experience that led me to add one to my pistol after missing a coyote that was harassing my dog while we were out trail running early one morning. I'm not the best shot with a pistol anyway (working on it) but having the light behind the pistol and shining on it (headlamp) was very distracting for me as it was much brighter on the pistol than it was on the coyote 25 yards away. I had iron sights on that pistol but I've also noticed that a headlamp caused issues with a red dot as well. Same thing, with the light shining from behind it messes with the brightness on my Halosun and I can't see the red dot in the dark because I have a bright light shining on it from behind. With a pistol mounted light that problem goes away. Yes it's more bulky with the light on but for my uses I've determined it's worth having.

Don't use the pistol light for target identification, but once you know you're going to shoot at something it's the best way to illuminate the target in the dark.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[TaperPin]

Good lord, there’s no way 99.99% of people are going to brain a bear running full speed. 99.99% of people don’t even know exactly where a bear’s brain is or how small it is. Yes it is no wider than the bone in the nose under all that skin and fur.

The advice to a brand new pistol shooter is to learn how to brain a bear?!? That’s so ridiculous I read it out loud to my fat beagle and it laughed so hard he fell off the chair. Some people should stick to telling whoppers about small rifles.

Any new pistol shooter should get a 22 to start out and shoot the snot out of it for 6 months before they even know what kind of personal preferences they will have in the design of a larger gun. I’d rather carry a dull pocket knife than try to love the trigger on a Glock. Double action then single action pull is the engineer’s dream and near the top of stupid town - one trigger weight is hard enough to master, let alone expect much out of a new shooter with two.

What if the new shooter falls in love with accuracy - the wrong gun is money down the toilet. What if he falls in love with compactness - a full size gun will drive him nuts. What if a heavier easier to shoot, all steel manly man’s pistol makes the world go around. I poo pooed snub nosed 357 revolvers for decades, but the most accurate pistol in my collection has been a SP101. What about a red dot. . . What about this or that. . . The list goes on and on about personal preferences, but the bear braining professionals would expect a young kid to figure out his ideal wife before even dating. Get a 22 and start the dating process.

When your fancy new big pistol comes home, you need to stop going out to eat for a year - order pizza, stay home and spend that money on ammo. You lack years of experience and muscle memory so there is no way around range time - at least a box of ammo every weekend, preferably two, every week, all year.

 

[HuntHarder]

Of all my handguns I own, my glocks are the most reliable and require the least amount of cleaning. Accuracy is good and they are lightweight. Both times I've went to Ak hunting, I carried a Glock 29 with the magazine extention. The 19 frame is what fits my hand the best, just wanted a little more wallop.

 

[omicron1792]

Lol I went into private industry. But sure.

@omicron1792, I realized I didn’t respond to this. My apologies.

100% agree. I never said it’s proven as reliable.


I was being tongue-in-cheek to your response of “source: science” by saying “source: science professor.” For all you know I could’ve taught at the Bahamian School of Ganja Science.

Haha. All in good fun.

 

[FuddRucker]

HK VP9 has the best ergonomics for my hands. Makes it easy to be accurate.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't see that this had become a bear defense thread. I'll see myself out.

 

[Tod osier]

This has gone kind of a new direction for these threads. Very few of the attacks and none of the self defense killings I know of (and I watch them carefully) happen at night. Bears are obviously active at night, but there is a dramatically lower number of problems at night (probably because people are less active at night, yes there are a few in tent attacks).

My personal feeling is that a successful bear defense at night is going to be a bear at the fringe when you are dealing with an animal and it is testing the boundary and gives ample time for preparation (lights and readying the gun). The other scenario is in an actual attack and a gun is drawn after contact and the bear killed by feel at point blank range (which has occured in the light, I don't know of an example of this in the dark).

Finally, I think it would be exceptionally unlikely that a bear would surprise charge and a gun deployed in the the dark before contact successfully, light or not. That does happen in the day, but I don't think it has ever happened in the dark.

 

[HighUintas]

This has been a bear defense thread from the beginning. While I didn't ask for cartridge or ammo or weapon light or red dot recommendations, there's some knowledgeable guys here so why not cover all the bases for a pistol newbie.

 

[FuddRucker]

This has been a bear defense thread from the beginning. While I didn't ask for cartridge or ammo or weapon light or red dot recommendations, there's some knowledgeable guys here so why not cover all the bases for a pistol newbie.

Missed the bear defense bit in the middle of your post! My bad. It was not exactly front and center.

Bear defense or not, highly recommend HK. Regardless of what you choose as a "pistol newbie" you'll need lots of practice to be prepared for a bear encounter that calls for it.

 

[HighUintas]

The primary purpose of a weapon-mounted light in most applications is not target ID - it's target disorientation.

Weapon-mounted lights are a deeply misunderstood thing. The impact of all that light does two very important things that give you an edge: it causes a quick short-circuit of decision-making in most humans, and also hammers their eyes' ability do what they need to do, jamming wide-open pupils at night down to tiny pinpricks. It does this to their eyes even in bright daylight, but the effect is most dramatic at night and in darker structures. This gives you anywhere from a fraction of a second to a couple of seconds of your own decision-making time for shoot/no-shoot.

Unless there is an extremely compelling and specific reason not to have a WML, such as deep-cover concealed carry where minimal footprint means saving your life, a weapon-mounted light is a tremendous advantage.

As with everything discussed in this thread, personal experience and training with your gear is important - some lights can be so bright inside a hallway with white walls that they can mess with your own eyes, so be sure to experiment with yours in various conditions. I see zero disadvantage at all with one on a woods gun, all upsides. Even the extra bit of weight on the end will help keep your muzzle down for better follow-up shots.

That is a good point. I've startled and ran off so many bull moose while trail running at night with a very bright spot headlamp. Round a corner, nearly run into a moose, shine it's eyes and it takes off.

My experience is very limited compared to many on this thread but I'll share something I've noticed regarding lights.

I've come to strongly prefer a pistol mounted light to a headlamp in the dark. I had an experience that led me to add one to my pistol after missing a coyote that was harassing my dog while we were out trail running early one morning. I'm not the best shot with a pistol anyway (working on it) but having the light behind the pistol and shining on it (headlamp) was very distracting for me as it was much brighter on the pistol than it was on the coyote 25 yards away. I had iron sights on that pistol but I've also noticed that a headlamp caused issues with a red dot as well. Same thing, with the light shining from behind it messes with the brightness on my Halosun and I can't see the red dot in the dark because I have a bright light shining on it from behind. With a pistol mounted light that problem goes away. Yes it's more bulky with the light on but for my uses I've determined it's worth having.

Don't use the pistol light for target identification, but once you know you're going to shoot at something it's the best way to illuminate the target in the dark.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro using Tapatalk

Yes, I've drawn my bow back on a problem black bear once at night with my headlamp on to see if aiming would be possible (wouldn't leave, didn't have spray or pistol). No it was not. I've also just tried to practice at night with a headlamp for various reasons, and it doesn't work.

I expected the same result with iron sights that you mention.

 

[HighUintas]

Missed the bear defense bit in the middle of your post! My bad. It was not exactly front and center.

Bear defense or not, highly recommend HK. Regardless of what you choose as a "pistol newbie" you'll need lots of practice to be prepared for a bear encounter that calls for it.

Absolutely. I did look at the hk vp9 but there is no manual safety option.

 

[Lawnboi]

My experience is very limited compared to many on this thread but I'll share something I've noticed regarding lights.

I've come to strongly prefer a pistol mounted light to a headlamp in the dark. I had an experience that led me to add one to my pistol after missing a coyote that was harassing my dog while we were out trail running early one morning. I'm not the best shot with a pistol anyway (working on it) but having the light behind the pistol and shining on it (headlamp) was very distracting for me as it was much brighter on the pistol than it was on the coyote 25 yards away. I had iron sights on that pistol but I've also noticed that a headlamp caused issues with a red dot as well. Same thing, with the light shining from behind it messes with the brightness on my Halosun and I can't see the red dot in the dark because I have a bright light shining on it from behind. With a pistol mounted light that problem goes away. Yes it's more bulky with the light on but for my uses I've determined it's worth having.

Don't use the pistol light for target identification, but once you know you're going to shoot at something it's the best way to illuminate the target in the dark.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro using Tapatalk

Honest question because I havnt tried it. Mounted light on a pistol being used at the same time as a headlamp. I’m curious if that would make any difference.

Sounds like I need to do some night shooting practice more often.

 

[HighUintas]

Let's jump back to ammunition for 9mm.

I've seen recommended any quality barrier blind ammunition.

What about grain? I think federal has some that are only 124gr.

Obviously, bullet shape matters. I wouldn't want a rounded bullet bouncing off the bear skull. Flat, maybe wadcutter type.

I see speer gold dot, g2, and federal hst and federal punch. Not sure about other options... Those are the most common I see that are referenced as barrier blind

 

[twall13]

Honest question because I havnt tried it. Mounted light on a pistol being used at the same time as a headlamp. I’m curious if that would make any difference.

Sounds like I need to do some night shooting practice more often.

I haven't tried that with iron sights but it doesn't work with my red dot as the light shining on the red dot messes with the brightness and makes the dot nearly invisible. I may have to play around with it a bit myself. There's no replacement for practicing and gaining personal experience to know what works for you.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Lawnboi]

I haven't tried that with iron sights but it doesn't work with my red dot as the light shining on the red dot messes with the brightness and makes the dot nearly invisible. I may have to play around with it a bit myself. There's no replacement for practicing and gaining personal experience to know what works for you.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro using Tapatalk

I’d guess as much for a longer range shot. I just don’t see drawing my pistol, turning on my light, then turning off my headlamp in most situations. I’ll have to give it a go.

 

[Skydog]

Absolutely. I did look at the hk vp9 but there is no manual safety option.

Do you really want to be fumbling around with a manual safety with a grizzly bear charging you?

 

[HighUintas]

Do you really want to be fumbling around with a manual safety with a grizzly bear charging you?

That's what the training is for. If I can become proficient enough to have even a slight chance of getting a few shots on target at 10 yards for a charging bear, I expect flipping the safety with my thumb on the draw would be second nature