More elk killed by mtn lions than wolves?

[jmcd22]

Not sure I believe this...thoughts?

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/l...daho/277-1e263f7e-6a11-49cb-ada1-8bf39185284e

 

[KClark]

If it is true it will change when the wolves kill all the lions.

 

[KHNC]

If it is true it will change when the wolves kill all the lions.

Yep, the wolves are gonna be pissed when they find this out!

 

[slick]

http://fwp.mt.gov/fwpDoc.html?id=73152

Why’s it so hard to believe?

 

[Ross]

I can comment in my north Idaho backyard only over 39 years...mt lions were there I found a few cat kills and winter kills and experienced some baddd winters epic 96 in the spring we found the occasional dead few and I walked up on a cat eating a calf we stared through the scope and I let it go..now bring in wolves for ten years we find groups dead and faces chewed and many mature bulls dead did the wolves kill all of them no but did they kill more than the few kitties around yes indeed and the number of tracks and trail cam pics of wolves say it is so cat pics have remained the same but wolf pics wayyyy up

 

[black dawg]

http://fwp.mt.gov/fwpDoc.html?id=73152

Why’s it so hard to believe?

Not hard to believe...…..in that area.

 

[BuzzH]

http://fwp.mt.gov/fwpDoc.html?id=73152

Why’s it so hard to believe?

Hard for some to believe because it doesn't fit an agenda...

 

[IdahoHntr]

From what I understand, this study looks at Idaho as a whole. This skews the numbers in my opinion as there are still parts of this state that don't have very many, if any wolves (That's a shocker to some I know!). Mountain lions are dispersed through out the state with healthy populations, and some of the heavier density cat populations in the state are those areas with fewer wolves. Kind of weird to compare the two for the whole state when one predator is evenly dispersed throughout the state while the other is still more localized to particular areas.

If you took this study elk zone by elk zone I think it would tell a vastly different story. I'd wager that the elk zones with well established wolf populations see more elk killed by wolves than by cats. You can't tell me that the Lolo zone has more cat kills than wolf kills. I promise it doesn't.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

Hard for some to believe because it doesn't fit an agenda...

Yup, and if it doesn't fit, then the science is BS.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

If you took this study elk zone by elk zone I think it would tell a vastly different story. I'd wager that the elk zones with well established wolf populations see more elk killed by wolves than by cats. You can't tell me that the Lolo zone has more cat kills than wolf kills. I promise it doesn't.

Not vastly different,

The Bitterroot study in MT cited above is a defined zone that has both cats and wolves, and mortality by cat is greater or equal to that of wolf.

 

[IdahoHntr]

Not vastly different,

The Bitterroot study in MT cited above is a defined zone that has both cats and wolves, and mortality by cat is greater or equal to that of wolf.

That study proves my point even further. The estimated population of cats in that study area is 3 times bigger than the estimated wolf population and they killed the same number of elk. Think about that for a second.

I'm not saying cats don't kill elk, or aren't a significant killer of elk even, but in high wolf population areas, such as the Lolo zone, I guarantee wolves kill more elk than cats.

 

[BeaverHunter]

I'm tagging in on this thread just because I know it's going to get good.

 

[92xj]

I didn't read the study but is there a comparison between population size of cats vs wolves in the study area? Did they account for the different in comparing kill stats?

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

Yeah, it's all pretty crazy in that zone. Reading that the area used to have 16,000 elk...seems very high, and now there's 11 wolf packs and about 1,000 elk. Seems like a specific case study though, and lots of other factors at play. No doubt the wolves are now crushing the elk there, especially over cats.

 

[Trr15]

Not sure I believe this...thoughts?

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/l...daho/277-1e263f7e-6a11-49cb-ada1-8bf39185284e

Not 100% on topic, but I just came back from a scouting trip to Wyoming and Colorado. I was amazed at the number of lion kills i found in northern Colorado. On one peak alone, I found 6 relatively fresh, lion killed deer. All within a radius of about 500 yards. Whether they kill more elk than wolves, I have no idea, but I am damn sure that they are efficient and effective predators.

 

[IdahoHntr]

I didn't read the study but is there a comparison between population size of cats vs wolves in the study area? Did they account for the different in comparing kill stats?

I'm curious too. I wonder what the actual number of elk killed per wolf or per cat is. Idaho doesn't have an estimated population of mountain lions for the entire state. They do for wolves. Based off the harvest numbers of mountain lions, a very lowball estimate of the mountain lion population would still put the moutain lion population in Idaho quite a bit larger than the wolf population.

Cats are deadly predators, and I'm sure they are a significant predator on elk, but again it seems like this study is comparing apples to oranges a bit. To me it sure seems like this study can't help a whole lot without an estimated population of both predators.

 

[Riles1050]

I believe it. I think cat kills are less emotional for some for a couple reason. They seems to take care of their kills and kill sites better by removing the animals and often bury it. A pack of wolves rips the animal apart and leaves a ton of sign showing what happened. Also, Cats have been around for a long time in most our hunting spots. The wildlife and ourselves got a custom to the amount of animals they take (and leave in the population). Now that wolves are around it is another top predator eating into the population that was left by the lions.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I wish they would break it down to regions. Lots of micro-climates in Idaho.

They didn't point out how wolves make cats kill more because they do take over cat kills.

Wolf packs also push elk much more in the snow. Making them easier targets for all predators.

 

[Blinginpse]

Do all of you in the west kill a wolf when the opportunity arises? From way it sounds they've ruined everything that way

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[Ryan Avery]

Do all of you in the west kill a wolf when the opportunity arises? From way it sounds they've ruined everything that way

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They are defiantly worse in some locations. Remote areas are hit the hardest. Areas with heavy timber are a close second.

As for killing them, I have shot one. I will shoot any legal wolf I see. But like cats, you will rarely see them. Trapping is the best way to kill them but if you have been to Idaho, you know that's no picnic either. It's steep and deep then add snow.