Idaho’s Disappearing Deer & Elk

[Super tag]

I too live in wolf country, I can guarantee you, that our local herds are decimated because of wolves, I have personally seen 11 wolves single file in a line watching a panicked herd of elk, figuring out their attack strategy. We used to have several herds of elk winter with 1/2 mile of us, for as long as I can remember, Now they’re all gone. I personally killed a wolf that was eating on a newborn calf before it was completely birthed, the wolves were eating right out of the cow, she was also killed. We find sport kills all the time, game left to waste, killed for sport.

Most of those who advocate for the wolves have no idea. We need to get rid of them before it’s too late. There are far too many.

 

[sneaky]

Like I said before, you live there and observe the elk. I don’t. I respect your perspective on it.

Do you see predator control as the best option for management? Or something else? Do you think the elk could rebound on their own in the long term? Don’t mean to bombard you with questions just interested in your opinion on management

If you look at numbers only, people will say the elk herd numbers are at their highest levels historically. What they leave out is how the distribution of elk has shifted. Wilderness areas are pretty devoid of ungulates now, while more open country and large tracts of private are seeing increases from elk relocating. Everyone is about to get a ringside seat to what happens after wolf introduction over the next 10-15 years in Colorado. The moose in Colorado are about to run into a buzz saw. I used to see a cow and calf moose every day on my trapline this winter. Then it was just the cow... then it was neither.

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[Ross]

Who on this feed has decades of real time backcountry experience before wolves were introduced? Without this knowledge it is both difficult to understand what and where the changes are and how they have decimated elk herds? Trust what the people in the know are telling you and who literally live in wolf country….so many think these things eat grass all year long, plain silly…latest news letter great story about 3 of these being taken out at once there is a big reason the panhandle has no elk objective

 

[Button]

Human overpopulation is more worrisome than wolves.

 

[Trap]

Pretty hard to compare numbers of elk concentrated on winter range to density numbers during the rest of the year. I can count elk from my yard this time of year, and then go find their carcasses all summer from wolf, bear and lion kills. I could easily say "wow, elk are everywhere" on winter range, and know from first hand experiences that their numbers have taken a beating realistically. Enough to where these units are below objectives for elk.

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Wolves pushed a lot of elk close to town and onto ag ground around my elk spots. Appears to be large numbers of elk till you hit the high country where they belong. There is an awful lot of EMPTY elk habitat these days. Worse part is the crop damage is leading to more cow tags, damage tags. It’s kind of a double whammy for the elk. But it looks like there is a lot of elk from the road! These wolf threads get old. Always someone telling us elk populations are nuanced and multi faceted and it’s habitat loss. Pretty hard to read when you have seen with your own eyes what wolves have done. It’s a pointless discussion I think. Buzz will chime in shortly tell me my house dog and the lions ate all the elk. If I hear scientific study one more time I’m going to puke. Just keep trapping wolves The pro wolf crowd won’t listen until all the elk are gone. ( maybe they might listen or actually spend enough time in wolf country to see it themselves)

 

[Trap]

I don’t think this should be something that divides us. We both like hunting, and we’d both like to preserve good hunting opportunities into the future. Conservation and biology is far from a simple, black and white issue. It is complex and multifactorial. I urge you to be open to nuance and acknowledge our common ground rather than make absolute statements and assumptions.

I think we have common ground and agree as hunters we need to stand together. With that said mulitifactorial,nuanced and complexity are buzz words used as smoke and mirrors. Look at where wolves were dumped-look at elk herd populations 25-30 years later. Not multi faceted it’s 1 plus 1 equals 2. The old bullshit talking points from 1995 won’t work anymore we have 27 years of on the ground proof. Too many people have witnessed the facts in real life. Biased peer reviewed “science “ won’t work anymore. We already lived the case study in Idaho, we know what too many wolves do. Don’t need to get rid of them but we need to get their numbers down to original objectives

 

[.204smokechaser]

Idaho is an interesting state in how the habitat types vary from the Southern part of the state to the Canadian Border.

Wolves in many areas are the reason for piss poor elk numbers, especially where sneaky is. I’d argue however that in some areas the lack of fire in the form of lightning started fires or prescribed fire has led to loss of feed for the states ungulates. The RMEF has been giving money the last several years to the Forest Service to do burns in the Clearwater Region. For those of you who don’t believe fire is good, time to get educated on fire and perhaps scroll around google earth looking at the frank church and portions of the selway to see mosaic patterns. Tons of peer reviewed literature on fire and the benefits to big game animals.

In the portion of the lolo zone I’ve hunted the last few years, I’ve noticed the elk numbers increasing after IDFG nuked a wolf pack. Goes to show we need wolf management as well.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

There’s a reason the farmers and ranchers in far northern Minnesota have been shooting every wolf they see for decades and decades.

I’ve seen first hand what they can do to big game herds in very short time spans.

 

[riversidejeep]

No development issues in the Clearwater, back up and try again. You think it's mere coincidence that elk numbers are down 80% in the same time frame that wolves were introduced? Bit of a stretch to blame that on climate change. Bet you believe that "wolves change rivers" too.

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Don't forget that now there are grizzly roaming the Clearwater, I'm sure they like elk meat also. I've taken to packing a little bigger sidearm when fishing now.

 

[sneaky]

Idaho is an interesting state in how the habitat types vary from the Southern part of the state to the Canadian Border.

Wolves in many areas are the reason for piss poor elk numbers, especially where sneaky is. I’d argue however that in some areas the lack of fire in the form of lightning started fires or prescribed fire has led to loss of feed for the states ungulates. The RMEF has been giving money the last several years to the Forest Service to do burns in the Clearwater Region. For those of you who don’t believe fire is good, time to get educated on fire and perhaps scroll around google earth looking at the frank church and portions of the selway to see mosaic patterns. Tons of peer reviewed literature on fire and the benefits to big game animals.

In the portion of the lolo zone I’ve hunted the last few years, I’ve noticed the elk numbers increasing after IDFG nuked a wolf pack. Goes to show we need wolf management as well.

What's sad is to see all those glorious burns in the Frank and the Selway that are completely devoid of ungulates because of out of control predators. The feed is there, they just don't have a fighting chance.

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