might get laughed at but thats ok....handgun for Griz

[jmden]

"hoplophobia" - not sure I've heard that before, but there's sure alot of folks it seems to fit, or at least the media makes it seem so...

National Park Service: Discharging Firearms for Self Defense is Illegal - The Truth About Guns (Nat'l Parks and firearms)

Probably worth watching: Carrying Guns in National Parks - The Legal Brief! - YouTube

Hmm... Spokesman says Glacier gun incidents an anomaly in national parks | Outdoors | helenair.com The guy in Glacier Nat'l Park who shot a bear (first used bear spray which he said did not deter the bear apparently) was charged by NPS Rangers (no big surprise--that agency is very PC in my decades of experience with them...) two months after the incident, but then federal prosecuters dismissed the charges.

 

[Backyard]

Just educated myself you can carry guns in park since 2010 where have I been?

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Can carry 'em, just can't use 'em.
Laws & Policies - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

 

[jmden]

Can carry 'em, just can't use 'em.
Laws & Policies - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

You can and should use them if absolutely necessary:

Spokesman says Glacier gun incidents an anomaly in national parks | Outdoors | helenair.com

 

[kbaerg]

Here is some info
Laws & Policies - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

My wife and I carry in the park anytime we go.( the park is only 65 miles from my house) you can't carry inside a few buildings so just be mindful of the signs on the doors.

 

[jorgensen.travis]

if you are just buying a handgun now to use as protection against a bear I would give you about a 1:10,000 chance of successfully using that gun in the even of a bear attack. Guys who train regularly and are proficient with a gun often fail under pressure. Be careful. Make sure you both have spray, make sure it is always on you, and make sure you know how to deploy it. It will save your life.

Why would you think you have to train with a handgun but not with bear spray? It’s about getting it out and on target quick and efficiently no matter what you use.


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[dotman]

HA rather have the gun than the Duramax...don't have tp pay payments for 6 years on the gun..one payment and its mine
we will have spray also but also I'm confident with a gun. have I ever fired one under diress. no but I think both of us would feel better with one than without.
as far as the firearm rules my CCW is valid in Montana and Wyoming.
and from what I have read as far as carry laws you can legally carry a gun in the park with a valid CCW licence but cannot fire one in the park. but I would take a fine over being ate LOL

Why would you conceal carry in the bear woods, it’ll just slow you up if needed. Man up and don’t pander to the Californian tourists and open carry otherwise probably not worth it as a bear is much faster then any human attacker. I always open carry when my family and I hike and I get looks but who cares.

 

[Huntindog45]

Why would you think you have to train with a handgun but not with bear spray? It’s about getting it out and on target quick and efficiently no matter what you use.


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Ummm... think i covered that...


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[Beendare]

.357 with a good load would be just fine.

This is a really good read from an AK pilot who is a hardcore gun guy.

HK USP 45 field pistol



Essentially he now uses a USP 45 loaded with .45 Super due to reliability, performance, and the fact that other good .45 loads are easy to find.

Yeah, thats GJM....an SME if there ever was one. He opened my eyes to these semi autos and that thread on Pistol forum is a must read for anyone packing a pistol in bear country.

So many guys running a couple mags through their chosen weapon and calling it good.....not.

GJM isn't the only one singing the praises of HK reliability with heavy loads. Check YouTube. My HK's are the only semi auto I own that my nieces and wives buddies that don't shoot much cannot limp wrist and force a malfunction. They eat anything. Plus my USP didn't need a barrel change or modifications like the G20's...or G21's.

The bad news is I didn't stockpile .45 super ammo before the "no shipping" ban here in Ca. Heck, they don't even stock it at my LGS....sheesh.

 

[Rick Leathley]

Another G20 fan.


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[Beendare]

Worth copying...great post below. That vid was informative as were the links to actual cases

"hoplophobia" - not sure I've heard that before, but there's sure alot of folks it seems to fit, or at least the media makes it seem so...

National Park Service: Discharging Firearms for Self Defense is Illegal - The Truth About Guns (Nat'l Parks and firearms)

Probably worth watching: Carrying Guns in National Parks - The Legal Brief! - YouTube

Hmm... Spokesman says Glacier gun incidents an anomaly in national parks | Outdoors | helenair.com The guy in Glacier Nat'l Park who shot a bear (first used bear spray which he said did not deter the bear apparently) was charged by NPS Rangers (no big surprise--that agency is very PC in my decades of experience with them...) two months after the incident, but then federal prosecuters dismissed the charges.

 

[Crippledsledge64]

As grizzlies become more and more common again it'll be interesting to see how the public reacts to them and bear incidents. It'd suck to survive a grizz attack by having to kill the bear only to butchered by the media afterwards. I know in Todd Orr's podcast with Newberg he states his bear spray worked on the first attack but he didn't get to use it on the second. He also stated he now carries a handgun (I think 10mm) as a backup for his spray now.

 

[Beendare]

As grizzlies become more and more common again it'll be interesting to see how the public reacts to them and bear incidents. It'd suck to survive a grizz attack by having to kill the bear only to butchered by the media afterwards. I know in Todd Orr's podcast with Newberg he states his bear spray worked on the first attack but he didn't get to use it on the second. He also stated he now carries a handgun (I think 10mm) as a backup for his spray now.

The bear spray worked????? Did you see the pictures?

If the bear comes back more ticked off than before.....thats not my definition of 'It worked"...and BTW, there are multiple examples of that happening.

 

[harge57]

The bear spray worked????? Did you see the pictures?

If the bear comes back more ticked off than before.....thats not my definition of 'It worked"...and BTW, there are multiple examples of that happening.

Guessing you didn't listen to the podcast?

Spray basically worked the first time. Bear still knocked him down but left really quickly. He just crossed paths with the bear the second time out of shear bad luck.

Oh by the way he had a pistol in a shoulder holster the whole time.

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[Where's Bruce?]

Why would you conceal carry in the bear woods, it’ll just slow you up if needed. Man up and don’t pander to the Californian tourists and open carry otherwise probably not worth it as a bear is much faster then any human attacker. I always open carry when my family and I hike and I get looks but who cares.

I always enjoy those looks, don't you?

I practice drawing my .44 and spray simultaneously using different hands. Takes two seconds.

 

[jmden]

GUN WATCH: Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by Caliber

I ran across this link either in this forum or another and thought it interesting. Seems like pistols have done pretty well against bears overall if this information is accurate. I've looked more into this the last couple of years including contact with folks that live on Kodiak Island and the like and my impression is that there's not as much faith in bear spray as we 'seem' have down here. These contacts caused me to start taking another look at the 'cure all' bear spray and I've run across a number of cases since where it did not deter the bear which resulted in injury or fatality--some of these incidents in AK in just the last 2-3 years. Have had numerous encounters with bear/wolves in the US and Canada, some of which were or bordered on predatory. Have harvestd 6 bears in Washington State over the last several years. I believe now, where my current understanding is, that if I had a charging bear (I don't care what color the bear it is--black, brown, white or a mix of all three) and it got to within 20 yards, my intent would be to kill it, plain and simple, with the firearm I had at the time.

I think the incident that occured in Glacier NP a couple of years ago, linked to a couple of times above, where the guy shot a griz with his .357 has likely set legal precedence to a degree where folks shouldn't worry about the outcome as much as we do. Just make sure you had no choice and make sure and tell the bear that 'I fear for my life' as your shooting! I'd rather be in some legal trouble than dead or someone around me dead or grotesquely injured because I froze due to legal fears--that'll sort itself out later. If it is a person attacking you/others, the same holds true legally. Why should a 'special bear' be any different? Better to have a 'later' to sort things out legally, than not. If there's someone with you, have a preplan that includes one of you shooting and one of you spraying as plan A, depending on situation, but realizing this may go out the window immediately, given the situation. But again, I think there's more issues with the spray than is commonly promulgated. I think some of these articles touting how effective bear spray is that have come out 2-3 years ago need to be updated and some viable more recent information regarding failures included now and, frankly, I'm not sure I've seen a good article on bear spray in the last year or two since several well publicized incidents where it failed.

 

[jmden]

'Frontcountry'? I'd carry concealed.

'Backcountry'? I'd open carry.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Interesting link about the usp and 45 super, I may need to test that one out myself even though I’ve found the Glock 20 to be 100% reliable, so much so that I’m strongly considering ditching my redhawk 44 and putting the funds elsewhere.

 

[muddydogs]

As a guy that spent a summer backpacking throughout Yellowstone off the beaten trail with only bear spray at my disposal I would tell you not to be worried about bears and have a good time. The key to most bear encounters is to not have them and to not have them one needs to make a little noise while hiking around. In 100's of miles hiking around Yellowstone I never happened across a bear but I made sure they new I was coming, one doesn't have to be obnoxiously loud just not still hunting quiet. As for camping last I knew one has to have a camping permit to camp in Yellowstone and there's a year or two waiting list for one.

When I visit Yellowstone or Glacier now I carry my .40 cal and a can of bear spray. Figure if the spray doesn't work and I have a chance to draw the .40 then a full mag will either do the job or it won't. I'm more concerned with the Bison and moose then any self respecting bear as the bear will split if they hear you coming but the Bison and moose tend to stand around waiting for you to get there then decide if there going to run off or stomp your guts into the ground.

 

[DEEF]

Just to be fair, how well did his handgun serve him?

Also, another good article and things to consider.
The Cold Hard Facts of Bear Deterrents: Bear Spray vs Firearms – MeatEater

End of the day, be bear aware and practiced with the deterrent you decide to use.

Yup, bear spray was Todd's first defense tactic. Prior to his experience, he trusted bear spray to avoid the attack. I believe he states moving forward he is carrying a .44mag revolver and a 10mm.

The biggest take away everyone emphasizes and values is the need to train with any protocols chosen and stay very vigilant and attentive in Grizz Country.

 

[DEEF]

Interesting link about the usp and 45 super, I may need to test that one out myself even though I’ve found the Glock 20 to be 100% reliable, so much so that I’m strongly considering ditching my redhawk 44 and putting the funds elsewhere.

Glad you've had good experience with our G20. Which ammo do you run?

I read on CalGuns.net a user who had mixed reliability with ammo on their G20 10mm. He referenced 200 Grain XTP as being the only ammo that didn't give them problems.

Shooting non-hollows is preferred and makes me want to pay more for a Sig, Kimber, or Armscor model.