MAP - Public Lands for Sale in US Senate Bill

[gelton]

What point are you trying to make? Like I don’t get it. We use public lands and enjoy hunting them so we are advocating for them. You are likely not in a position to benefit from their sale etc… so, what is your objective?

Specifically, what bed do you think I made?

My objective is to point out we are all on the same team and should act like it, regardless of what someone's license plate reads.

 

[PLhunter]

First they came for trapping, but I wasn't a trapper, so I didn't speak up. Next, they came for spring bear, but I don't bear hunt, so I didn't speak up. Next, they went for those who didn't want wolf reintroduction, but I think wolves are vital to the landscape, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for non-residents, but I am a resident, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for our public lands, and no one was left to speak up for me.

Who here did any of that though? You’re creating a straw man to be arguing against. Who here didn’t speak up for those things? Like where is this coming from? It’s bizarre.

 

[gelton]

He sounds mad that western guys want to restrict his tag allocations to where he can only hunt his 10 acres.

So, he’d rather see all the land go to get back at those who don’t give him OTC tags for elk or something


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If I thought my way was the only way I wouldnt give two shits about access to hunt our public lands, what I am saying is if you want a coalition then make us feel welcome.

 

[PLhunter]

My objective is to point out we are all on the same team and should act like it, regardless of what someone's license plate reads.

K cool, lol your method of communicating that was a whirlwind. Yeah sure. Same team. The Lee bill sucks for all. Unite.

 

[PLhunter]

Yes but not the forests, the timber companies would buy large tracts of land and probably allow access to hunt.

Probably but you have no actual say or public process. Many in Oregon don’t allow or you have to pay. Also, I’m just not a fan of hunting logging roads and logged areas all the time. Not everything has to be producing money to have value.

 

[sasquatch]

If I thought my way was the only way I wouldnt give two shits about access to hunt our public lands, what I am saying is if you want a coalition then make us feel welcome.

I am a non resident just like you my friend, no matter how unwelcome a resident makes me feel I won’t support giving the lands up.


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[gelton]

K cool, lol your method of communicating that was a whirlwind. Yeah sure. Same team. The Lee bill sucks for all. Unite.

Funny, though, how nobody was talking about unity when Western states were rooting out non-residents. I'm not just talking about OTC in Colorado; many Western states also rooted out other Western non-residents, yet there was not a peep.

 

[PLhunter]

Showing up late to this one and didn't read the whole thread, but one absolute thing is that residents in every western state have argued more for residents and less for anyone else, which leads the rest of us to shrug our shoulders a bit when things like this happen. Especially given the fact that most of the loudest voices against this didn't make a peep as our country went $36,000,000,000.00 in debt.

Well you came in pretty hot and accusatory for wanting to be welcomed with open arms. Hard to pull this out of your initial post that you’re just wanting a better together approach. Not everyone can simultaneously advocate for or against all things all the time. That’s why groups and orgs have scopes and focus. Nothing in this bill will reduce the debt. It’s been shown to grow it. So that’s not really here or there regarding this specific topic.

Additionally, I haven’t seen anyone here coming to support public lands as a vocal critic of nonresidents. Usually that lies on the other end of the logic spectrum.

 

[PLhunter]

Funny, though, how nobody was talking about unity when Western states were rooting out non-residents. I'm not just talking about OTC in Colorado; many Western states also rooted out other Western non-residents, yet there was not a peep.

Not a peep!? lol, did you read the threads here and everywhere regarding price increases etc.. you’re making up a false enemy that’s not here right now.

 

[gelton]

Well you came in pretty hot and accusatory for wanting to be welcomed with open arms. Hard to pull this out of your initial post that you’re just wanting a better together approach. Not everyone can simultaneously advocate for or against all things all the time. That’s why groups and orgs have scopes and focus. Nothing in this bill will reduce the debt. It’s been shown to grow it. So that’s not really here or there regarding this specific topic.

Additionally, I haven’t seen anyone here coming to support public lands as a vocal critic of nonresidents. Usually that lies on the other end of the logic spectrum.

It's apparent that the "mood" of Western states is that they want more for their residents and less for others, and this sentiment is widespread.

My point is the same as it has been for a decade, and while I don't agree with everything Randy Newberg says or stands for, he often points out the importance of making the pie bigger, whereas the majority of western hunters are all about claiming the pie for themselves.

This results in a populace that is many times greater than that of Western states, which become immune or incapable of caring about the loss of access when they have been losing access for decades.

 

[PLhunter]

If they don’t pass the bill everyone’s taxes go up.

I find this hilarious. lol, they are the ones in power. “Support our shitty bill or it’ll raise taxes.” Who will? “The government.” Well aren’t you the government now? Couldn’t you just make the bill less shitty or not raise our taxes seems how you’re in power? “Nope, best I can do is this….” Then everyone acts like, well they had to do it, it was this or higher taxes?

Like no the **** it wasn’t there were a ton of options and they are the ones who made the false dichotomy to begin with. It’s like having the hostage negotiator and hostage taker as the same damn person then getting freed and lauding the “negotiator” as a hero.

Point being there isn’t any excuse or definite need for much of what is in this bill. Tax increases are manufactured by them to scare people into doing things against their interest like the issue at hand. Call me crazy but I’d pay the same taxes or even a hair more if it meant better funding and resources for seeding, habitat, access etc…. So this scare tactic doesn’t really get me. The tax cuts for me, if there are any, will probably only be enough annually to fill up a few tanks of fuel anyway at the most. That is not worth any of this. Not even worth one of those shotty barren lots they speak of.

 

[PLhunter]

It's apparent that the "mood" of Western states is that they want more for their residents and less for others, and this sentiment is widespread.

My point is the same as it has been for a decade, and while I don't agree with everything Randy Newberg says or stands for, he often points out the importance of making the pie bigger, whereas the majority of western hunters are all about claiming the pie for themselves.

This results in a populace that is many times greater than that of Western states, which become immune or incapable of caring about the loss of access when they have been losing access for decades.

Who is this majority? Also, it’s not unique. I’m yet to be invited by a non western Hunter to share the wealth and hunt their private land for free as a point of solidarity. Your arguing a different issue imo and putting words in a lot of folks mouths that they haven’t said.

 

[COelk89]

Some of the comments here are absolutely ludicrous. I see why I avoid Rokslide for the most part these days. There is really nothing productive to be gained by someone with at least a handful of brain cells and critical thinking skills. About half this forum are trolls, or maybe just foreign bots to stoke the flames.

The culture of the majority of the west is literally built on a foundation of public lands. Forget debt, housing, hunting, and tag allocations. The reason people live here and there is this supposed housing shortage is because we have public lands. Most of the ideal land for human habitation is already in private hands/cities. We have water shortages for the population already here in the Colorado River Basin, specifically lower basin. Salt Lake drying up will be an environmental disaster, but lets build more there...The idea that land is the limiting resource for more people is preposterous. Not everyone gets to live where they want, and it is that simple...if you can't afford it, sorry you hate capitalism. Make more $.

 

[elkhunter505]

I can’t remember who said this in another forum earlier but it’s their credit. We don’t have a housing crisis. We have an inability to see 10-15 years into the future. The baby boomer generation is going to fall out eventually and the birth rate has in no way kept up to be able to replace them. There’s going to be housing. Additionally, I know a ton of people who live in western cities that would be just fine living in apartments because they just hike or backpack rather than hunting. Acting like we can’t build up rather than out is ridiculous.

 

[Poser]

Yeah but either way this won’t be a factor when the bill passes or doesn’t, the bill will pass at some point with give and take but this is not something that is on the radar of things that matter.

If they don’t pass the bill everyone’s taxes go up.

I agree its not an important issue, but if they have to start ripping this bill apart, the public land issue could come out. Zinke has stated he won't approve the bill with this section in it.

Meanwhile, Republican Rep. Ryan Zinke (Mont.) has also spoken out against the plan.
“I have said from day one I would not support a bill that sells public lands,” he wrote Wednesday on X. “I am still a no on the senate reconciliation bill that sells public lands.”

If his heels are truly dug in on this issue, that one republican vote could stop the whole bill from passing. It sounds as if there are at least a handful of other republicans who won't approve this as well. I don't know if its a hill they are willing to die on or not, but there are other issues in the bill that some Republicans seem prepared to take a MAGA bullet for.

If they want to address the tax code, they may have to suck it up and do a stand alone bill. That will definitely result in Trump retaliation of some sort, but it may not be near as consequential as it was just 2 weeks ago. Some of these Western senators and congressman could definitely get voted out in 2026 if they vote "yes" on a bill that sells off public lands.

 

[Ozarkansas]

First they came for trapping, but I wasn't a trapper, so I didn't speak up. Next, they came for spring bear, but I don't bear hunt, so I didn't speak up. Next, they went for those who didn't want wolf reintroduction, but I think wolves are vital to the landscape, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for non-residents, but I am a resident, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for our public lands, and no one was left to speak up for me.

This is willfully ignoring all the western hunters who spoke up about all of these issues.

Look, I get it. You’re bitter about having limited western hunting opportunities as a resident of an eastern state. I’m from Arkansas and do the vast majority of my hunting in Arkansas. So as a hunter, this wouldn’t really affect me at all. I can see the appeal of sitting this one out.

The problem is that this country’s rules are built on precedent, and this sets the precedent that it’s okay to sell public lands to balance a given fiscal year’s budget, and that we can circumvent the rules in place to do so. That’s a powerful tool that lawmakers aren’t just going to let sit unused.

There’s nothing stopping that same logic from applying to eastern public lands, even the scraps of USFS land in east Texas (yes I’ve hunted there plenty). In a few years when they’re selling chunks of the Sam Houston National Forest to build yet another Houston suburb, you’ll be saying “then they came for our eastern public lands, and there was nobody else to speak for me”.

 

[sasquatch]

This is willfully ignoring all the western hunters who spoke up about all of these issues.

Look, I get it. You’re bitter about having limited western hunting opportunities as a resident of an eastern state. I’m from Arkansas and do the vast majority of my hunting in Arkansas. So as a hunter, this wouldn’t really affect me at all. I can see the appeal of sitting this one out.

The problem is that this country’s rules are built on precedent, and this sets the precedent that it’s okay to sell public lands to balance a given fiscal year’s budget, and that we can circumvent the rules in place to do so. That’s a powerful tool that lawmakers aren’t just going to let sit unused.

There’s nothing stopping that same logic from applying to eastern public lands, even the scraps of USFS land in east Texas (yes I’ve hunted there plenty). In a few years when they’re selling chunks of the Sam Houston National Forest to build yet another Houston suburb, you’ll be saying “then they came for oureastern public lands, and there was nobody else to speak for me”.

He won’t care, he kills 140s off his porch


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[sasquatch]

Let’s visualize, ok we sold ALL our public lands to pay down .5% of our debt

30 days later the interest rate washes the pay down away and we right back to 36T. Now what do we sell? Our rivers?

Our monetary problems require serious spending changes to ever resolve, anything different is just for show to get reelected as if they’re trying.

Every bill they pass is a new SPENDING bill with a catchy name. I’ve never heard of a savings bill

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[COelk89]

If you live here, you are fully aware another big part of the "housing crisis" is second homes, corporate/PE rentals, and airbnbs.

 

[Poser]

I would like to invite all of you NRs complaining about hunting tags to take summer backpacking trip out West. Bring your fishing rods. Bring your glassing setup. Hike a section of the Continental Divide, explore a new state, experience the mountain West in the summer.

If you are only experiences these public lands for hunting and you're only doing that on a limited basis, you're missing out big time. Its a life recalibrating experience on par with any hunting trip you'll do.