Less Recoil than .308 Win... BUT can still take a Mule Deer @650yds. Which Catridge?

[tt_johnsclist]

Whatever cartridge or caliber you choose, it will have to generate a fair bit of recoil in order to maintain deer killing power out to your stated 650 yards, that’s just physics. Most of the cartridges listed by others can do that, but still towards the top end of their loads. If that is still too much recoil you are probably best managing FELT recoil through form, stocks, recoil pads, heavy or semi-auto guns, and brakes (if you can stand the noise). Another alternative is to get closer.

 

[Sobrbiker]

Yep, funny shit...

Some real-world data at 1425 yards between the 260, 6.5CM and 6.5x47. Both the 260 & 6.5CM were shooting Prime Ammo the x47 hand loads.

The .260 was 12.7 mils, the 6.5CM was 13.1 and the x47 was 14? So, a 20.5" elevation advantage to the .260 over the 6.5 @1425?

Interesting that less elevation is needed for 260...Almost like it has better downrange ballistics and I guess +50-90fps does matter.

Which Prime loads, what load in the X47, what was the DA on the day/days these were shot? Because I’d have a hard time believing that none of the loads at the quoted distance were not in the throes of going transonic, therefore casting a dubious haze on that data point.
And I’d imagine the 260 was not a Saami necked chamber, was it?

Then again, you might be right...

 

[Dswartz]

6 creedmoor is the obvious choice to me. Less recoil and flatter than a 6.5 and factory rifles and ammo is build around modern bullets unlike the 243.

He needs something that he can get ammo for easy, 6 creedmoor is great for us guys that reload

 

[Dswartz]

Hrmm... ok... so sounds like he'd probably NOT do well with 6.5 CM then. Hrmmm.... meh... sounds like it'd probably be best if I end up getting like a .243 Win. And just realize I'm gonna have to put in some work to figure out how to close the distance in that Open country setting. (Which is definitely going to be challenging/interesting, but I guess that's why they call it hunting and not shooting, right?

my 6.5-284 kicks less than my 243, just saying

 

[gexpro]

id say 6.5PRC for less recoil. i recently built a 300PRC for mule deer and bear. with a muzzle brake the recoil is not bad at all, and it shoots like a laser 600+ yards. cant wait to see how it performs on target.

side note - kestrel with applied ballistics is a game changer.

 

[Dswartz]

And they don't show how many they missed or wounded in those highly edited videos either

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For all the haters out there on long range, go buy a gun, a good gun, buy the optics, buy a range finder and practice, there are guns out now that 500, 600, 700 are chip shots I own one.

 

[wind gypsy]

He needs something that he can get ammo for easy, 6 creedmoor is great for us guys that reload

maybe it’s regional but the last handful of times I looked on ammo shelves at fleet farm, scheels, and runnings there was always suitable 6 creed ammo.

 

[sneaky]

maybe it’s regional but the last handful of times I looked on ammo shelves at fleet farm, scheels, and runnings there was always suitable 6 creed ammo.

He's in California though

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[sneaky]

For all the haters out there on long range, go buy a gun, a good gun, buy the optics, buy a range finder and practice, there are guns out now that 500, 600, 700 are chip shots I own one.

We own good guns, good glass , rangefinders, and practice. Good for you that you can shoot that far as well, it's fairly common. I could shoot all day with iron sights at 500m with an M16A1 too and call my shots as soon as the shot broke. Was nothing to go 10/10. Big deal. Doesn't mean I'm gonna recommend that to someone hunting. You act like you're the long range wizard, no offense, but the names that I recognize for long range shooting don't include yours.

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[TheGDog]

Just an FYI/Example... looks like even if I wanted to pop for a new .25-06 out here... only thing I was finding for example at BassPro was :

.25-06? = 1 - Savage Axis (and I'd rather have AccuTrigger like an Axis II or better).
243 Win? = 30 models.
6.5 CM? = 62 models.

So yeah. Me not liking muzzle brakes. Wanting a light rifle for hiking in 5-7miles. I've been making predator stands more and more lately as well. And it being one where if the boy is with me, it'll be in his hands instead of mine. And he's on the thinner side (gets it from his Mama, definitely not me) and not a whole lotta range time with centerfires yet (Yeah yeah I know, but me either for that matter, one of the pitfalls of living in a metro area, but hey, I do like being able to ride a bicycle to the beach so what can I say? Gotta take the good with the bad.)

Looks like a .243 Win would be the better choice for my set of circumstances over here. And yeah, I'd probably have to kiss the 650yds bye-bye. But I feel certain it could do 400yd, So that *should* still be in the realm of possible with a bit more stalk-in. The stalk-in will just be difficult in that location is all. And will require some patience as well.

 

[shooterrdy]

I have a 20" .308 with an American Precission Arms little bastard brake and Its a soft shooter with 165 grn. Loads its loud but very mild.

 

[Lawnboi]

The problem with the 243 is many of the chambering s are varmint rounds, and many rifles made are twisted for varmint rounds. Having a 243 tikka turned into a 6.5 creed for this very reason. Wife and I shot 7 deer with the 243 out to 300 yards. Not a gun I’d be shooting much further with, but it did the job.

6 creed is getting popular, I see the same thing happening with the 6 and 243 as the 6.5 and 260.

And really guys, we are going to argue over 50fps being an advantage at range.... really. To us shooting deer sub 600 yards that dosnt mean squat! On top of that the guy is shooting factory ammo that likely has an ES that spans the gap your claiming makes it so much better. For the purposes provided by the OP, they are the same damn thing, except one has much more factory ammo available for it now.

As for 308 light loads, run the numbers through a calculator, I think you will find that your not going to be close to reaching your range goal.

 

[2ski]

He never said his 13 yr old would be shooting that far. Reading comprehension these days....

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It could be implied by his post. So la ti da to you too. My reading comprehension is fine. Is your critical thinking? I have my doubts....

 

[Rob5589]

In California? Probably forever on a suppressor

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Forever and a day...

Since you aren't reloading, look in depth at available lead free ammo. That right there may decide for you.

 

[TheGDog]

RE: Reloading right now I just have a Lee Hand Press. So that slows things way down, and that's fine, because I'm learning.

Eventually want to get a setup on a bench. Likely with removeable turrets and all that where once you've got O.A.L. and bullet seating depth all hunky-dory where you want it you just remove the whole thing and put it back on later for low maintenance. All in due time.


Anyhoo... like I said... given the constraints of the boy in this as well... from looking at the numbers 6.5 CM looks like a no go. I see for sure that .243 Win is lower than typical .30-30 Win recoil numbers so I know that should work for him. Meanwhile I'll just continue on with the .308 Win when I go to that more Open Country desert hills place. Yeah... I don't look forward to the shots with it like I do the smaller calibers. But it's *ok. I just think I'd enjoy it more with less recoil. But for the budget for now, if I want the potential to reach-out to 650yd, I'll just have to stick with that in the meanwhile. Just is what it is. And like they say, in hunting it's just one shot, so oh well.

Been dragging my feet on getting my moto fixed and sold and outta the garage. The pilot jet got gummed up a while back when I shattered my wrist (while hunting, not on the bike!) and didn't ride it for awhile, then we had all those rains out here in CA. It starts up and runs, just wants to die when you crack the throttle, so pilot jet most likely has some varnish from sitting for that time. And money's been tight for awhile cause a few unanticipated BS things happened. Like a slab leak in the floor by the kitchen sink. The cements dry on that so now gotta start on the tile patch. And this particular moto (A Honda PC800) is a pain to get in at inner workings because the engine is all encased in plastic and then underneath the plastic there is also two halves of like styrofoam moldings which further quiets it and prevents heat radiation from affecting the plastics. They are ultra reliable though otherwise. There are several known instances of 250,000+ miles on them.

Perhaps this is a good time to re-focus back in on that so I can drum up some funds to explore more rifle options. Also got a small moto the boy grew out of that I need to liquidate, that could help as well.

Man... a brother really has to dump some serious duckets to get a lighter-weight rifle offering now doesn't he? The few rifles I've browsed thru that raised my eyebrow in terms of their nice carrying weight, boy they have a nice healthy price! Ouch! Get what you pay for I guess.

 

[TheGDog]

The problem with the 243 is many of the chambering s are varmint rounds, and many rifles made are twisted for varmint rounds. Having a 243 tikka turned into a 6.5 creed for this very reason.

What kinda twist rate would I need to handle the typical 80gr Barnes TTSX's?

Also, since coyotes would be part of the menu for the 243... if I get a twist rate that can support the big game loads, it should also be able to stabilize the lighter load too right? And I mean, no big deal if it doesn't.. I can just use my .223 Rem instead.

 

[txhunter581]

It's not that I'm "ignoring it"... it's just that I hop into the websites for nearby retailers I'd most likely be going to for the ammo, and the selection for that caliber seems real sparse. If I can help it... I'd rather not buy something that's going to create a headache/hassle for me in terms of supporting it's feeding habits. And I know that sounds weaksauce to many of you with lots of time under your belt rolling your own. But it is what it is.

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It lists in stock ammo. And you can do a narrow search by brand name, bullet size etc

 

[Rich M]

I assume this was just a typo, but just to avoid causing the OP any confusion, the above quote is quite inaccurate. The 6mmCM and 243 are basically a toss-up velocity-wise with the same bullet weights. In fact the 243 has slightly higher case capacity.

6mmCM case, ammo, and rifle designs are more geared toward heavy, high BC bullets than the common 243 offerings.

I reload the 243 and did some online research for 6 CM due to the barrels having faster twist. Swear I saw data that said CM was 300 fps faster with 100 gr NP. Decided to stick w 243 for now as I'm old and don't have a lot of options for shooting ranges.

Checked Nosler data and confirmed that you are 100% correct. Not sure where I got the 300 fps number. Stand corrected.

 

[ZachW]

I have a 6.5cm and I shoot out to 700 regularly using the 143gr ELD-X ammo out of a Remington 700 and it is super accurate, I head shot a doe at 400 last year. Just get comfortable with the gun and get some practice out to the longer distances and you will be good.

 

[Dswartz]

We own good guns, good glass , rangefinders, and practice. Good for you that you can shoot that far as well, it's fairly common. I could shoot all day with iron sights at 500m with an M16A1 too and call my shots as soon as the shot broke. Was nothing to go 10/10. Big deal. Doesn't mean I'm gonna recommend that to someone hunting. You act like you're the long range wizard, no offense, but the names that I recognize for long range shooting don't include yours.

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