Less Recoil than .308 Win... BUT can still take a Mule Deer @650yds. Which Catridge?

[Lawnboi]

Hey... to those of you using this .260 Remington. Do you have to pretty much exclusively handload for your selves?

The 6.5 cm basically fixed what was wrong with the 260, same can be said for the 6 cm and 243. both 243 and 260. Very similar cartridges, I see no reason a guy would go 260 if your not a hand loader and dealing with more mag box space there’s not a reason to go 260.

I see your in CA I don’t know for sure but disregard the suppressor comment seeing as everything is illegal out there. If it’s not a suppressor is the ticket, it’s a wait but they cut down noise, recoil and concussion. And as I said before I’m not putting a kid behind a braked gun in a hunting situation. I won’t even shoot my brakes guns at the range without doubling up hearing pro.

 

[TheGDog]

I don’t know why you keep completely ignoring those of us who are suggesting the .25-06 but it really is gonna fit the bill you’re looking to fill


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It's not that I'm "ignoring it"... it's just that I hop into the websites for nearby retailers I'd most likely be going to for the ammo, and the selection for that caliber seems real sparse. If I can help it... I'd rather not buy something that's going to create a headache/hassle for me in terms of supporting it's feeding habits. And I know that sounds weaksauce to many of you with lots of time under your belt rolling your own. But it is what it is.

 

[JakeSCH]

@TheGDog honestly my braked 300 WM has significantly less recoil than my unbraked 308. That said, it would a simple barrel change to make that 308 a 260 rem (I would recommend the 127 LRX).

What rifle are you shooting? Something like replacing the stock can have a huge impact on felt recoil. Limbsaver also makes a big difference on "felt" recoil.

 

[TheGDog]

Savage Trophy Hunter, I think it's their model 11/111.

It's not that this single particular rifle kicks unusually bad or anything. I just think if I dropped-down to a lighter recoiling rifle that I'd enjoy myself more is all. Reason I chose .308 Win to begin with is ammo availability and everyone said for sure it'd be able to handle a black bear should I get lucky and one cross my path out there.

I've just sorta been realizing now with all this fun I've been having with my lil .17 HMR and .223 Rem, that I don't need something that goes BANG super hard is all.

So for now short-list looks like:
Try .308 loads in 130gr or 110gr and re-assess.
Try .25-06 (Now they've got me curious about it, darn you!)
Try .243 Win
Try 6.5 CM

 

[JakeSCH]

Savage Trophy Hunter, I think it's their model 11/111.

It's not that this single particular rifle kicks unusually bad or anything. I just think if I dropped-down to a lighter recoiling rifle that I'd enjoy myself more is all. Reason I chose .308 Win to begin with is ammo availability and everyone said for sure it'd be able to handle a black bear should I get lucky and one cross my path out there.

I've just sorta been realizing now with all this fun I've been having with my lil .17 HMR and .223 Rem, that I don't need something that goes BANG super hard is all.

So for now short-list looks like:
Try .308 loads in 130gr or 110gr and re-assess.
Try .25-06 (Now they've got me curious about it, darn you!)
Try .243 Win
Try 6.5 CM

I would highly recommend adding muzzle brake to that list. I never shot with them until recently and its impressive how big of a difference it makes.

 

[Rich M]

I read it that the kid would be shooting that range too. Either way, a little practice for both of you and I'm sure both could shoot that range without any problem. Why some folks put limitations on kids is beyond me.

I like my 243 but have a 400 yd shot limit, other stretch it further. If you are buying a new gun the 6 CM is a 243 with 300+/- fps more velocity and should work at 650 yds if you do your part.

The 6.5 will work too. 7mm-08 will work too. Between these 2 I'd get the 6.5 due to ammo availability being better.

Kudos on not putting a muzzle break on your gun. They should be banned at public ranges - lots folks will be wearing hearing aids in the future due to using them. If you can't shoot a given rifle, step down in size, don;t make your neighbors have to eat your muzzle blast.

 

[sneaky]

For all those saying that a 13-year-old shouldn't be shooting deer at 650 yards, I will just say I have seen PLENTY of very proficient young long-range shooters. One of the best at my prior range was two nine-year-old twin girls shooting .223's and banging targets at 1,000 yards...one might say, but yeah those are just targets and I would say, check out the video below.

Given the right training, it can be done.

And they don't show how many they missed or wounded in those highly edited videos either

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[sneaky]

Wow I think I know how Trump must feel right now.

At least 3 different times now... it's been clarified... and then re-clarified that we are NOT.... talking about a kid taking a 650yd shot.

"Is 'dis 'ting On?"


Anyway... Rob... I'm right there with ya man... I know and understand that taking shots without ear pro is no bueno. Especially since I have the hearing severely compromised on one side. My hearing of highs is greatly reduced on one side due to a trauma related to a basal skull fracture back in like '97.

Also... I really got into enjoying nice moderately strong (About 1000Watts RMS) car audio there for a period. But then when I got into hunting I realized I needed to stop that.

That's why I'm investigating some in-ear solutions. I can't really do over the ear because I'm employing 3D leafy suit in order to achieve bow-range 25-35yds opportunities at this one spot.

.17 HMR shots don't bug me. .223 Rem shots... after a lot of them it can start to bug (one windy day where I was having a bear of a time hitting this one Ground Squirrel at 104yds)
.30-30 shots only mildly bug. No real persistent ring or anything.
.308 shots though are down right unpleasant, and ring for awhile. I could do without them being unprotected (hence why I'm beginning to explore in-ear hear-pro options. Also I wear glasses too so they make wear muff-type hear-pro make ya sore after awhile from how it pushes down on your glasses frame arms).

These questions are coming about because I'm due to receive a refund for a prior weapon purchase which the manufacturer verified it could not accurately fire the lead-free I would need here in CA. So I was thinking I'd explore getting a caliber that's less recoil than the .308 Win... but that could still possibly if called upon could make a shot like that. And if both I and the boy were out together,and in more Open Country, it'd probably end up being in his hands, and I'd still have to carry the .308 Win.

But we don't yet go out together for big game. Would kind of like him to maybe experience getting a coyote before then if possible. And NO... there is NO way in HELL I'd let the boy try shots w/ centerfire without ear-pro! Just so everybody is clear.

I'm liking what I'm hearing there Wind Gypsy. RE: flatter trajectory. The .17 HMR has made me a fan of flat trajectory! I've actuallybefore now... in terms of ditching the .308 Win... have been going back and forth re: 243 Win and .22-250. Since most of the time I'm looking at 200-300yds tops. 300 being rare.

But Like I said... the thing of it was.. this one place I've been going to for coyotes and ground squirrels though... it's big Desert Hills. And had this group of like 6 Does totally not seeing me in my leafy suit when I crested over a finger like 600-650yds away from them. So it got my wheels to turning. I mean... ya know... go with what ya have... sure... but if I could do it with less recoil I'd be happier. My shoulders have seen better days, between weights and dirtbikes.

Get a 7mm08 and shoot 120gr TTSX out of it and be done. Light recoiling, and you can always step up in 7mm bullet weights to achieve different goals.

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[sneaky]

What platform? And how much/ how long does it take to get the Ok for a suppressor?

In California? Probably forever on a suppressor

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[sneaky]

You are doing yourself a disservice by not considering a 7mm08. Ammo is widely available, better selection of bullet weights, light recoiling, many youth rifle options. It just isn't trendy like the 6.5CM but has been killing stuff for a lot longer time frame. Factory deer killing copper loads for it are easy to find so you don't have to reload.

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[jstamper1979]

Since you have to go with lead-free, you might want to take a close look at Hammer bullets for whichever chambering you go with. They reportedly have better terminal performance at distance (where you generally need a softer, more readily expandable bullet) than some of the other lead-free options.

Of all the options in your narrowed-down list, the 308 with 110-125 bullets is going to be the most frustrating to get ironed-out for longer range shooting. Pick whichever of the others cartridges catches your fancy, but remember that lead-free really does change the calculus on long-range terminal performance compared to what most of us are using.

 

[Sobrbiker]

.260 Rem...Which also has better downrange ballistics than a 6.5 creed.

That’s some funny shit right there! A 140gr Class bullet fired at 2800 from a 260 vs a 65CM vs a 65x47 vs any other .264 140gr at the 2800ish fps sweet spot for those bullets ALL HAVE THE SAME DOWNRANGE BALLISTICS!!

This isn’t theory, I’ve played the 6.5 vs 6.5 game in long range comps for a long time (been shooting a 65CM SINCE ‘09 too).

 

[jstamper1979]

the 6 CM is a 243 with 300+/- fps more velocity

I assume this was just a typo, but just to avoid causing the OP any confusion, the above quote is quite inaccurate. The 6mmCM and 243 are basically a toss-up velocity-wise with the same bullet weights. In fact the 243 has slightly higher case capacity.

6mmCM case, ammo, and rifle designs are more geared toward heavy, high BC bullets than the common 243 offerings.

 

[Berger024]

That’s some funny shit right there! A 140gr Class bullet fired at 2800 from a 260 vs a 65CM vs a 65x47 vs any other .264 140gr at the 2800ish fps sweet spot for those bullets ALL HAVE THE SAME DOWNRANGE BALLISTICS!!

This isn’t theory, I’ve played the 6.5 vs 6.5 game in long range comps for a long time (been shooting a 65CM SINCE ‘09 too).

Yep, funny shit...

Some real-world data at 1425 yards between the 260, 6.5CM and 6.5x47, in order 12.7 Mils, 13.1 Mils and 14.0 Mils to hit the same target. Both the 260 & 6.5CM were shooting Prime Ammo the x47 hand loads.

The .260 was 12.7 mils, the 6.5CM was 13.1 and the x47 was 14? So, a 20.5" elevation advantage to the .260 over the 6.5 @1425?

Interesting that less elevation is needed for 260...Almost like it has better downrange ballistics and I guess +50-90fps does matter.

Out to 500 yards, they're within .15 or so mils of drop and then the .260 slowly starts to pull away. So getting back to what I said, the .260 Rem has better downrange ballistics.

 

[TheGDog]

Kudos on not putting a muzzle break on your gun. They should be banned at public ranges - lots folks will be wearing hearing aids in the future due to using them. If you can't shoot a given rifle, step down in size, don;t make your neighbors have to eat your muzzle blast.

I had to change out the standard A2 on the AR15 because this is CA so "F**k your Freedom!". So understood I *had* to put something technically considered a muzzle-break instead. At the time I didn't know they made thread caps for them or I'd have gotten that instead. But it's already on there now, so for now I'll leave it. I usually grab for the bolt gun most of the time anyway because of the bladed trigger.

We'll see if that changes, I have a CMC Two-Stage Drop-In replacement trigger with a 2Lb set and 2Lb release waiting to put into it. The stock Bushmaster trigger was way too hard IMO. But this was marketed as a CQB type solution, so I get it.

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

My lightweight 6.5cm has barely any more recoil than my 243 shooting 105 Amaxes at 2925. If I was building a 243 10 years later, I would build a 6CM. I have become a big fan of the 6.5 CM and you use that for really almost anything from groundhogs to large game. The factory ammo blows away anything on the market for the 243.

 

[Dswartz]

So to all the people dissing on the kid shooting 600 yards, spend more time with your kids at the range, buy them a decent gun and have a little faith in them. are kids are only as good as what we teach them! now to answer the question, I shoot a cooper 6.5-284 norma and I would have no problems with anyone shooting 600 with that gun, now that's not a hardware store cartridge, now the 6.5 creedmore is a very accurate and the ammo is easy to come by, so I would go with the creedmore but spend as much as you can afford on gun and optics. light triggers are also huge key to shooting good groups and building confidence, either way make it fun! let us know what you choose.

 

[Lawnboi]

This thread has some funnies, it’s really derailed.

Brake vs no brake
600 yards plus a kid
260 vs 6.5cm
243 vs 6cm

I think it’s got it all.

OP you have a good list of things to try. Give them a go. All those rounds will kill things if you keep in mind impact velocity vs chosen bullet.

 

[jstamper1979]

All those rounds will kill things if you keep in mind impact velocity vs chosen bullet.

This is exactly right. Impact velocity and bullet construction are what matter to terminal performance; the name of the cartridge and how fast it went at the muzzle are both totally immaterial.

 

[gelton]

And they don't show how many they missed or wounded in those highly edited videos either

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I am just saying there are teenagers all over the United States that can outshoot many of us, like I said...given the right training.