Less Recoil than .308 Win... BUT can still take a Mule Deer @650yds. Which Catridge?

[mitchellmountain]

I know this won't be popular, but with how I have seen a lot of hunters shoot, that can be said for a lot of people.

ClearCreek

I am in complete agreement with this

 

[Dead eye BT]

GDog- If you’re a hand loader, an option for your 308 is lighter bullets. I load 130 grain Barnes TTSXs in my 308. Those rounds are definitely lighter recoiling than 150 grain loads and the BC isn’t bad.
I use 110 grain TTSXs for my 13 year old daughter’s 308, which I load down to 3100 FPS. Recoil is similar to shooting 100 grain loads out of a 243. On game performance has been stellar.
Just my thoughts on the subject. Best of luck to you and your son.

 

[TheGDog]

My 8 year old son shoots a suppressed 6.5 Creedmoor accurately to 300 yards.
.
.
.

What platform? And how much/ how long does it take to get the Ok for a suppressor?

 

[TheGDog]

GDog- If you’re a hand loader, an option for your 308 is lighter bullets. I load 130 grain Barnes TTSXs in my 308. Those rounds are definitely lighter recoiling than 150 grain loads and the BC isn’t bad.
I use 110 grain TTSXs for my 13 year old daughter’s 308, which I load down to 3100 FPS. Recoil is similar to shooting 100 grain loads out of a 243. On game performance has been stellar.
Just my thoughts on the subject. Best of luck to you and your son.

Thanks! Just barely getting my feet wet with reloading. Like literally the only thing I have handloaded so far were some .44 Mag's. For the moment I think I'll just shut-up and put more rounds downrange with 150's now, rather than the 168gr and see if maybe that helps me change my opinion here. I did notice a difference with 150's. I recently had to re-sight-in the new optic on that .308 Win and this time tried some 150's (Power Shok Copper's so not the greatest BC, but they were less expensive for initial zero-ing. And I mean... the target wasn't exactly at 100yd I don't think (I'd forgotten my range-finder, and the other gentleman had already left with his, when I finally had time to do my re-sight-in after we'd spent the day supervising all the boy scouts shooting. But it should have been pretty damn close to 100, long story, the backdrop on this private range was weird the backstop was angled. Initilly had that target out at 90yds, then when the scouts all left I could move it over to the slightly longer side that went the full 100yds. Tell ya this though, my last shot after the last adjustment was dead-on the center of the bullseye! And I was predictably seeing how my clicks were shifting the POI with each re-adjust.

Yeah, I'd seen those 110gr loadings and was thinking about at first maybe giving those a try for coyotes. And seeing if I liked 'em.

 

[def90]

Coming from a person that has hearing damage/loss on top of tinnitus (my ears ring just like I got out of a metal concert 24 hours a day) I will add that anyone not wearing some sort of ear protection is doing a disservice to themselves, hearing damage cannot be repaired.

If your state allows it I would go with a suppressor, that will kill two birds with one stone, reduce recoil and reduce hearing damage. I still recommend wearing ear pro even with a suppressor.

I’ve shot .308 for most of my adult life, personally I find it to be a pretty soft shooting round. With the right technique if you are holding it tight in to your shoulder you can just let your upper torso rock back with it absorbing the recoil without any sharp kick or real force on your shoulder, I find that most people that complain about kick are shouldering their firearms way to loosely and are much too rigid in their shooting stance.

 

[Newtosavage]

6.5 CM kicks more like a .308 than .243 IMO. .243 is the answer to the OP's question, but I agree with the "forget about the 650 yards" comment for a kid. 200 is a poke for most 13 year olds - even those that grew up shooting. But of course, everyone thinks their kid is the exception to the rule.

 

[TheGDog]

6.5 CM kicks more like a .308 than .243 IMO. .243 is the answer to the OP's question, but I agree with the "forget about the 650 yards" comment for a kid. 200 is a poke for most 13 year olds - even those that grew up shooting. But of course, everyone thinks their kid is the exception to the rule.

Hrmm... ok... so sounds like he'd probably NOT do well with 6.5 CM then. Hrmmm.... meh... sounds like it'd probably be best if I end up getting like a .243 Win. And just realize I'm gonna have to put in some work to figure out how to close the distance in that Open country setting. (Which is definitely going to be challenging/interesting, but I guess that's why they call it hunting and not shooting, right?

 

[Buckweet]

Thanks! Just barely getting my feet wet with reloading. Like literally the only thing I have handloaded so far were some .44 Mag's. For the moment I think I'll just shut-up and put more rounds downrange with 150's now, rather than the 168gr and see if maybe that helps me change my opinion here. I did notice a difference with 150's. I recently had to re-sight-in the new optic on that .308 Win and this time tried some 150's (Power Shok Copper's so not the greatest BC, but they were less expensive for initial zero-ing. And I mean... the target wasn't exactly at 100yd I don't think (I'd forgotten my range-finder, and the other gentleman had already left with his, when I finally had time to do my re-sight-in after we'd spent the day supervising all the boy scouts shooting. But it should have been pretty damn close to 100, long story, the backdrop on this private range was weird the backstop was angled. Initilly had that target out at 90yds, then when the scouts all left I could move it over to the slightly longer side that went the full 100yds. Tell ya this though, my last shot after the last adjustment was dead-on the center of the bullseye! And I was predictably seeing how my clicks were shifting the POI with each re-adjust.

Yeah, I'd seen those 110gr loadings and was thinking about at first maybe giving those a try for coyotes. And seeing if I liked 'em.

They do make low recoil rounds for kids might be a option also

 

[tommy1005]

What platform? And how much/ how long does it take to get the Ok for a suppressor?

It’s a Curtis action with a 22” Mueller barrel. Stamps for the suppressor are running about 12 months the last I heard.

 

[Buckweet]

Thanks! Just barely getting my feet wet with reloading. Like literally the only thing I have handloaded so far were some .44 Mag's. For the moment I think I'll just shut-up and put more rounds downrange with 150's now, rather than the 168gr and see if maybe that helps me change my opinion here. I did notice a difference with 150's. I recently had to re-sight-in the new optic on that .308 Win and this time tried some 150's (Power Shok Copper's so not the greatest BC, but they were less expensive for initial zero-ing. And I mean... the target wasn't exactly at 100yd I don't think (I'd forgotten my range-finder, and the other gentleman had already left with his, when I finally had time to do my re-sight-in after we'd spent the day supervising all the boy scouts shooting. But it should have been pretty damn close to 100, long story, the backdrop on this private range was weird the backstop was angled. Initilly had that target out at 90yds, then when the scouts all left I could move it over to the slightly longer side that went the full 100yds. Tell ya this though, my last shot after the last adjustment was dead-on the center of the bullseye! And I was predictably seeing how my clicks were shifting the POI with each re-adjust.

Yeah, I'd seen those 110gr loadings and was thinking about at first maybe giving those a try for coyotes. And seeing if I liked 'em.

308 Win 125 gr SST® Custom Lite® - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

...

www.hornady.com

 

[TheGDog]

It’s a Curtis action with a 22” Mueller barrel. Stamps for the suppressor are running about 12 months the last I heard.

Sorry.. Question... RE: "Stamps for Suppressor" - Does a person have to buy the actual surpressor they intend to use and then fill out whatever form they must submit with that info? Or... do you submit some form.. and the money.... wait forever... then get back the stamp and then you can buy what they will allow you to buy?

 

[TheGDog]

308 Win 125 gr SST® Custom Lite® - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

...

www.hornady.com

Meh... I thank you for supplying the info here.. but since not lead-free.. won't help me, unfortunately.

 

[def90]

Sorry.. Question... RE: "Stamps for Suppressor" - Does a person have to buy the actual surpressor they intend to use and then fill out whatever form they must submit with that info? Or... do you submit some form.. and the money.... wait forever... then get back the stamp and then you can buy what they will allow you to buy?

you buy the specific suppressor that you want and pay for it, the dealer then takes it out of his inventory and puts your name on it and then helps you fill out all of the required forms and sends them in along with your $200 check, at some point in time the ATF lets your dealer know if you passed or not and calls you to let you come and pick up your suppressor.

Form 4 e-files (that’swhere you buy a suppressor from a dealers inventory and use the electronic filing system) are running about 200 days right now.

ATF eForm 4 Wait Times - Silencer Shop

These ATF wait times are based on recent approvals. Whether you're looking for suppressor wait times or an SBR tax stamp wait time, see what time frames are looking like now!

www.silencershop.com

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Easily obtained, commercial loads that are lead-free and produce "low" recoil will lessen your options for a viable round to take a deer at 650 yards. Hand loads will expand your options but will increase recoil due to higher velocities.

Here are some numbers. Your velocities may be higher, lower, or spot on. This also does not include any changes due to environmentals.
6.5 CM: Barnes LRX will barely get you to 650 yards before it crosses 1800 fps.
7mm-08: Barnes VOR-TX: Crosses the 1800 fps mark at 575 yards.
308 Win: The "best" (per your requirements) mono round for you is 150 gr Hornady GMX Super Performance. Even that will get you to just past 600 yards.
25-06: 100 gr Federal Trophy copper will get you to about 725 yards before it hits 1800 fps.
243: 85 gr Federal Trophy copper will hit 1800 fps just past 675 yards.

Look at adding a Limbsaver and/or adding weight to the rifle (or buy a heavier rifle). Brakes do work but they can hurt some folks ears even with two layers of hearing protection.

Do what you need to do for you. Let your son inform you on how much recoil he can handle (under your supervision). We all handle recoil differently. What is too much for some may not be too much for others. A person's physical size nor gender has any bearing on how they handle recoil.

 

[TheGDog]

Do what you need to do for you. Let your son inform you on how much recoil he can handle (under your supervision).

We'll see. When he was younger, like maybe 7-8, I let him shoot the .30-30 prone. While jazzed to be allowed to do it, he commented a bit back then and sounded like he didn't like what it did to his shoulder. And you know how they hold on to memories like that.

I think what might be wise here would be for me to have him re-visit the .30-30 to assess how he does with that round now that he's a bit bigger and let that guide me.

But I'm thinking with my side interest in coyote hunting, I'll probably just go with the .243 Win. That way I can also make use of all the loadings they have in .243 Win for coyote/varmint without having to fuss with it so much myself.

 

[BFR]

TheGDog I’m with you on recoil, but mine is age and arthritis. I shoot a 30-06 and was debating a 7mm08 after getting 2 for my grandkids. My gunsmith recommended a mercury recoil reducer, added about 6 ozs and would drop recoil to about what the 7mm08 was. I had it put in but haven’t had a chance to try it yet to see the result but everything I’ve read says it works. Now, if you just want a new rifle, you can’t go wrong with the 6.5 Manbun, 7mm08, or the various comparable calibers. They will all do the job.

 

[Rob5589]

GDog, we're in California so forget about a suppressor. Something important to remember, a properly fitting stock can totally change felt recoil. So many just throw a full size rifle at their kids and tell them to hang on, much to the disservice of the child. That and ear pro, which you have covered.

 

[TheGDog]

TheGDog I’m with you on recoil, but mine is age and arthritis. I shoot a 30-06 and was debating a 7mm08 after getting 2 for my grandkids. My gunsmith recommended a mercury recoil reducer, added about 6 ozs and would drop recoil to about what the 7mm08 was. I had it put in but haven’t had a chance to try it yet to see the result but everything I’ve read says it works. Now, if you just want a new rifle, you can’t go wrong with the 6.5 Manbun, 7mm08, or the various comparable calibers. They will all do the job.

Much like yourself part of my, meh, what we'll call *dislike* for the levels of recoil in the .308 Win is certainly from joint damage, and labral tears and the looseness I have in there after finally broke down and got some arthoscopic in there for a sub-acrymonial decompression. Ya see both of my collar-bones are "custom-bend" jobs! One I did with Titanium one without. The without out... my shooting side... the collarbone has quite a bit of tenting to it. So the distal end of the clavicle used to push down against the bursa sac in the shoulder, and would just jab the shit outta my bursa in the shoulder for example doing military press. It'd feel like you're getting stabbed with a javelin. And I mean... that kinda thing has just.. well it's just been my norm since forever. And you get used to pushing in the presence of pain. But... like mid-40's and into 50's... well... stuff just starts ripping apart when I'd try to push decent weight around. So I had to just stop. Because my pain threshold, I know how to push it far beyond, and do, when I'm in the zone and being aggro. And at a certain point your body looks at you and says "Now that is quite enough that young mister!" And reminds you who's boss with a scary feeling rip or a tear just to re-remind you what it's talking about.

And.... that's pretty much what kinda led me to get into hunting!

But anyhoo...for example... like prone is the worst! I can only do like 40 rds of .308 Win prone before I had to tap out. Thing of it is...the butt pad, on my jacked up crooked collarbones... when prone... it has a contact patch of about the size of a Quarter... that's it! Because of the way the bone is all tented up on that side. Plus I have a partial labral tear on that side still that would require surgery in order to debrade the tears and then to tighten-up the ligaments maybe with a staple or two.

And another piece of Titanium in the left wrist, that looks like a Gillette shaver... with 13 screws sticking out of it.

Anyway... you get the gist of what I'm saying. I had an active life filled with some occasionally intense crashes or moments of physical failure in the Gym.

For most of the time I'm cool with walkin' around with the .308 Win cause it's like...ok...well.. it's only gonna be 1 shot anyway.

And now since I'm looking for something a little lighter so I know the boy will take to it, I just figured maybe this is a question worth asking again, since there are all these new cartridges and loadings available for them now. Figured if it wasn't 6.5 Manbun...(hehe) that it'd perhaps be .243 Win. Or something similar in that arena/area. Kinda figured only 6.5 CM would be good for that kinda distance though in terms of lighter recoiling rounds. Sounds like I was right. So meh... go with .243 Win instead for now and see if dropping down to just regular ol 150gr .308's might be just enough help to make things not quite soo touchy in there afterward.

 

[TheGDog]

Hey... to those of you using this .260 Remington. Do you have to pretty much exclusively handload for your selves?

 

[Andrew12gauge]

I don’t know why you keep completely ignoring those of us who are suggesting the .25-06 but it really is gonna fit the bill you’re looking to fill


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