Lead in Meat Discussion

[EastHumboldt]

Seems like there’s a fair amount of poo-pooing the toxicity of lead. “I eat so much other toxic crap I’m not worried about lead!” There’s a reason it’s been banned from paint and gasoline, and that reason is it was showing up in the bloodstream of kids at damaging levels. In the case referenced above where the woman had a 6mm lead shot in her GI tract, it took her blood lead level 9 months to go from 550 down to 70 (max “ok” Number is 40). 9 months from the time she pooped out the shot to get back to a level that’s almost twice what’s considered ok. That’s some toxic pernicious stuff.

Im a hypocrite though. Still shooting ELDX. Tninking hard about switching though.

 

[Mike D Texas]

BM is too slow for copper bullets anyway

Say what?


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[johnnycake]

Seems like there’s a fair amount of poo-pooing the toxicity of lead. “I eat so much other toxic crap I’m not worried about lead!” There’s a reason it’s been banned from paint and gasoline, and that reason is it was showing up in the bloodstream of kids at damaging levels. In the case referenced above where the woman had a 6mm lead shot in her GI tract, it took her blood lead level 9 months to go from 550 down to 70 (max “ok” Number is 40). 9 months from the time she pooped out the shot to get back to a level that’s almost twice what’s considered ok. That’s some toxic pernicious stuff.

Im a hypocrite though. Still shooting ELDX. Tninking hard about switching though.

Agreed. I made the switch to copper for my big game hunting several years ago just because even marginal improvements to risk exposure for my kids is worth it to me. I happily then discovered that copper rounds were highly effective, caused less bloodshot meat damage, and cost pretty much the same. There were zero downsides.

 

[Bubblehide]

Seems like there’s a fair amount of poo-pooing the toxicity of lead. “I eat so much other toxic crap I’m not worried about lead!” There’s a reason it’s been banned from paint and gasoline, and that reason is it was showing up in the bloodstream of kids at damaging levels. In the case referenced above where the woman had a 6mm lead shot in her GI tract, it took her blood lead level 9 months to go from 550 down to 70 (max “ok” Number is 40). 9 months from the time she pooped out the shot to get back to a level that’s almost twice what’s considered ok. That’s some toxic pernicious stuff.

Im a hypocrite though. Still shooting ELDX. Tninking hard about switching though.

A piece of lead ingested and perged (the typical) is no big deal for an adult. A piece of lead stuck in the digestive tract is a very different story, obviously. The real issue is with children, as their brains are still in maturation, thus much more susceptible to negative affects of lead.

 

[flathead#2]

i'm just amazed we're not all dead by now.

 

[KenLee]

Say what?


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2200ish fps expected impact speed is my limit for good expansion of TTSX.
Barnes listed 450 BM ammo muzzle velocity is 2200 fps from a test barrel. That's a hard no for me.

 

[KenLee]

Agreed. I made the switch to copper for my big game hunting several years ago just because even marginal improvements to risk exposure for my kids is worth it to me. I happily then discovered that copper rounds were highly effective, caused less bloodshot meat damage, and cost pretty much the same. There were zero downsides.

????
I like bloodshot meat damage...behind shoulder that destroys vitals. Splatter bullets for the win!
Less DRT with copper bullets and having to track is the downside of copper bullets, in my experience.

 

[Marble]

Seems like there’s a fair amount of poo-pooing the toxicity of lead. “I eat so much other toxic crap I’m not worried about lead!” There’s a reason it’s been banned from paint and gasoline, and that reason is it was showing up in the bloodstream of kids at damaging levels. In the case referenced above where the woman had a 6mm lead shot in her GI tract, it took her blood lead level 9 months to go from 550 down to 70 (max “ok” Number is 40). 9 months from the time she pooped out the shot to get back to a level that’s almost twice what’s considered ok. That’s some toxic pernicious stuff.

Im a hypocrite though. Still shooting ELDX. Tninking hard about switching though.

What's interesting is I've heard a few different times that the human digestive tract is not acidic enough to break lead down to a form where it is readily absorbed by the body. Which is totally contrary to what other people say. I just heard this on a pod cast the other day from some Dr. Steve Rinnela had on. She also said raptor digestive tracts were very acidic, which is why a small amount of lead can lead to issues long-term for the birds.

I'm always so skeptical hearing info from either side. It seems each side cherry picks information in order to support their predetermined conclusion. I just want actual facts from an unbiased source that doesn't have any motivation to show one outcome or another.

That being said, I shoot both lead and copper. My experience is copper kills fine, makes smaller wound channels, and is more difficult to get it to expand. But shot in the right cartridges at the correct velocities, it is a great type of bullet. It doesn't seem guys have a hard time killing stuff with copper.

My lead bullets are easier to load for, are easier to get an accurate formula and expand better.

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[Wyo_hntr]

I have no doubts lead is toxic if ingested. That's why I don't eat it. I don't think people should eat copper fragments either.

Lots of things are toxic that the federal government isn't trying to ban.

It seems the first rule of shooting mono-metal non lead ammo, is to tell everyone you shoot mono-metal non lead ammo.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Lead isn’t good for you in any way. How you view the risk tolerance on this issue is no different than whether you want a scope that is drop tested.

I have no trouble killing stuff with copper and the only track job I’ve had with coppers was due to shot placement. It would have been a track job with lead core bullets as well.

I couldn’t care less about the politics of lead vs copper. Lead fragments into meat as evidenced by studies with x rays. Not going to criticize anyone one bit if they are cool with eating it.

 

[Mike D Texas]

2200ish fps expected impact speed is my limit for good expansion of TTSX.
Barnes listed 450 BM ammo muzzle velocity is 2200 fps from a test barrel. That's a hard no for me.

For typical high velocity calibers that is correct. However Barnes make several bullets designed to expand at lower velocities. The 300 TTSX in .458 was purpose designed to expand at 458 Socom velocities.

Also the .308 and 6.5 TAC-TX (black tip) rounds are specifically designed to expand at 1500 fps for the lower velocities produced by the 300 blackout and 6.5 Grendel.


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[Wyo_hntr]

Good thing you don't get lead exposure from merely shooting firearms...............

 

[Jason Snyder]

Good thing you don't get lead exposure from merely shooting firearms...............

And that’s why we tell people at the range to wash their hands and face prior to eating or drinking.

 

[Wyo_hntr]

And that’s why we tell people at the range to wash their hands and face prior to eating or drinking.

Hold your breath too.

 

[Flyjunky]

For typical high velocity calibers that is correct. However Barnes make several bullets designed to expand at lower velocities. The 300 TTSX in .458 was purpose designed to expand at 458 Socom velocities.

Also the .308 and 6.5 TAC-TX (black tip) rounds are specifically designed to expand at 1500 fps for the lower velocities produced by the 300 blackout and 6.5 Grendel.


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That’s great and all but what do they determine “expand”? From the pictures I have seen they are claiming expansion as little more than tip deformation.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Hold your breath too.

It’s about minimizing risk, not eliminating it.

First rule for lead bullet shooter must be trying to convince the everyone who used copper they are stupid.


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[Wyo_hntr]

First rule for copper bullet shooter must be trying to convince the everyone who used lead they are stupid.

I fixed your statement.

I don't care what you shoot.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I fixed your statement.

I don't care what you shoot.

Neither do I. I said that right up front. I don’t think you’re stupid for using lead, haven’t said that you were and I don’t care one bit if you do shoot it.


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[Jason Snyder]

Seems like there’s a fair amount of poo-pooing the toxicity of lead. “I eat so much other toxic crap I’m not worried about lead!” There’s a reason it’s been banned from paint and gasoline, and that reason is it was showing up in the bloodstream of kids at damaging levels. In the case referenced above where the woman had a 6mm lead shot in her GI tract, it took her blood lead level 9 months to go from 550 down to 70 (max “ok” Number is 40). 9 months from the time she pooped out the shot to get back to a level that’s almost twice what’s considered ok. That’s some toxic pernicious stuff.

Im a hypocrite though. Still shooting ELDX. Tninking hard about switching though.

I switched to coppers when my kids were young. They worked well enough for me I’ve never felt the need to change now they are grown and moving out.

Folks are right, there are a myriad of toxic chemicals and such we are exposed to. This one just seems so easy to mitigate.

 

[johnnycake]

????
I like bloodshot meat damage...behind shoulder that destroys vitals. Splatter bullets for the win!
Less DRT with copper bullets and having to track is the downside of copper bullets, in my experience.

????
Copper bullets create DRT animals whenever I use them. Sounds like operator error if your experience is different.