Lead ingestion health risks

[Formidilosus]

Yeah, I disagree. I know some really conservative scientists and consider myself to be an educated, well-travelled, gun-toting, hillbilly. The world is very politically divided these days and it’s dangerous to make assumptions about what tribe people align themselves with. Having been both in the research and policy worlds, I would say you have less to worry about with scientists than you think. Most of them are frankly too autistic to be corrupted by funding. Folks like that are not capable of lying, no matter what their academic lineage is. Advocates and policy people seem to be more morally fluid and financially driven.

I work and have worked with scientists and Doctors quite a bit, and my experience and the current writ large landscape in America mirrors @RockAndSage thoughts.

 

[BlueJay]

I work and have worked with scientists and Doctors quite a bit, and my experience and the current writ large landscape in America mirrors @RockAndSage thoughts.

I’m a practicing biomedical scientist and have been around them most of my adult life. You’re both right, it’s just a matter of degree and specifics. Most scientific topics aren’t political and the majority of good studies aren’t influenced by funders, that’s not really how grants and study sections work, at least if we’re talking about basic biological science. On the other hand, there are a number of hot button issues that have been hijacked by advocacy groups, and yes pharma/biased actors.

 

[Dave C.]

Ignorance is bliss. Enjoy

Hello Kettle, this is the pot calling.

 

[Dave C.]

I quit reading after “Big Pharma.”




P

Can't look in the mirror, eh? I couldn't either if I was part of an industry that was directly attributable to so much illness and death of innocent people.

 

[ElPollo]

Can't look in the mirror, eh? I couldn't either if I was part of an industry that was directly attributable to so much illness and death of innocent people.

Do you feel better now?

 

[Pharmseller]

Do you feel better now?

Everybody needs a bogeyman.

I’m glad to serve in the role.

And most of the people I’ve killed weren’t innocent.

P

 

[Pharmseller]

History and definition​

According to Steven Novella, the use of terminology such as Big Pharma has come to connote a demonized form of the pharmaceutical industry, described in an emotional fashion, which exists disconnected from the real-life complexity of business history.[5] Professor of writing Robert Blaskiewicz has written that conspiracy theorists use the term Big Pharma as "shorthand for an abstract entity comprising corporations, regulators, NGOs, politicians, and often physicians, all with a finger in the trillion-dollar prescription pharmaceutical pie".[1]

According to Blaskiewicz, the Big Pharma conspiracy theory has four classic traits: first, the assumption that the conspiracy is perpetrated by a small malevolent cabal; secondly, the belief that the public at large is ignorant of the truth; thirdly, that its believers treat lack of evidence as evidence; and finally, that the arguments deployed in support of the theory are irrational, misconceived, or otherwise mistaken.[1]

 

[ElPollo]

History and definition​

According to Steven Novella, the use of terminology such as Big Pharma has come to connote a demonized form of the pharmaceutical industry, described in an emotional fashion, which exists disconnected from the real-life complexity of business history.[5] Professor of writing Robert Blaskiewicz has written that conspiracy theorists use the term Big Pharma as "shorthand for an abstract entity comprising corporations, regulators, NGOs, politicians, and often physicians, all with a finger in the trillion-dollar prescription pharmaceutical pie".[1]

According to Blaskiewicz, the Big Pharma conspiracy theory has four classic traits: first, the assumption that the conspiracy is perpetrated by a small malevolent cabal; secondly, the belief that the public at large is ignorant of the truth; thirdly, that its believers treat lack of evidence as evidence; and finally, that the arguments deployed in support of the theory are irrational, misconceived, or otherwise mistaken.[1]

Sorry this is not directed at you. But what does big pharma have to do with the effects of lead in game meat?

 

[Pharmseller]

Sorry this is not directed at you. But what does big pharma have to do with the effects of lead in game meat?

You know, usually I’d rise to the occasion and write some amusing bullshit about animal testing (usually rhesus monkeys, Dutch white rabbits, or beagles, not kidding) and lead, with some obscure (hence hilarious) connection between them, but I’m just too tired tonight.

So, long story short, not a damn thing.





P

 

[Fireflyfishing]

I sprinkle lead and COVID on my cheerios in the morning.

And you’re still here…

 

[Dave C.]

History and definition​

According to Steven Novella, the use of terminology such as Big Pharma has come to connote a demonized form of the pharmaceutical industry, described in an emotional fashion, which exists disconnected from the real-life complexity of business history.[5] Professor of writing Robert Blaskiewicz has written that conspiracy theorists use the term Big Pharma as "shorthand for an abstract entity comprising corporations, regulators, NGOs, politicians, and often physicians, all with a finger in the trillion-dollar prescription pharmaceutical pie".[1]

According to Blaskiewicz, the Big Pharma conspiracy theory has four classic traits: first, the assumption that the conspiracy is perpetrated by a small malevolent cabal; secondly, the belief that the public at large is ignorant of the truth; thirdly, that its believers treat lack of evidence as evidence; and finally, that the arguments deployed in support of the theory are irrational, misconceived, or otherwise mistaken.[1]

Straight from a world-class nobody. Don't worry, the nation is already waking up and recognizing that this is not only untrue, but a ridiculously clueless outright lie. Must suck knowing your industry is about to take an epic financial hit as the American people finally see just how corrupt you all are.

 

[eric1115]

@fngTony please feel free to lock this thread if you see fit. I am super happy with the information and respectful discussion in the first ⅔ of it, and hope it can be a good source of info for people who are interested in figuring out what the real risks of lead are or are not. I haven't seen this all gathered together and evaluated this way anywhere else on the Internet, and would love to have this not turn into another 30+ page pissing match and hot dog measuring contest that adds nothing to the original topic.

 

[Predator_SD]

We are four pages in and people are arguing that eating lead is OK.

Eating lead is bad. Let's not pretend that there is no risk potential here. If the risk doesn't bother someone because of how they process game meat that's fine. But it's unlikely there is no risk.

The point they’re likely making is it’s WELL KNOWN that if you eat a chunk of lead it will pass through and be expelled out the old shoot. Your body isn’t dissolving and absorbing a lead bullet anymore than it would a rock you ate. Now factor in the chunks of lead you may eat in game meat are 1. small and 2. not a daily occurrence the risk of increased blood lead levels is nill. So no harm done in eating a lead bullet fragment. No one is likely arguing eating lead is good for you.

Now, if you’re eating or breathing lead dust or lead paint which is highly digestible you’re going to be in trouble. Lead bullets aren’t exceptionally digestible. This topic is consistently WAY overblown.

 

[fwafwow]

Sorry I missed this fiasco. (Well, maybe not.)

• The 4 studies absolutely and without question found direct correlation.

I find many people read right over documents and points - your responses lead me to believe you had done the same. I posted the studies. Of course I read them. In fact, I am one of the few people that actually provided more the wild opinion.

The above demonstrate (at least to me) that you skipped over post #174 by @Bluefish. If one doesn't know the difference between correlation and causation, you will not get as much from reading any studies. https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

(And I acknowledge I'm now replying to a "Guest" - not sure what happened.)

 

[fngTony]

@fngTony please feel free to lock this thread if you see fit. I am super happy with the information and respectful discussion in the first ⅔ of it, and hope it can be a good source of info for people who are interested in figuring out what the real risks of lead are or are not. I haven't seen this all gathered together and evaluated this way anywhere else on the Internet, and would love to have this not turn into another 30+ page pissing match and hot dog measuring contest that adds nothing to the original topic.

I will take a look at it after work and consider unlocking it. Maybe it just needs some time to settle down?

***open for business, as you said it’s a good source of information condensed into a thread. Let’s keep it productive.

 

[Dave C.]

@fngTony please feel free to lock this thread if you see fit. I am super happy with the information and respectful discussion in the first ⅔ of it, and hope it can be a good source of info for people who are interested in figuring out what the real risks of lead are or are not. I haven't seen this all gathered together and evaluated this way anywhere else on the Internet, and would love to have this not turn into another 30+ page pissing match and hot dog measuring contest that adds nothing to the original topic.

Why? Is Rokslide the new Fakebook?

 

[eric1115]

Why? Is Rokslide the new Fakebook?

Friend, every one of your dozen posts in this thread insults, dismisses, or trolls anyone who disagrees with you. At best, that is done in an attempt to make a semi-relevant point. Most of the 12 are straight pot-stirring and trolling for a reaction. No one "started it" by being disrespectful to you first.

You're not the only one in this thread doing it, but there's nobody doing it worse than you.

I'd encourage you to read this. It's what you signed up for a decade ago.

Rokslide Forum Rules & Etiquette

Welcome to the Rokslide Forums, The Rokslide forums are all about sharing information and communicating with others in a positive, upbeat atmosphere. Our forum posting rules are very simple: no whining, crying, sobbing, sniveling, sulking, bickering, slandering, name-calling, complaining, smart...

rokslide.com

 

[Southern Lights]

The point they’re likely making is it’s WELL KNOWN that if you eat a chunk of lead it will pass through and be expelled out the old shoot. Your body isn’t dissolving and absorbing a lead bullet anymore than it would a rock you ate. Now factor in the chunks of lead you may eat in game meat are 1. small and 2. not a daily occurrence the risk of increased blood lead levels is nill. So no harm done in eating a lead bullet fragment. No one is likely arguing eating lead is good for you.

Now, if you’re eating or breathing lead dust or lead paint which is highly digestible you’re going to be in trouble. Lead bullets aren’t exceptionally digestible. This topic is consistently WAY overblown.

Again I state there are two primary lead contamination areas hunters need to think about:

1) Lead in game meat. (low)
2) Lead in primers. (high)

Lead in primers is by far the bigger issue and likely where most lead exposure will happen. It is in a form that can be easily absorbed and many shooters handling spent cases, etc. are doing it. If I could source lead free primers here I'd have switched already. That would be a good place for shooters to start if they are concerned with lead is to get rid of the primer residue exposure.

Lead in meat is lower exposure risk, but I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to eat it and neither is anyone else if they know it's present in their food.

The main issue I have had with lead bullets is the amount of meat I need to throw out due to damaged tissue and likely lead presence. So again I say, if I have an alternative that doesn't use lead why would I not want to try it?

EDIT: Fiocchi makes lead free primers and I see CCI is doing it as well. I use some of the Fiocchi lead free 223 ammo with my kids as I don't want them handling lead residue. If you are in the US, you can probably source lead free primers for reloading and it would eliminate major lead exposure risk for shooters.

 

[Dave C.]

Friend, every one of your dozen posts in this thread insults, dismisses, or trolls anyone who disagrees with you. At best, that is done in an attempt to make a semi-relevant point. Most of the 12 are straight pot-stirring and trolling for a reaction. No one "started it" by being disrespectful to you first.

You're not the only one in this thread doing it, but there's nobody doing it worse than you.

I'd encourage you to read this. It's what you signed up for a decade ago.

Rokslide Forum Rules & Etiquette

Welcome to the Rokslide Forums, The Rokslide forums are all about sharing information and communicating with others in a positive, upbeat atmosphere. Our forum posting rules are very simple: no whining, crying, sobbing, sniveling, sulking, bickering, slandering, name-calling, complaining, smart...

rokslide.com

Friend, I'd encourage you to read this. It's what you signed up for when you became a U.S. citizen.

The 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

constitutioncenter.org

 

[eric1115]

Friend, I'd encourage you to read this. It's what you signed up for when you became a U.S. citizen.

The 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

constitutioncenter.org

Do you have any public-ish places you hang out regularly in person? A small bar, coffee shop, small church, bowling alley, gun store, etc that has a group of regulars?

If yes, what do you do if someone comes in and brashly, aggressively inserts themselves into a conversation you're having as a group? I guess I'm making an assumption that you're more civil in person with your friends and acquaintances than you've been here, and there are places where you're part of a group that deals with each other respectfully.

When I'm in a conversation as a group and someone acts the way you have here, it's tough. We can ask him to be less disrespectful (as was done here). We can decide to end the conversation if the disruption is bad enough (or table it until we're in a setting without the counterproductive interjections). That is analogous to closing the thread. If it goes far enough (loud enough, disruptive enough, etc) a bar owner has the right to ask him to leave, same as you'll get banned or suspended from a public forum for belligerently ignoring the forum rules you agreed to.

If that guy, as he's being escorted out after crashing your conversation and insulting the other participants, starts yelling about his 1st Amendment rights being infringed upon by the bar owner, you're going to roll your eyes, right?